Speeding #1 Killer on Highways

[rhuarc29]

Absolutely agree. A pet peeve of mine is a**holes who use merging, exit and HOV lanes (crossing the solid line repeatedly) to pass, especially at excessively high speeds.

YES! I don't understand why cruisers don't camp in those areas and just nail idiot after idiot. The problem with these guys, other than being dangerous (I've regularly seen them drive over the shoulder and cut off actual merging traffic in order to pass a few cars), is that they raise the ire of everyone else on the road. Now you have a bunch of angry people driving home in bumper to bumper traffic. That's not a good recipe for safe driving.

 

[massman]

Speed is a factor in severity, but never the sole cause of an accident. And since almost everyone speeds, speed is almost always a factor in collisions. Therefore, speed is almost always a factor in fatal collisions. For some reason Ontario sees this as causation. You could literally say speed is a factor in ALL collisions, even if the drivers weren't speeding. So if speed is a factor in 100% of fatal collisions, of course it would be the "#1 killer".

But to say so is somewhat disingenuous, and is more akin to pushing a narrative than anything else. Blaming speed is the easy answer. It gives them justification to keep issuing those one quarter of a million speeding tickets every year. Catching people for speeding and proving it is also much easier than catching people for distracted driving, aggressive driving, tail-gating, etc., and proving that. Cracking down on speed allows them to say they're solving the problem. Funny how the problem is never solved, yet we continue pointing the finger at the same culprit. It's the same kind of logic we use in our cities when a high-profile cyclist death occurs. Automatically it's assumed that we need to make our roads safer for our cyclists, rather than convince our cyclists to practice safer riding. And so we spend inordinate amounts of money, re-direct traffic, cause greater congestion...all in the interest of protecting cyclists. Yet it hasn't worked. Hmmm.

Agree. While speeding is likely a contributor and even cause of some fatal crashes, it doesn’t mean that every fatal crash that speeding was involved in was caused by speeding. The only way to estimate the number of crashes where speeding was involved vs those where speeding was not, and show the excess risk of speeders vs non. There may be other confounders, speeders May be slightly more likely to be reckless, to be inexperienced drivers, maybe drunk or high... you get my meaning.

 

[Occasionally]

Of course speed is the #1 killer.

If more people didn't drive like morons, everyone COULD drive at a good clip. However, some people are idiots, lose control, swerving and cutting people off, and going too fast to handle the car..... and then BOOM!

High speed leads to chain reactions, not enough time for drivers to react, and the impact is enough to crumble a car and explode if the gas tank is ruptured.

On the other hand, Yorkdale's parking lot for 1,000s of cars could all get into a car crash. It would be a mess, but it would be all fender benders at low speed so nobody would get hurt or be doing a header through the windshield.

 

[black booty lover]

Then once they’ve got you, they can put your car in the back, impounded!

This is my issue. It should be more than impounded. It should be treated just as dangerous as a DUI. It should be a 1 year suspension, and then having to take course on the ramifications of driving like an asshole. Like the title of thread states, if "speeding is the #1 killer", than why are speeders getting off the hook way easier than drunk drivers?

 

[Promo]

who would you rather be driving behind say on a 401: a bmw driver who's doing 130 and gonna disappear in a minute or an old bag in a little shitty hyundai doing 90 forcing you to change lanes?

1) That question has nothing to do with the point of my original post
2) "old bag in a little shitty hyundai " speaks volumes about your attitude and clearly you are trying to lead my answer.

My answer:
If the old lady is in the right lane and driving safety and predictability - I have no problem with her. If the BMW is driving at 130 km/hr safely and predictability - I have no problem with him.

Stereotyping: Many older people tend to drive in the middle or left lane below the average speed of traffic, but they tend to be predictable - annoying but I can deal with that. Many (not all) BMW drivers tend to be aggressive, don't signal and are prone to weaving/cutting-off and aren't predictable - IMHO more dangerous. In this case I choose the old lady.

 

[AJstar]

Well written. It's a derivative of the valid "guns don't kill" debate.

I would further add:
1) it's speed DIFFERENTIAL that kills. If everyone is doing the same speed (assuming safe road and conditions), than most collisions would be minor. Therefore I have no problem with everyone doing 120-125 on the 407. It's the idiot that is doing 140+ and weaving between cars that I have a serious problem with.

2) Often it's not the speeding car that causes the issue, it's the incompetent driver that pulls in front of the speeder (or truck, etc) without properly checking approaching cars. I see idiots cutting off other cars ALL the time, it's epidemic - often within 1-2 car lengths, no signal, often break as they move into the new lane. UGH!!

3) The real danger on the roads are the aggressive weavers (including on city streets) and/or tailgaters. I realize that people divine left lane and many people don't follow the "common sense rules of the road", but I wish they would limit there aggressive actions to light flashing and if that doesn't work pass on the right when it's safe to do so, then speed away (just don't weave between cars).

Absolutely agree

 

[AJstar]

BMWs are generally a superior road car, yet the number of times I've seen BMWs fishtail on a lane change (traveling too fast and over-correcting) or significantly understeer in a turn goes to show the lack of skill of the drivers. Add the (generally accepted) fact that BMW drivers rarely signal and tend to be aggressive, you have an accident waiting to happen. Not intending to pick on BMW drivers, many are good. if stereotyping, I believe Ranger Rover drivers the worst drivers on the road.

I had a BMW 5 series for a few years & found they have excellent handling with 4 wheel drive. When I tried to push it in lane changes or turns it had almost no roll , so under or over steering never happened.
It goes to driver education & skill level.
So lets dumb down the whole system to the lowest denominator,just make all speed limits 25 kph.
You'll have bikes passing the car with even more collisions & injuries.
Ok, bikes aren't allowed on 400 hwys, but you get my meaning.

 

[sempel]

I had a BMW 5 series for a few years & found they have excellent handling with 4 wheel drive. When I tried to push it in lane changes or turns it had almost no roll , so under or over steering never happened.
It goes to driver education & skill level.
So lets dumb down the whole system to the lowest denominator,just make all speed limits 25 kph.
You'll have bikes passing the car with even more collisions & injuries.
Ok, bikes aren't allowed on 400 hwys, but you get my meaning.

The problem is too many people who shouldn't have passed the exam are passed. I know a bunch of people who recounted certain things that happened during their exam but still somehow were passed.

What I see on the roads is a lack of confidence, no proactivity, limited reaction, and limited awareness.

Confidence means no hesitation - I see drivers looking for a space, they inch forward but don't take the turn when they should, only to then take it last minute and potentially cause an accident.
Young driver's always taught proactive driving. Do things to help avoid potential accidents (like leaving 2 seconds between you and the car ahead).
I see people who don't react properly to the conditions or how others act. Their slow reaction leads to dangerous situations. Awareness is related to this as you can predict a number of things that will take place if you are aware of what's around. I rarely find anyone creeping into my blindspot because I look for people speeding up from behind me when I change lanes.

 

[Promo]

Of course speed is the #1 killer.
If more people didn't drive like morons, everyone COULD drive at a good clip. However, some people are idiots, lose control, swerving and cutting people off, and going too fast to handle the car..... and then BOOM!

Disagree: Just like a gun, speed in of itself does not kill. It's the other items in your list that are the root cause. Greater speed (differential) will compound the damage. E = m(v2-v1)^2

High speed leads to chain reactions, not enough time for drivers to react, and the impact is enough to crumble a car and explode if the gas tank is ruptured.

You can have chain reactions at any speed, it's a function of speed vs distance apart vs reaction time vs outside conditions. More people die in accidents at 50 km/hr than at 100 km/hr per 100k km driven. Gas tanks almost never explode, that's a TV myth.

On the other hand, Yorkdale's parking lot for 1,000s of cars could all get into a car crash. It would be a mess, but it would be all fender benders at low speed so nobody would get hurt or be doing a header through the windshield.

True, speed differential compounds the damage and therefore much less damage occurs at lower differentials, but you can still be hurt even in a parking lot accident.

 

[Promo]

I had a BMW 5 series for a few years & found they have excellent handling with 4 wheel drive. When I tried to push it in lane changes or turns it had almost no roll , so under or over steering never happened.
It goes to driver education & skill level.

I agree, as I stated" the BMW is generally a superior road car" and "lack of driver skill". But a poor or aggressive driver can still fishtail (via overcorrection) or induce understeer as most cars (including BMWs) are designed to understeer at the limits as you have more run-out on the outside of the car then the inside (as you should be as tight to the inside as possible on high speed turns during the second half of the maneuver).

My point was a lot of people who buy BMWs tend to be overconfident and/or aggressive because of their cool performance car and do foolish things. Because there are sooo many BMWs on the road and they are a flashy car, it's more high profile. You can easily stereotype AMG drivers the same way, most drive like dicks. I swear though, only 1 in 5 BMW drivers use their signals.

So lets dumb down the whole system to the lowest denominator,just make all speed limits 25 kph.
You'll have bikes passing the car with even more collisions & injuries.
Ok, bikes aren't allowed on 400 hwys, but you get my meaning.

I indeed get your meaning. ;-) But i'd rather our society require better driver training, mandatory skid school and defensive driving school, greater restrictions on new drivers (whether young drivers or recent immigrants from non-car cultures), better driver exams for people over 60, etc.

 

[Promo]

The problem is too many people who shouldn't have passed the exam are passed. I know a bunch of people who recounted certain things that happened during their exam but still somehow were passed.

What I see on the roads is a lack of confidence, no proactivity, limited reaction, and limited awareness.

Confidence means no hesitation - I see drivers looking for a space, they inch forward but don't take the turn when they should, only to then take it last minute and potentially cause an accident.
Young driver's always taught proactive driving. Do things to help avoid potential accidents (like leaving 2 seconds between you and the car ahead).
I see people who don't react properly to the conditions or how others act. Their slow reaction leads to dangerous situations. Awareness is related to this as you can predict a number of things that will take place if you are aware of what's around. I rarely find anyone creeping into my blindspot because I look for people speeding up from behind me when I change lanes.

I'll take your argument one step further. As we age we develop bad habits. The more we allow these bad habits to go unchecked, the more they become ingrained as non-conscious actions and we start doing them without thinking - can't easily overcome human nature. For example, only using the mirrors to make a lane change without turning your head to check blind spots, not signaling lane changes, rolling right hand turns at red lights and rolling stops at stop signs. People will claim they are good safe drivers, but the reality is these are bad habits and people who do them are at higher probability of causing an accident.

 

[Big Rig]

I would add that you driving at the limit and someone driving well below the limit is a huge problem. Again, differential is the problem.

Agree and that is why fog creates chain accidents as people have no reference for their speed IE trees etc because they cannot be seen and drive way too fast so the best solution is get the fuck off the road but as a truck driver ice can be solved by waiting it out for the salt trucks but fog can persist and you are pressured to get the load to the customer as they use the truck as their warehouse IE they have no warehouse to store their goods and the truck has got to get there or things shut down it is called "just in time" freight

 

[renuck]

I have seen people doing 70 in the right lane that stay there when people are trying to merge onto the highway. In order to merge safely, you generally end up behind them at the same speed. Now, to get into the middle lane, you are either cutting off someone going at 100+ or making a quick swing in. But it all starts with the person going too slowly.

I agree. In another thread I said I hated people trying to merge onto a highway doing 60-70 and I'm stuck behind them running out of on ramp with traffic coming at us doing 100+. I suppose they think they are being safe drivers but they are creating a dangerous situation for everyone. I'll ride it out as long as I can to give them a chance but then I gun it around them. It screws them a bit because I effectively block them out of merging when there is a space but at the same time If I let them ride it out I'd be the one getting rear-ended for a situation they created.

I'll admit I'm an aggressive driver and I speed a lot but I'm not an ass about it if that matters, I don't weave traffic and I don't tailgate, I let people merge etc., I pick my moments. I actually had the opportunity to be involved with a high speed chase through the durham region. Some guy clearly intoxicated was weaving and speeding big time through thick traffic. I tailed the guy and called 911 and got transferred to the OPP I think. I told them what's going on and their first question was "how fast are you going" at the time we were only doing about 150kph or so, the second question was "can you keep up?". Hell yeah I can. So I was tailing this guy through Oshawa out to the 35/115 doing 160-180kph with the blessing of the OPP operator while waiting for cruisers to intercept. That's about as dangerous as my driving has gotten... but apparently legal since they were asking me to do it? I never got to see the end result as they directed me off an off ramp just as cruisers were within range.

 

[sempel]

I'll take your argument one step further. As we age we develop bad habits. The more we allow these bad habits to go unchecked, the more they become ingrained as non-conscious actions and we start doing them without thinking - can't easily overcome human nature. For example, only using the mirrors to make a lane change without turning your head to check blind spots, not signaling lane changes, rolling right hand turns at red lights and rolling stops at stop signs. People will claim they are good safe drivers, but the reality is these are bad habits and people who do them are at higher probability of causing an accident.

Not everyone will be a perfect driver. I'm definitely not perfect and a lot of "bad habits" are things I do but I'm aware I do them. The difference is knowing when you can and cannot. If I roll a stop at an empty intersection in the middle of the day with nobody around, there will never be an issue. OTOH, rolling a stop when there are other cars, pedestrians, cyclists, etc. means a higher chance of an accident. I have seen people who roll their right turns and nearly kill pedestrians because they couldn't see them.

I think the best drivers are the ones who are the most aware - they are aware of their surroundings, the conditions, other cars, pedestrians, cyclists, etc. They may/may not follow all the rules to the letter but I consider them safe as they know what's going on and act/react appropriately. I have been in cars with drivers who follow every rule written but are actually unsafe because they are not aware - they come across as scared and if anything suddenly changes they will not react properly. It's very scary being in the car with them.

I agree. In another thread I said I hated people trying to merge onto a highway doing 60-70 and I'm stuck behind them running out of on ramp with traffic coming at us doing 100+. I suppose they think they are being safe drivers but they are creating a dangerous situation for everyone. I'll ride it out as long as I can to give them a chance but then I gun it around them. It screws them a bit because I effectively block them out of merging when there is a space but at the same time If I let them ride it out I'd be the one getting rear-ended for a situation they created.

I'll admit I'm an aggressive driver and I speed a lot but I'm not an ass about it if that matters, I don't weave traffic and I don't tailgate, I let people merge etc., I pick my moments. I actually had the opportunity to be involved with a high speed chase through the durham region. Some guy clearly intoxicated was weaving and speeding big time through thick traffic. I tailed the guy and called 911 and got transferred to the OPP I think. I told them what's going on and their first question was "how fast are you going" at the time we were only doing about 150kph or so, the second question was "can you keep up?". Hell yeah I can. So I was tailing this guy through Oshawa out to the 35/115 doing 160-180kph with the blessing of the OPP operator while waiting for cruisers to intercept. That's about as dangerous as my driving has gotten... but apparently legal since they were asking me to do it? I never got to see the end result as they directed me off an off ramp just as cruisers were within range.

Good for you. I'm surprised though because that's not what I would expect. The reason is I know someone who's house was being broken into while they were still there so they called the cops. They perps heard the sirens and jetted. They apparently almost hit the cop when speeding away but the cop didn't give chase. When my friend asked, they were told they are not supposed to chase cars under certain circumstances because the high-speed chase could result in a severe accident. Better to let the perp get away and drive normally.

 

[FAST]

Dead right,...

Assuming the other driver is going to do something wrong, dumb... not assuming they are driving smart,... going to do the right thing,... is what would eliminate a lot of "accidents".

I could have been involved in numerous "accidents",... that the other would have been completely at fault.

 

[SirWanker]

Perhaps the fines should be changed to be proportional to the offender's wealth, like in some European countries (Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries)

 

[sempel]

Assuming the other driver is going to do something wrong, dumb... not assuming they are driving smart,... going to do the right thing,... is what would eliminate a lot of "accidents".

I could have been involved in numerous "accidents",... that the other would have been completely at fault.

For sure. I've anticipated stupidity and it's saved me from a number of accidents. I can see the guy/gal making a right turn out of a plaza or another intersection that should NOT be turning given I will be required to brake in order to avoid hitting them. But I assume they'll be stupid so I get out of the lane or slow down enough to give them the time. I may/may not be speeding but they don't realize they do not have the time to make the turn safely. My peeve is the person that takes the turn and continues to drive slowly, not even bothering to accelerate to the speed of the traffic.

 

[TeeJay]

I wonder how many deaths these left lane bandits are causing by aggravating people going somewhere at a normal traffic speed??

Oh go check out the other thread when I stated driving the speed limit in left lane is acceptable
You can almost feel the road rage from the responses in the thread

Someone else stated (and I agree) speeding + rage is far worse than just speeding alone
But simple fact is even a 10KM increase in your highway speed significantly reduces your time to stop and increases your chance for severe injury or death

 

[The "Bone" Ranger]

It's okay, I just use one of these and the folks get out of my way:

Oh go check out the other thread when I stated driving the speed limit in left lane is acceptable
You can almost feel the road rage from the responses in the thread

Someone else stated (and I agree) speeding + rage is far worse than just speeding alone
But simple fact is even a 10KM increase in your highway speed significantly reduces your time to stop and increases your chance for severe injury or death

 

[Zoot Allures]

What about the insurance companies? They will lose $BILLIONS in premiums.

Interesting statement

If driver less cars stop accidents then no need for insurance which is what ? Average 2 grand per driver ? What will happen to repair shops and towing companies ?