Do you support the ban of logos referring to natives in sports clubs?
- Thread starter Zaibetter
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also, in a league with mostly black guys, like the NBA, there should be a team called "Crackers"
Assimilation does not mean a borg like we all become one
But usual scenario (continued from my first example) is an immigrant from overseas comes to Canada, and their kids become more Canadian
Even if bilingual you can see Chinese & Indians and other groups "fit in"
The ones who fail are those who steadfastly cling to old ways and stay in their own ethnic groups (eg a group of Indians living on reservation lands in the past, complaining about land rights from 500 years ago)
Assimilation definitely does not mean you must throw away your heritage UNLESS your belief does not fit into Canadian society (eg Sharia laws)
Fair enough as I did take the analogy at face value
But let's be honest here; certain Indians have gone out of there way to basically flout the law. Selling gas and tobacco illegally. Abusing HST rights. Crying about murders but when RCMP show up not wanting to discuss the cases.
You mentioned suicide and abuse issues previously but my problem is these are self inflicted pains. No different than 1970s era Viet Buddhists who immolate themselves in fire simply trying to score a point with the media.
You complain about access to education but this is not a race issue; even a lily white person living up that far north has no access to good schools (they combine grades since communities are so small) and no access to things we take for granted (like cell phones and high speed internet)
Some people are content to play the victim card and wait for a handout
Some people like to pretend they were never victims
Some people were victims, remember the past, but move on to live their lives
Indians need to stop being #1 and move on to #3
Again as I posted to other commentator, it is unfortunate their grandparents suffered abuse (heck mine did too, ever hear of WW2?) but living your entire life worrying about past is absurd
Oh and for the record, I couldn't care less about the nickname Indians or whatever people of Ohio think
But bands of Indians in Ontario claiming that what happens in another country is oppressive to them here makes no sense
Can you imagine blacks in Canada trying to equate what happens in US to what happens here? We would laugh them off the stage
There use to be a team call the "Crusaders". If that happened to-day, there would probably be riots in the streets and maybe even suicide bombings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Crusaders
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Crusaders
See this is weird to me. While not offensive in the way the logo or 'redskins' are, its just corny and lame to have a name like that. I don't think "black hawks' as a team name gets people up in arms, or makes anyone loose sleep, but the irony of rooting for a team named after of people your people have shat on for 400 years is pretty bad.
Isn't it time we moved on from that?
I think there are a couple points I would like to make
1) no those kids are not making a point like the monks. I think this is just you minimizing and dismissing it with no real proof.
2) you keep using the word SOME..... I would agree there probably are some natives who behave the way you suggest but I really need to see some numbers and then cross reference it to the cost of say whites on social security etc. My point is that if we are to have this discussion we really need to go beyond our opinions. I'm open to change mine if presented with proper data.
I need to clarify my point on access..... you are being too literal. If you take a look at statistics blacks and natives are more likely to be poor and poorly educated. Those two strikes alone make it difficult to succeed. Then you have to add on top of that prejudice that they face. The prejudice is real, I found the experiement in which identical resumes were sent out where the only difference was the name and the "black" sounding name got less call backs.
You keep making the mistake.... the other poster mentioned it but it wasn't in the context of an excuse.
What do you think happens to a generation if all the native kids are taken to residential schools? How do they learn to raise kids when they are abused? This is not an excuse but an explanation why things are so fucked up. A huge deterimination in who a person turns out is parenting. I listened to a person speak about residential schools and they talked about never being hugged, nurtured etc so when they raised their own kids it was very tough for them.
Please don't take this as an insult but I think you can't fathom..... the scars these people have and the hardships that they have. Again, not an excuse but an explanation as to why they haven't caught up to white standards of living.
I really think the analogy of a race in which people start at different starting points and face different obstacles is really appropriate.
Canadians are quick to point out how we are not as bad as the states for racism. But racism is alive and well in Canada.
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/london-ontario-was-a-racist-asshole-to-me-152
http://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/opinion-canadas-long-history-of-anti-black-racism
People love these teams . It's not like they are being symbolized in a derogatory way. They are using these names in a way that honours the fighting spirit of aboriginal people. I'm referring to Braves, Indians and Black Hawks, not Chief Wahoo or Redskins ( which are insulting). Do cowboys feel insulted by the Dallas Cowboys? I've seen plenty of natives wearing Blawk Hawks jerseys.
Think the difference between cowboy and indian mascots is that cowboys were not treated like shit and then used as a mascot.
On a very basic level imagine if you were bullied your whole life and all of a sudden the bully wants to "honour" you. How would you feel?
As for "plenty" what number is that exactly? Was it an in depth survey or just your observation? Even if it were a high number it doesn't matter as majority doesn't mean something is right.
Maybe, but really its not for us to decide if natives are offended.
And given the recent and continuing history of racism in this country, we need to listen to them if we want to get past this.
So let me get this straight,...the sole reason sports teams got together and decided to create names for their teams that included mascots based on natives,...was to say,... "we are sorry",...by honoring them.
Even IF that was true,...what would be wrong with that,...???
FAST
Cowboys were treated like shit. They were generally poor, illiterate men who were desperate for work. Many were civil war veterans and many were African-Americans and Hispanics who were looked down upon by the rest of society. The myth of the hero cowboy was created by the movies. http://www.ozy.com/flashback/the-myth-of-the-cowboy-way/34226
Screw liberals and free speech. The government needs to legislate which words can be sued and which can not. We need to bring the book of forbidden words!
White Man: "Hey I know we treated you like shit because we didn't think you should be treated with equality or dignity and respect, but we love to borrow for free, some of your commendable qualities to promote our own sport team of a White Man's game".
Indigenous Guy thinking to himself: (Go fuck yourself).
@ Teejay,
Indigenous People are not like immigrants who mostly came from their own nations outside of Canada, some of them great at one time or another, or which have become greater since initial, mass migrations. Immigrants always have their distinct identities.
The Reservation System seems to have failed in that it doesn't redress past wrongs or restore their independence.
This could be a reason why many have not integrated (I like 'integrate' better than 'assimilate').
Indigenous People are not like immigrants who mostly came from their own nations outside of Canada, some of them great at one time or another, or which have become greater since initial, mass migrations. Immigrants always have their distinct identities.
The Reservation System seems to have failed in that it doesn't redress past wrongs or restore their independence.
This could be a reason why many have not integrated (I like 'integrate' better than 'assimilate').
Wasn't this a way for the natives to be guaranteed land of their own and the ability to maintain their heritage and distinctive society instead of being swallowed up the large masses of the rest of the population? Similar to how the Quebecois are very concerned about maintaining their heritage.
I don't know the history of the negotiations but I would not be surprised if these were some of the things the natives requested.
