Social Dates question

[wellhungone]

Thank you all,

some good and some bad comments came out of this but I'm good with it all.

Yes, I guess I misunderstood the

SP: Hey, I'm working tonight did you want to see me
Me: Sure
SP: Great, I'm at XXX downtown will 8pm work.
Me: works great for me
SP: Hey, I have an idea, did you want to grab some dinner prior to the appointment ?
Me: Okay, any place or style in particular ?
SP: Not really, what do you prefer ?

So yes, a little more communication would have avoid this post and I am sure that it would have been a good evening. Like I said, if I am the one to suggest it I have no issue with the rate.

Lessons learn, thank you all for the feed back.

 

[Mr Deeds]

Ive had plenty of off the clock dates with sps over the years mostly with women who Ive known for a while and we just enjoy each others company. However Ive found that once Ive become friends with a lady I usually stop see them for sex. Dont why this is it just seems a little odd to me.

 

[TFZL1]

I have a freind who complained to me about a similar situation. He’d met a stripper at a local bar. He thought they hit it off and would see her regularly, buy her drinks and pay for dances. They started talking and texting off the clock.
I don’t know how long, I only heard it from him after the fact.
One day he asked her to go out to a movie when she wasn’t working at the club.
He says it all went fine until after the movie, when they got back in the car she asked for $100.
He said he was flabbergasted. Never expected a paid date. He only had $40 and gave it to her. She wanted him to go to a bank machine. He drove her home and she left in a huff. Now she won’t talk to him. (Blocked is my guess)
I told him he should have expected to pay, she’s a sex worker. He says they’ve never had sex, thought he was dating.
$100 sounds way to cheap to me. Either she’s very amateur or he’s lying to me. Now he’s wondering if he should go to the club to see her.
I told him not to date a sex worker if he doesn’t want to pay. P.s. He’s 60+, she’s -30.

 

[shack]

SP: Hey, I have an idea, did you want to grab some dinner prior to the appointment ?

Were those her exact words? Because saying that dinner was prior to the appointment means that it was not part of the appointment, inferring that it was off the clock. If this is the case, it gives more credence to your assumption.

 

[ravencroft]

Hi OP,

I don't think you were wrong to think it was possibly a "free" social ventute before a paid sexual encounter. Not every sex worker nickels and dimes her regulars for every moment spent together if they genuinely get along. I've had several past trysts / social outings with my regular MPAs and SPs that enjoyed my company and we went out for drinks, food or show before/after a session and I was never charged for that time. Heck they even split the bill on occasion despite my insistence that I pay the full tab!

Some ladies have ass AND class and don't need to hustle. Others are just straight-up hos. Sounds like yours sadly turned out to be the latter. Best of luck in the future!

 

[IM469]

Were those her exact words? Because saying that dinner was prior to the appointment means that it was not part of the appointment, inferring that it was off the clock. If this is the case, it gives more credence to your assumption.

I agree. If she said 'let's start the appoint early and go to dinner' , there could be a reasonable assumption of payment. I have been to dinner with both dancers and SP's but never 'on the clock'. I always suggest that if they have time when work is finished - we could meet for dinner. It is clear I'm taking a friend to dinner but I have had very recently heard 'my time outside the club is $500 /hr'. I don't get upset, I just tell them I was asking for an off the clock relaxing dinner and sadly, although I understand the fee, I'm not into it.

I find these dinner dates interesting and fun -I never talk about her work. I never make a sexual pass and drop them off without incident. Usually we end up going out more than once.

 

[sempel]

I have a freind who complained to me about a similar situation. He’d met a stripper at a local bar. He thought they hit it off and would see her regularly, buy her drinks and pay for dances. They started talking and texting off the clock.
I don’t know how long, I only heard it from him after the fact.
One day he asked her to go out to a movie when she wasn’t working at the club.
He says it all went fine until after the movie, when they got back in the car she asked for $100.
He said he was flabbergasted. Never expected a paid date. He only had $40 and gave it to her. She wanted him to go to a bank machine. He drove her home and she left in a huff. Now she won’t talk to him. (Blocked is my guess)
I told him he should have expected to pay, she’s a sex worker. He says they’ve never had sex, thought he was dating.
$100 sounds way to cheap to me. Either she’s very amateur or he’s lying to me. Now he’s wondering if he should go to the club to see her.
I told him not to date a sex worker if he doesn’t want to pay. P.s. He’s 60+, she’s -30.

I feel sorry for your friend's experience and IMO that was manipulative and dishonest on her part. If I were in the same situation I would have paid her nothing. I think it's understandable when you are dealing with SP's that they are paid for their time (with obvious benefits implied). Everybody else is only getting paid for whatever when they are "working" (dancers at clubs, MPA's at MP's, etc.). So if you ask them on a social date, the general implication is it's unpaid. Obviously if you are looking for sex, it's paid and I'm sure any person with a brain will ask about a rate so they know what to expect. But for a worker who doesn't have a published rate to suddenly spring a charge? BS.

Were those her exact words? Because saying that dinner was prior to the appointment means that it was not part of the appointment, inferring that it was off the clock. If this is the case, it gives more credence to your assumption.

I don't think anyone thinks the OP's assumption lacked some basis. But it's still just that - an assumption. NOTHING prevented him from clarifying with her at any point until he did and considering he's aware of the concept of social dates, it's on him for not asking.

Hi OP,

I don't think you were wrong to think it was possibly a "free" social ventute before a paid sexual encounter. Not every sex worker nickels and dimes her regulars for every moment spent together if they genuinely get along. I've had several past trysts / social outings with my regular MPAs and SPs that enjoyed my company and we went out for drinks, food or show before/after a session and I was never charged for that time. Heck they even split the bill on occasion despite my insistence that I pay the full tab!

Some ladies have ass AND class and don't need to hustle. Others are just straight-up hos. Sounds like yours sadly turned out to be the latter. Best of luck in the future!

I agree, there are some ladies that don't nickel and dime, and in general, those are the ones that have repeat business with happy customers who happily promote them for being great. I am going to defend the SP in this instance (even though she was clearly less than upfront than she could have been). Her job is to get clients to pay for her time/company. She probably got along well enough with the OP and made a suggestion. Yes, a good SP will be clear "Hey, I also offer social dates, as well as combo social/fun dates. Is that something you'd be interested in?" would have worked well enough and don't think the OP would have had any reason to misunderstand.

Maybe it's just the cynic in me but I really don't get the social dates. For me, I'm guessing some people are lonely and just enjoy the company or there's the fantasy aspect of having someone on your arm who is "into you". But I guess the disconnect is the payment. If the guy wasn't paying, she would not be spending the social time with him. Therefore, she's not really that into him and it's fake. After it's all done, I'm going to ask myself was I really that funny? Was I really that charming? I'd never know because she could be smiling and laughing because that's the role she's being paid for.

I also find it really weird (and laughable) when the SP suggests it. "Hey Mr. Client, I enjoy your company so much so let's also combine some social activity into our appointments". My first thought would be if she really, truly enjoyed my company, she wouldn't be charging me. So she doesn't enjoy my company all that much, does she?

 

[koreanjames]

I’m sorry to say but your friend is naive for his age.... 30 year gap and met at a StripJoint. I don’t think it was his incredible looks and charm that got her into texting him and what not .... it’s his wallet.

Again, considering the industry she works in.... every guy simply has to ask before hand.... these ladies for the most part will want something ($$) almost each and every time, to give free sex and/or companionship is taking a loss of income plain and simple for most of these girls.

One day he asked her to go out to a movie when she wasn’t working at the club.
He says it all went fine until after the movie, when they got back in the car she asked for $100.
He said he was flabbergasted. Never expected a paid date. He only had $40 and gave it to her. She wanted him to go to a bank machine. He drove her home and she left in a huff. Now she won’t talk to him. (Blocked is my guess)
I told him he should have expected to pay, she’s a sex worker. He says they’ve never had sex, thought he was dating.
$100 sounds way to cheap to me. Either she’s very amateur or he’s lying to me. Now he’s wondering if go to the club to see her.
I told him not to date a sex worker if he doesn’t want to pay. P.s. He’s 60+, she’s -30.

 

[sempel]

I’m sorry to say but your friend is naive for his age.... 30 year gap and met at a StripJoint. I don’t think it was his incredible looks and charm that got her into texting him and what not .... it’s his wallet.

Again, considering the industry she works in.... every guy simply has to ask before hand.... these ladies for the most part will want something ($$) almost each and every time, to give free sex and/or companionship is taking a loss of income plain and simple for most of these girls.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think the same rules apply to strippers as they do for SP's. If you ask a stripper to have sex with you, chances are you are doing so knowing you are going to pay her for the privilege. Chances are she's going to quote you a rate. But if you ask a stripper on a date, that's her off time since she's not working - working would be at the club. So it's quite reasonable for most guys to think it's just a date and not a paid date. The fact that many guys hit on her is irrelevant.

If you asked a waitress at a restaurant, or heck, even the waitress at a SC on a date, would you expect her to charge you?

Same kind of goes for MPA's. If you say I wanna see you outside the MP but on a social basis i.e. date, I don't expect a quote/rate. Different if I'm asking to see her privately for massage/extras which would just be an extension of her work in a different location.

Obviously this isn't cut and dry as some strippers/MPA's moonlight as SP's so there might be some initial confusion/misinterpretation but either way, these type of details should be ironed out right away, not just before the date.

 

[Vermeer27]

There's a big difference between doing a friend a favour and "business".

The fact that she contacted you made it sound like friends, when in fact it was business. She tried to play you. "Not understanding how the business works" is not a defence. Sp's go out on casual unpaid dates, even dates with clients, (I know, because I've done this myself.)
Her response says even more about her...she did you a favour by revealing her true colours before you spent any more money on her.

The way that sp/client relationships have moved into the context of social media has blurred boundaries in an unhealthy way. I would say that an SP reaching out to you unsolicited is, in itself, a problem, but I may be in the minority on this.

 

[sempel]

There's a big difference between doing a friend a favour and "business".

The fact that she contacted you made it sound like friends, when in fact it was business. She tried to play you. "Not understanding how the business works" is not a defence. Sp's go out on casual unpaid dates, even dates with clients, (I know, because I've done this myself.)
Her response says even more about her...she did you a favour by revealing her true colours before you spent any more money on her.

The way that sp/client relationships have moved into the context of social media has blurred boundaries in an unhealthy way. I would say that an SP reaching out to you unsolicited is, in itself, a problem, but I may be in the minority on this.

She said she was working and asked if the client wanted to make an appointment, then suggested they get dinner prior. Sure she didn't spell it out about the dinner being paid time but does she really have to?

My belief is that free social time is usually earned. A long time client, a generous tipper, a gifter, a favor provider, or some mish-mash of all these will likely result in some free social time (or free date time). But having seen an SP 3X, highly unlikely she'd suddenly want to socialize with the client off the clock. And maybe it's just me but when someone indicates they are working and soliciting appointments, I'm doubtful they would sacrifice potential paid time to go off the clock. Granted a low-volume provider might do this after fun time has ended but probably not before.

 

[NiceToMeetYou]

In my opinion, I've never paid an escort to go out with me for lunch or dinner. Of course, I have paid them for the bedroom time after the meals.

When I lived out West, I have a couple regulars which a couple of them have toured the West from Montreal and one is local. I took them out for lunches and dinners perhaps over 100 times before the bedroom events. None of the 100+ dates had me paying for social time.

If they want to have meals with me, then it would be fine and I don't pay them to eat with me. If they don't want to eat with me, then it's also fine and we just do the bedroom thing LOL.

In my opinion, we don't pay an escort for having a coffee and meals with us. It's totally a waste of our money and time to pay them to sip a cup of coffee and eating meals with us. If you have to pay them to have a meal with you, I'm sure they don't want to be there sitting and having meals with you. All they want from you is your money LOL.

 

[Vermeer27]

She said she was working and asked if the client wanted to make an appointment, then suggested they get dinner prior. Sure she didn't spell it out about the dinner being paid time but does she really have to?

In my opinion, she does, but my opinion is qualified by the fact that I would never be OK with an SP soliciting me for business in the first place, (though I have communicated with sp's as I would any other friend). There's a difference, and we both acknowledge it.
The fact that she got pissed off over what is ultimately a misunderstanding, and called him "cheap", which is a very pejorative term in the standard SP vocabulary, says it all.

 

[sempel]

In my opinion, I've never paid an escort to go out with me for lunch or dinner. Of course, I have paid them for the bedroom time after the meals.

When I lived out West, I have a couple regulars which a couple of them have toured the West from Montreal and one is local. I took them out for lunches and dinners perhaps over 100 times before the bedroom events. None of the 100+ dates had me paying for social time.

If they want to have meals with me, then it would be fine and I don't pay them to eat with me. If they don't want to eat with me, then it's also fine and we just do the bedroom thing LOL.

In my opinion, we don't pay an escort for having a coffee and meals with us. It's totally a waste of our money and time to pay them to sip a cup of coffee and eating meals with us. If you have to pay them to have a meal with you, I'm sure they don't want to be there sitting and having meals with you. All they want from you is your money LOL.

This all sounds perfectly logical. However, I'm sure a bunch of SP's will disagree, talk about how their time is money, you are paying for time so whether she's eating food or your Johnson it's all paid for.

But I'm just like you attitude wise - if you would like to spend time socializing, essentially BEING FRIENDS, it wouldn't be paid time. Then it becomes a real relationship versus a fake/phony/fantasy one. And to your point, if the SP doesn't want to eat with you, no problem.

I used to have an MPA I saw regularly. She was a good cook and occasionally brought in homemade food and shared. We had a couple of potlucks, a couple of sessions with some dessert. As she put it, she's gotta eat so it's nice to have company. That's also why I find this situation funny as some of these girls are either starving, taking a few moments to scarf some grub, or eat alone. People might disagree but to me it's mutually beneficial to spend time eating with someone, especially if they'll pick up the tab (as most gents would do). And some girls will come back with "Can't a girl afford her own meal?" Of course she can. She has a choice. She's not obligated to accept.

I wonder, how many SP's would be open to this - 90 min session, guy brings food and pays 60 min rate, and you eat afterwards. Yes, the lady sacrifices 30 min earnings but she's fed, can relax for 30 min, has company, and there's more connection.

 

[sempel]

She said she was working and asked if the client wanted to make an appointment, then suggested they get dinner prior. Sure she didn't spell it out about the dinner being paid time but does she really have to?

In my opinion, she does, but my opinion is qualified by the fact that I would never be OK with an SP soliciting me for business in the first place, (though I have communicated with sp's as I would any other friend). There's a difference, and we both acknowledge it.
The fact that she got pissed off over what is ultimately a misunderstanding, and called him "cheap", which is a very pejorative term in the standard SP vocabulary, says it all.

Her reaction was a whole other issue - it showed her true nature, her motivation, and lack of customer service. Even if she's 100% correct, the OP is a cheap bastard (I'm not saying he is), she should NEVER say that. This falls into the "customer is always right" notion. He's wrong thinking it's free, but she should have apologized for any confusion/misunderstanding and explained what she was implying. After the OP said no, he's not interested in paid social time, she should have then prompted about whether he was still interested in keeping the fun-time appointment.

Sometimes some people don't understand that they are the supplier and customers have choice (and lots of it). So sometimes you have to take the high road and bite your tongue and play the long game. I recently had to apologize and kiss ass to somebody who was totally wrong in his decision but I needed him more than he needed me so I ate crow.

 

[shack]

Ok. sempel has placed 5 out of the last 9 posts. All were long-winded and trying to refute at least parts of the posts of 6 different posters.

He is in full "Troll Mode". He sees no posts that do not deserve a rebuttal.

 

[cuddler]

I wonder, how many SP's would be open to this - 90 min session, guy brings food and pays 60 min rate, and you eat afterwards. Yes, the lady sacrifices 30 min earnings but she's fed, can relax for 30 min, has company, and there's more connection.

Why would they care lol.

Work the 30, call friends over and pig out or have some dude bring some random food while trying to make moves.

 

[koreanjames]

Agreed completely with all your points.

She basically cold-called and it worked .... until it didn’t, which also happens a lot in many other industries.

Re blurring the lines re business and real-life via social media, a sucker is born every minute so I sure as hell cant blame an entrepreneurial SP for trying that angle... but I really wonder what state of mind some of these guys are in when they just don’t bother to ask to confirm (when they can sense something is off), and continue act as if they won the SP lottery.

And good riddance to this lady!!! I can imagine the financial $h!t$t@rm that would be awaiting downstream on this path.

There's a big difference between doing a friend a favour and "business".

The fact that she contacted you made it sound like friends, when in fact it was business. She tried to play you. "Not understanding how the business works" is not a defence. Sp's go out on casual unpaid dates, even dates with clients, (I know, because I've done this myself.)
Her response says even more about her...she did you a favour by revealing her true colours before you spent any more money on her.

The way that sp/client relationships have moved into the context of social media has blurred boundaries in an unhealthy way. I would say that an SP reaching out to you unsolicited is, in itself, a problem, but I may be in the minority on this.

 

[icespot]

To the OP:

There is nothing wrong with what you did, look at it as a simple legal contract.
Offering to pay for dinner was a consideration. It doesn't always have to be a money transaction.
However, she wanted a greater consideration for the business transaction.
Her counter offer to you was not acceptable so you cancel the service being offered.
One thing you should not have said was that it was a place she couldn't afford, but I am sure that was the result of her treatment of you after canceling.
In my books you Sir are a badass, and good for you...

 

[wellhungone]

Were those her exact words? Because saying that dinner was prior to the appointment means that it was not part of the appointment, inferring that it was off the clock. If this is the case, it gives more credence to your assumption.

Yes, her words (text).