The Liberals promised during the election that the new Ontario plan would NOT be run at arms length but would instead "invest" in projects at the direction of the Ontario government.
Is the proposed Ontario Retirement Pension Plan a good idea?
- Thread starter probyn
- Start date
Don't employees and employers contribute most of the tax paid by tax payers?
Some lower income seniors have income security provided by the federal GIS, this is reduced or eliminated if there are other sources of income reported on a tax return. If they lose federal money because they have income from this new Ontario pension where is the income security?
In the meantime a new plan put in place by government will allow the not so low income government employees to opt out while looking forward to their lucrative pensions.
Governments only spend wealth,...they do not creat it
Mind you, the general public guarantee's the civil servant pension plans,...but the government does NOT, for the general public,...only seems fair,...
FAST
A little help for YA,...pension plans have invest in businesses, otherwise the plans could never keep up with the retirees.
Mind you, the general public guarantee's the civil servant pension plans,...but the government does NOT, for the general public,...only seems fair,...
FAST
Madoff made $17b of investors money disappear, got nearly 10 years of jail time per billion and we are warned about guys like him. The Ontario government made a billion of our tax dollars disappear, nobody is doing any time and they tell us that giving them more is a good thing.
If they get the returns of the big pension plans, I'd be happy to have my money to be babysat too.
Because that would be retarded (okay, I get your point - they are politicians).
And I might not recall accurately but I believe that the big funds were hit but the collapse but not badly. I even seem to believe that some funds kept growing through it, just not at the rate that they were growing at good times.
Of some useless deadweight bloodsuckers in the financial industry, yes. They can get some real jobs, producing real value.
Not sure what you mean.Of some useless deadweight bloodsuckers in the financial industry, yes. They can get some real jobs, producing real value.
The Liberals came up with this plan to buy votes on Bay Street with your money: hundreds, if not thousands of investment bankers will make a lot of coin off of the management fees for this new "pension" plan.
That's exactly right. People are saving less than ever and the government is trying to avoid a financial catastrophe of having a bunch of senior citizens living below the poverty line.
IMO, this is a VERY good idea. Now they just need it to expand across provincial boundaries so we can get a national pension plan like the Netherelands (who have the best pension plan in the world, bar none).
Investing as a pool is more efficient than individual investors. The sell side will overall have less fees.
Think it depends on how much the average person stands to collect.
If it means a person can retire before pushing themselves to the point of injury or illness it might be cheaper than the health costs.
I am not saying retired people who are underpaid will become criminals but just as an illustration...... each prisoner costs us over 100k per year not including all the costs before the person ends up in prison.
So I think it is important to try and predict thr societal cost and compare it to the tax cost of the pension plan.
Unfortunately I don't have that data.
People are notorious lying bad at saving money so forced savings might be a good thing. But I think even worse is the need to teach people they don't need to go into debt for frivolous things.
If it means a person can retire before pushing themselves to the point of injury or illness it might be cheaper than the health costs.
I am not saying retired people who are underpaid will become criminals but just as an illustration...... each prisoner costs us over 100k per year not including all the costs before the person ends up in prison.
So I think it is important to try and predict thr societal cost and compare it to the tax cost of the pension plan.
Unfortunately I don't have that data.
People are notorious lying bad at saving money so forced savings might be a good thing. But I think even worse is the need to teach people they don't need to go into debt for frivolous things.
So why does this Liberal money grab exclude those who would need additional money the most in retirement - those who earn the least today?
Instead, this program all but guarantees that MORE seniors will live below the poverty line - because even MORE people will be unable to save money for their own retirement with the inflationary effects of this "benefit".
Nice to make blanket claims. Would be better if they were based in fact.
Umm, maybe because they can already barely pay their rent and are already below the poverty line? Duh.
Really, you're going to attempt (and fail) to discredit the plan because the people at the very bottom of the ladder can't afford it? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.
The reality is those people will likely be on social welfare regardless. The aim is to get the vast group of people who aren't rich and aren't poor but who are not saving enough for retirement.
The people who think this is a bad idea are usually either: A) big C conservatives who wouldn't accept a Liberal plan even if it had been dreamed up by a Conservative; and B) are probably doing better than average when it comes to retirement savings anyways. So in either case, Fuck Everybody Else.
Could there be a better plan? Sure. But I haven't seen it. Especially not from the Conservatives (who basically say save yourself because you're on your own--nice "leadership").
Thanks for not paying attention to what I said, which was that it does not benefit those who will need it most.
More like a way to buy votes.
However, there are many companies where the non-unionized office staff do not have the pension plans of their field counterparts or the owners. I suppose those employees might be happy to have a little extra retirement money.
