F-35 Purchase: Lies, mismanagement, and manipulation

fuji

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Canada's Auditor General has concluded that the Conservatives and the Ministry of Defense grossly misled Canadians about the costs of the F-35 procurement, lied to Parliament, and provided deceptive numbers.

-- The requirements were rigged to make the F-35 the only real contender

-- The Ministry knew about delays and cost over-runs but did NOT include that information in briefings to Parliament

-- In fact, the briefings given to Parliament contradicted what they knew--they lied to Parliament about the F-35 costs

-- The government exaggerated the benefits of spin-off economic activity, promoting only the most optimistic scenarios

-- Cost estimates were made without full information, and without any attempt to get full information

-- Management of the project was transferred away from the Ministry of Defense to an inappropriate department, Public Works

-- Oversight of the project and governance was sorely lacking and bungled

In short, the Conservatives failed to manage the project, lied about it, and manipulated the results to rig the process.

The only remaining question--should the failure be chalked up to their incompetence? Or was it malicious? Were they so hell bent on signing Canada up to expensive overseas military adventures that they didn't care what it cost the taxpayer?

http://www.oag-bvg.gc.ca/internet/English/parl_oag_201204_02_e_36466.html
 

Big Sleazy

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It's a gift to the MIC via monetary kickback to the Conservative Party. Same thing with those shitty subs we bought that don't work. And then we have to borrow the money from our Central Bank and go deeper in debt. Force austerity measures on the population. Slide us deeper into recession and just call it business as usual. Politicians, the MIC, and the Banksters should be removed from society. We would all be better off without them !

BS
 

wigglee

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Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
 

dcbogey

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Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
When the alternative is what we have now, doubt it.

Any one know the betting line on whether the F-35s are actually purchased or not? I'm almost willing to bet they are not.
 

MattRoxx

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It's a gift to the MIC via monetary kickback to the Conservative Party. Same thing with those shitty subs we bought that don't work. And then we have to borrow the money from our Central Bank and go deeper in debt. Force austerity measures on the population. Slide us deeper into recession and just call it business as usual. Politicians, the MIC, and the Banksters should be removed from society. We would all be better off without them !

BS
Cutting 19,200 jobs to funnel money to the USA to build these jets seems less like national defense and more like treason.

When the alternative is what we have now, doubt it.

Any one know the betting line on whether the F-35s are actually purchased or not? I'm almost willing to bet they are not.
They won't even be ready for delivery until 2020.
From wiki:
Canada's initial participation in the JSF project required a US$10 million investment from DND to be an "informed partner" during the evaluation process. Once Lockheed Martin was selected as the primary contractor for the JSF project, Canada elected to become a level-three participant (along with Norway, Denmark, Turkey, and Australia) in the JSF project. An additional US$100 million from DND over 10 years and another $50 million from IC were dedicated in 2002, making Canada an early participant in the JSF project.[1][2]
On 16 July 2010, Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government announced that it intended to procure 65 F-35s to replace the existing 80 McDonnell Douglas CF-18 Hornets for C$16 billion (with all ancillary costs included) with deliveries planned for 2016. The stated intention of the government was to sign a sole-sourced, untendered contract with Lockheed Martin. This, combined with the government's refusal to provide detailed costing of the procurement became one of the major causes of the finding of contempt of Parliament and the subsequent defeat of the Conservative government through a non-confidence vote on 25 March 2011. This directly led to the F-35 purchase becoming an issue in the Canadian 2011 federal election. The election resulted in a Conservative majority government.[3][4][5][6][7]
The Government of Canada has only stated an intention to purchase the F-35 and that a contract would not be signed until at least 2013. If the Government of Canada were to decide not to proceed with the contract there would be no cancellation fees, although Canadian aerospace contractors might lose future F-35-related contracts as a resul
So it looks like we're in for $160 million so far, with these phantom jets still just a gleam in Harper and MacKay's eyes.
Whatever happens the kickbacks will keep coming to the Conservatives for at least the next decade.

wigglee said:
Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
It's not incompetence. It is most certainly corruption.
 

MattRoxx

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A terrible consequence of the radical spending, corruption and policy of misinformation and secrecy being perpetrated by the so-called Conservative party, is that there will be people who identify themselves as conservative and therefore engage in mental gymnastics to try and justify all this.
 

rld

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Cutting 19,200 jobs to funnel money to the USA to build these jets seems less like national defense and more like treason.

They won't even be ready for delivery until 2020.
From wiki:

So it looks like we're in for $160 million so far, with these phantom jets still just a gleam in Harper and MacKay's eyes.
Whatever happens the kickbacks will keep coming to the Conservatives for at least the next decade.

It's not incompetence. It is most certainly corruption.
do you think $160 million is a lot for this kind of platform?

Is there some evidence of kickbacks?
 

fuji

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do you think $160 million is a lot for this kind of platform?

Is there some evidence of kickbacks?
$160 million is a lot when the government was telling Parliament and the public that it would only cost $75 million, despite knowing it would actually be so much more.
 

fuji

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This is the smoking gun, from the A-G's report.

Total 20-year costs National Defense used for decision making June 2010: $25,120 million

Total 20-year costs in National Defense's public response to Parliamentary Budget Officer’s report March 2011: $14,700 million

How this does not lead to criminal charges for lying to Parliament I don't know.
 

FAST

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Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
Yep, the ontario liberals.

FAST
 

james t kirk

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Is there any level of incompetence, waste and corruption that would actually wake up the Canadian people enough to turf this gov't?
Interesting you should say that.....

I was just thinking today about Adscam and how it completely and utterly destroyed the liberal party of Canada at the Federal level. Then cons under Harper and McKay flogged it to death and the Canadian people decimated the liberals, even though the actual extent of adscam was never really determined.

Adscam is nothing in comarison to the F35 fiasco and yet I highly doubt that the Canadian people will give a fuck.
 

CapitalGuy

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Adscam is nothing in comarison to the F35 fiasco and yet I highly doubt that the Canadian people will give a fuck.
There is simply no viable alternative to the Cons right now. The Liberals are broke and in disarray. The Dippers, regardless of current polls and the Quebec situation, will never be voted in Federally (I guess we should all thank Bob Rae, in that sense). The next election should be fun: Quebec will be a wash, with the NDP taking a major (major) reduction in seats there, and the other 3 parties splitting the rest. Half of Canadians now live in Western Canada, the heartland of conservatism for the most part. Ontario will decide the outcome, but with no effective Liberal party and awful memories of Rae's legacy, who else can they vote for but Harper??
 

wigglee

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There is simply no viable alternative to the Cons right now. The Liberals are broke and in disarray. The Dippers, regardless of current polls and the Quebec situation, will never be voted in Federally (I guess we should all thank Bob Rae, in that sense). The next election should be fun: Quebec will be a wash, with the NDP taking a major (major) reduction in seats there, and the other 3 parties splitting the rest. Half of Canadians now live in Western Canada, the heartland of conservatism for the most part. Ontario will decide the outcome, but with no effective Liberal party and awful memories of Rae's legacy, who else can they vote for but Harper??
The Rae legacy myth needs to be examined, not just repeated as fact:

[h=2]Bob Rae: A Hijacked Legacy[/h]By Ryan McGreal
Published November 24, 2006
[h=3]Politics - Federal[/h]Received wisdom in political circles is that Bob Rae, a major contender for the Liberal leadership, is weighed down by the legacy of his former premiership of Ontario under the NDP banner. The common argument is that his legacy of recession, 'reckless spending', and Rae Days will scutter any attempt to become Canada's next Prime Minister.
However, a look at his actual record in office, rather than the rhetoric that surrounds it, paints a much different picture.
The Ontario NDP is routinely crucified for their star-crossed 1990-1995 term, but the cards were stacked against them from the start. Just as Bob Rae came into power, the Bank of Canada was jacking the Canadian prime rate six points higher than the US prime, ostensibly to fight inflation but really to shock-treat Canada into the FTA.
This had a number of mutually reinforcing effects:
  • Companies had to pay more for debts, so they stopped investing in new infrastructure and cut costs;
  • Consumers had to pay more for debts, so they had less disposable income and stopped making large purchases;
  • This slowed activity meant lost profits for companies, which led them to lay off workers;
  • Those layoffs reduced consumer demand still further;
  • The high interest rates attracted US currency speculators, who drove up the Canadian dollar and made our exports more expensive, which hurt revenue still more and threw more people out of work;
  • At the same time, the government saw its tax revenue go down, its program spending (for welfare, health care, subsidized housing, etc.) go up, and its debt servicing costs go up; and
  • The federal government, trying to stop its own bleeding, cut transfer payments to the provinces, which hurt them even more just as they needed extra cash.
[h=3]A Made-in-Canada Disaster[/h]It was a total disaster. The 'made-in-Canada' recession threw a million people out of work, decimated the manufacturing sector, and left the Rae government deep in the red. They were attacked viciously in the media for running deficits over which they had no control.
The deficit ballooned into the ten billions, and the Rae government tried some Keynesian counter-cyclical spending to soften the blow for families being thrown out of work, which of course made the deficit worse (but what else could they have done?).
After the worst of the recession was over, the NDP set about reducing the deficit, albeit without eliminating public sector jobs. Rae went to the unions and asked them to agree to renegotiate their contracts to save money. He called it a "social contract".
The unions flat-out refused to bargain, so the Rae government unilaterally implemented the changes they were hoping to make. No one lost their jobs, but the dreaded "Rae Days" came into effect, in which public sector workers were required to take occasional unpaid days off.
At the same time, the economy was recovering and the deficit was falling, but the damage was done. Vilified from all sides for their efforts to soften the recession and balance the books without laying anyone off, the NDP were almost universally hated.
[h=3]Fiscally Responsible Tories?[/h]In 1995, when the NDP lost to the Mike Harris Tories and their "Common Sense Revolution", the deficit was falling steadily. Harris, an economic conservative and therefore "fiscally responsible", immediately reversed the downward trend in Ontario's deficit by implementing a series of tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefited corporations and the rich.
The Harris Conservatives also laid off public sector workers, cut welfare payments by over 20 percent, reduced funding for education, health care, and the environment, and dumped cyclical expenditures onto cities with the notorious Omnibus bill.
Over the next eight years, a period of non-stop economic growth in Ontario, the Tories managed to balance the books only by selling off a chunk of Ontario Hydro and then selling off Hwy 407 ETR.
Now, any economist will tell you that if you have to sell off capital assets to balance your budget, you're not running a sustainable operation.
By the time the Tories handed power to the McGuinty Liberals, Ontario's deficit stood at $5.5 billion, comparing rather poorly with the deficit eight years earlier, when the NDP were trying to bring Ontario out of the worst recession since the Great Depression.
(The size of the deficit was not revealed until after the Liberals had taken over the government. Prior to the election, the Tories had claimed the deficit was in the $1-2 billion range.)
Even taking inflation and population growth into account, that's a heck of an accomplishment for a party that is supposed to stand for "conservative" - i.e. prudent - fiscal management.
[h=3]A Hijacked Legacy[/h]It's a shame that the legacy of the Rae government has been so hijacked by the business-friendly newsmedia that Ontarians can't see just how good a choice Bob Rae would make as Prime Minister. He's smart, savvy, experienced, pragmatic, socially conscious, and has a very good track record. History has been quite unfair to him.
Far from the dogmatic leftist caricature that dogs him, Bob Rae was actually a very competent 'Liberal' Premier. He would make a very competent Liberal Prime Minister as well
 

shack

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The only remaining question--should the failure be chalked up to their incompetence? Or was it malicious? Were they so hell bent on signing Canada up to expensive overseas military adventures that they didn't care what it cost the taxpayer?
Majority or not Harper has always governed by the credo of "I can do whatever the fuck I want. If you don't like it try and turf me".

Unfortunately there are so many Westerners who think there is only one party in Canada, he won't lose until the left unites.
 

CapitalGuy

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Wow, people are trying to paint Rae as a victim, not a Great Ruiner of Ontario's economy. Beyond belief. And stupid. His legacy is as advertised - he wrought financial havoc on Ontario. Keep trying though - maybe you will convince some Green Party types to swing their votes to Rae. Wow.
 

rld

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I remember the Rae years just fine without the help of revisionist history. They sucked, he sucked.

Thought Kormos was okay though.
 

fuji

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Wow, people are trying to paint Rae as a victim, not a Great Ruiner of Ontario's economy. Beyond belief. And stupid. His legacy is as advertised - he wrought financial havoc on Ontario. Keep trying though - maybe you will convince some Green Party types to swing their votes to Rae. Wow.
The Government of Ontario does not have the power to cause a world-wide recession. Use your bloody head. "Great Ruiner of Ontario's economy" what a load of bullshit. Is Rae also responsible for the riots in the UK and the general worldwide recession that occurred at that time? The Ontario government neither has a magic wand to wave that can get us out of recessions, nor one that would put us into recessions. Its actions MAY have significant long-term consequences, but in the short term there is bugger all they can do to change the course of the economy one way or another. The health of Ontario's economy is overwhelmingly determined by the health of the world economy, and in particular the health of our major trading partners. When they go into the toilet so do we.

It's just bloody retarded what people will say for their petty little partisan reasons. Try using your head instead.
 

MattRoxx

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I'd rather have the so-called "broke and in disarray" LIberal party in charge than the treasonous and criminal Con artists.

The health of Ontario's economy is overwhelmingly determined by the health of the world economy, and in particular the health of our major trading partners. When they go into the toilet so do we.

It's just bloody retarded what people will say for their petty little partisan reasons. Try using your head instead.
But talking about Rae has deflected criticism of the F-35 purchase!

Op/ed piece in the Star this week by Richard Gwynn with a similar opinion on the Feds.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...-harper-s-role-in-canada-s-success-is-limited

Prime Minister Harper’s role in Canada’s success is limited

Canada is indeed in excellent shape these days, most certainly so when compared to almost all other “advanced democracies.” And we aren’t at all badly governed, although I would put Norway well ahead of us.

But none of this has anything to do with the budget or with the Harper government’s financial management since it gained power in 2006, nor with Harper himself.

Instead, the causes of our contemporary complacency are threefold:

• Mostly, it’s because we’re enjoying a commodities boom (as are Australia and Brazil), thanks to the almost limitless demand created by the headlong economic growth in China, India and elsewhere. Even an ineptly governed economy could do well, so long as it has spare rocks and logs and oil,

• Our national finances were put into good shape before Harper gained office. This was done in the 1990s by then finance minister Paul Martin. Keeping our financial books in order has now become part of Canadians’ national identity, sort of in the way our health-care system has long been, but may not be that much longer.

• Lastly, we owe a lot to our famously “boring” banks. In fact, they owe a lot back to the rest of us: In exchange for quite strict regulation they enjoy protection from foreign competition and permission to operate as — effectively — a cartel. As is all that really matters, they never go bankrupt.

The consequence of all of this is that all of our stars are now in a row, pretty much as they were for us after World War II when the Cold War created a huge demand for our resources at the same time that many of our competitors had been left bomb-shattered and bankrupt.

The Harper government’s main contribution has been to not muck things up. It has erred: Had it not cut the GST in order to win votes, our budget would just about be in balance already. It has also sometimes done well, deserving high marks for its current attempt — the first in ages — to reform the badly constipated immigration system it inherited from its predecessors.
 

rld

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I'd rather have the so-called "broke and in disarray" LIberal party in charge than the treasonous and criminal Con artists.

But talking about Rae has deflected criticism of the F-35 purchase!

Op/ed piece in the Star this week by Richard Gwynn with a similar opinion on the Feds.
Do you agree that the Harper government has sometimes done well?
 

MattRoxx

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Back to the F-35s: it isn't only Canada that's been bamboozled by the US buzzwords about air supremacy and "interoperability". Japan and Australia are also having second thoughts about purchasing their commitment to these financial albatrosses. As for Britain:
Britain has deferred to 2015 a firm commitment on how many Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets it will buy, adding to uncertainties over the multinational program which has recently been questioned in the U.S. Congress.

"We will not make final decisions on the overall number of aircraft we will order before the next planned Strategic Defence Review (in 2015)," a Ministry of Defence MoD spokeswoman said on Tuesday, adding an initial order would be placed next year.

The F-35 project ranks as the most expensive U.S. arms program but has been criticized for cost overruns at a time when next week's U.S. fiscal 2013 budget plan is expected to postpone funding for 179 warplanes until after 2017 -- a move that has prompted international partners to question their own procurement plans.

Britain in 2001 committed to buy 138 of the multirole stealth aircraft, but the current coalition government in its 2010 defense review said it would cut the number of F-35s it had on order without saying by how many.

Britain has so far placed a firm order with Lockheed for three F-35 test and evaluation aircraft costing $632 million.
These jets should have been named 'Mirage' because so far they can be inferred but cannot be seen.
 
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