I agree with everything you said (you can see that in my posts in related threads), but the point I was making here is that people are too quick to jump and judge these guys when they are not the authentic 'gangbangers' that they are trying to be. This 'documentary' is Hollywood.
The real Toronto
- Thread starter HEYHEY
- Start date
Sorry, but if they want out - move somewhere else. Crying about friends and family is just a copout. There is no reason an able-bodied young male can't move to Alberta and get a decent paying job tomorrow. If you have to, send money back home - Newfies (and others) have been doing it for years. And no, the gangs won't necessarily find you in Alberta - they are there but if you keep your nose clean there is no reason to deal with them.True, most of those guys may be posers, but a poser with a loaded gun is a different story. A simple catalyst to escalate a situation is what'll make that poser into a gang banger. I used to play ball on Chalkfarm and Jane with these types and it's tough for some to get out of that environment. True, the posers are there but some of them do want to get out and find a better life usually because of family. Looking at part 2 (5:30 minutes in), there's that guy who is rapping a bit but then gets disturbed by his 'gang friends' who start brandishing their guns to the camera to get their moments of fame for the vid. With all that pressure for them to fit in, it's difficult for one guy to try to become a positive contributing member of society. True, it's hard to see hope when looking at these guys in the video, and you joke around that the youth programs out there are simply not helping, but that's just one piece of the puzzle.
Sorry, but if they want out - move somewhere else. Crying about friends and family is just a copout. There is no reason an able-bodied young male can't move to Alberta and get a decent paying job tomorrow. If you have to, send money back home - Newfies (and others) have been doing it for years. And no, the gangs won't necessarily find you in Alberta - they are there but if you keep your nose clean there is no reason to deal with them.
Just like that? It's so easy? Your life circumstance probably made this a constant and viable option for you, but that does not mean it is the same for all.
I see what Oddsox is suggesting but I think that's tough to do as a teenager with no skills (life or marketable ones) or start up money.
Of course. But that is taking for granted/into consideration that viable options exist.I see what Oddsox is suggesting but I think that's tough to do as a teenager with no skills (life or marketable ones) or start up money.
When I said "See" I just meant I understand what he is suggesting but the rest of my sentence was pointing out that what he (oddsox) suggested was difficult to say the least.Of course. But that is taking for granted/into consideration that viable options exist.
His argument is a variant on the "pull up their bootstrap" theme which some sociologists will disagree with as a feasible solution.
Agreed.When I said "See" I just meant I understand what he is suggesting but the rest of my sentence was pointing out that what he (oddsox) suggested was difficult to say the least.
His argument is a variant on the "pull up their bootstrap" theme which some sociologists will disagree with as a feasible solution.
Don't much care what the sociologists say - they never worked for a living anyhow. I did it when I was less than twenty - it's not a big deal to hop on a bus and get to Calgary (I hitchhiked but probably not doable these days). I know lots of Newfoundlanders who maintain a family at home, work in Fort Mac or the bush for 60 days or so and then go back home for a two week break, and then do it again. If they can do it, why can't some young dude on Jane Street do it?When I said "See" I just meant I understand what he is suggesting but the rest of my sentence was pointing out that what he (oddsox) suggested was difficult to say the least.
His argument is a variant on the "pull up their bootstrap" theme which some sociologists will disagree with as a feasible solution.
So go tell and show them how easy it is. Your solution is nothing more than a shallow opinion grounded in 'I did it'.Don't much care what the sociologists say - they never worked for a living anyhow. I did it when I was less than twenty - it's not a big deal to hop on a bus and get to Calgary (I hitchhiked but probably not doable these days). I know lots of Newfoundlanders who maintain a family at home, work in Fort Mac or the bush for 60 days or so and then go back home for a two week break, and then do it again. If they can do it, why can't some young dude on Jane Street do it?
Sorry, but there always options to sitting on your ass. Viable? WTF, if you're a man you will work for what you get, not take it from the friggin' government. (women too - but I don't think that's as much of an issue).Of course. But that is taking for granted/into consideration that viable options exist.
Speaking of women, I have one friend who grew up with the Outlaws and has lots of scary stories to tell - but she is raising her daughter on her own and holding down a full-time job with a construction company - and kicking most of the men's asses while she does it. I have another friend (actually family) who got into the family way at 18 or so, = but is doing a great job of holding down full-time work (Timmies - but you gotta start somewhere) and putting herself through college at the same time as she is raising an 18-month old child.
Huh? What makes its so hard? I don't get your point.So go tell and show them how easy it is. Your solution is nothing more than a shallow opinion grounded in 'I did it'.
My point is that you should propose your idea through City Coucil and/or the the Provincial and Federal governments. It's a slam-dunk that they will make it mandate. An 'air-tight' solution like yours will work with you spear-heading its implementation.Huh? What makes its so hard? I don't get your point.
Ignorant comment.Don't much care what the sociologists say - they never worked for a living anyhow. I did it when I was less than twenty - it's not a big deal to hop on a bus and get to Calgary (I hitchhiked but probably not doable these days). I know lots of Newfoundlanders who maintain a family at home, work in Fort Mac or the bush for 60 days or so and then go back home for a two week break, and then do it again. If they can do it, why can't some young dude on Jane Street do it?
Sorry, government? I said nothing about government - their nanny state crap caused this shit. I just want people to stand up and figure out how to make a life for themselves.My point is that you should propose your idea through City Coucil and/or the the Provincial and Federal governments. It's a slam-dunk that they will make it mandate. An 'air-tight' solution like yours will work with you spear-heading its implementation.
Even better. Let the orator deliver the message.Sorry, government? I said nothing about government - their nanny state crap caused this shit. I just want people to stand up and figure out how to make a life for themselves.
Here you are denouncing the opinion of a field that specializes in researching the topic (social interaction and integration); offering solutions that merely reflect your existence. maybe I should start offering medical or legal advice.... sheesh.
Because you're discounting a field of study which addresses topics like these in favour of your opinion. A large number of sociologists 'work' for a living.Why?
You do realize that just about anybody who is currently fit and unemployed can walk into ServiceOntario and get a free bus ticket to Alberta along with spending money? Ontario is more than happy to move deadbeats somewhere else just to make the local stats look better.
Of course a job can be found, but what kind of job are we talking about? I'm all for 'doing what it takes' but when a certain peoples are relegated to work that disenables them to achieve 'a future' then I don't blame them for feeling/acting hopeless. I don't condone their actions (e.g. gangbanging or 'milking the system') but I can understand where they are coming from.If you say so. I'm pretty much done with this discussion - I don't see why an able-bodied young man in this city cannot find work somewhere in this country with some effort. Not sure what the hell sociologists have to do with getting a job.
I grew up in a situation that could have led me down the road of hopelessness, but I steered away and have (and continue to) followed a path similar to the one you have proposed. However, I credit that to personal traits. I have not only grew up with individuals who have 'gone down the wrong path', but have continued to make a point of talking to young people who can be featured in 'Real Toronto II' to hear their side. You'd be surprised at the answers that I get when I ask them about thier future. While many have aspirations, you can see they sifle them with the realities they face.
Here's some sociolgy that may begin to explain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre..._.28Field.29_and_the_Subjective_.28Habitus.29
