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Trudeau Violated Conflict of Interest Act

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oldjones

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Frankfooter said:
I see, so you now think corporations shouldn't be allowed to lobby government?
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It would be A Good Thing, but how could we stop them?

In this case what we have is a PM who wrote a law for the benefit of corporations — just ask the Crown for your Deferred Prosecution Agreement, if you're ever charged — and getting laws passed is what PM's do. But the PM couldn't manage to make his new law match up to what SNC wanted/needed to get off. Even though the top guy at SNC used to be top dog in the swivel service —Clerk of the Privy Council — so he knew exactly How Things Work. And the guy the PM sent to 'fix' his problem by badgering his A-G, was the new Clerk. Thus the lobbying which they messed up.

Because somehow, the PM and the ex-Clerk, both champions of enlightened capitalism, couldn't manage to get SNC to make an offer sufficiently apologetic for their admitted wrongdoing, and appropriately costly to punish it, that the Director of Prosecutions could accept. Or couldn't refuse because it was so sincere and expensive a self-punisment. But it seems neither knew how to do their jobs when playing by the rules — including the new one — as we're all supposed to. They like the back-channels.

Instead SNC lobbied, the PM pressured, both looking to get benefits for themselves and for their personal operations at others' expense, personal, professional and pecuniary. From the A-G he fired, through the workers and shareholders down to every single taxpayer.
**************************************/y53wogoh
 
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Frankfooter

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oldjones said:
It would be A Good Thing, but how could we stop them?

However in this case what we have is a PM who wrote a law for the benefit of corporations — just ask the Crown for your Deferred Prosecution Agreement, if you're ever charged. But the PM couldn't manage to make his new law match up to what SNC wanted/needed to get off. Even though the top guy at SNC used to be top dog in the swivel service —Clerk of the Privy Council — so he knew How Things Work, and the guy the PM sent to 'fix his problem' by badgering his A-G was the new Clerk.

And somehow, the PM and the ex-Clerk, both champions of enlightened capitalism, couldn't manage to get SNC to make an offer sufficiently apologetic for their admitted wrongdoing and appropriately costly to punish it that the Director of Prosecutions could accept.

Instead SNC lobbied and the PM pressured, both looking to get benefits for themselves and their operations at others expense, personal, professional and pecuniary. From the A-G he fired down to every single taxpayer and citizen.
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It would be a good thing, but its not like it doesn't happen with telcos, environmental rules, airlines or really any other industry that lobbies and quite often gets changes they want enacted.
And if Butler were on about those things I'd be totally on board with him, but trying to make out that SNC is the first time this has ever happened and ever so evil that Trudeau should resign is as honest as his claim that he's really a Sanders supporter.
Its just trolling.
 
oldjones

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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ç
Frankfooter said:
It would be a good thing, but its not like it doesn't happen with telcos, environmental rules, airlines or really any other industry that lobbies and quite often gets changes they want enacted.
And if Butler were on about those things I'd be totally on board with him, but trying to make out that SNC is the first time this has ever happened and ever so evil that Trudeau should resign is as honest as his claim that he's really a Sanders supporter.
Its just trolling.
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If every pol who should resign did so, there'd be a whole lot of vacant seats and offices in the capitals and city halls of the world.

It's that SNC and the PM did it so incompetently, and with such a sense of entitlement to their back-corridor ways. Let's not forget that the crime SNC is so desperate to admit to by way of a DPA rather than face a criminal trial, is bribing politicians to do improper and illegal things.

Here at home, it seems they imagine they can do it without any money changing hands. Not counting their budget for hiring ex-judges to write favourable opinions, of course.

------------
BTW. http://ciec-ccie.parl.gc.ca/EN/ReportsAndPublications/Pages/TrudeauIIReport.aspx

In case anyone cares what The Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner actually said about the matter.
 
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Frankfooter

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oldjones said:
If every pol who should resign did so, there'd be a whole lot of vacant seats and offices in the capitals and city halls of the world.

It's that SNC and the PM did it so incompetently, and with such a sense of entitlement to their back-corridor ways. Let's not forget that the crime SNC is so desperate to admit to by way of a DPA rather than face a criminal trial, is bribing politicians to do improper and illegal things.

Here at home, it seems they imagine they can do it without any money changing hands. Not counting their budget for hiring ex-judges to write favourable opinions, of course.
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Sure the crime was bribery, but it was in Libya.
There are quite a few countries where bribery is legit business expense.

Again, I'm all for this standard, but then it should apply to all mining companies or corporations that do work around the globe as well.
Butler should take this energy and support changes so that all companies and all parties stop doing this, rather than saying only this one incident should be punished.
 
GameBoy27

GameBoy27

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Nov 23, 2004
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An interesting thing to note, it was Harper that brought in tougher ethics restrictions as a result of past Liberal Governments abusing the system. Trudeau is a liar, broke the rules and got caught. The man who has apologized many times for some perceived wrong that happened 80 years ago, 100, 150 years ago, will not apologize for what he did. His excuse, he was trying to protect jobs. Yeah, his own!
 
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Frankfooter

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GameBoy27 said:
An interesting thing to note, it was Harper that brought in tougher ethics restrictions as a result of past Liberal Governments abusing the system. Trudeau is a liar, broke the rules and got caught. The man who has apologized many times for some perceived wrong that happened 80 years ago, 100, 150 years ago, will not apologize for what he did. His excuse, he was trying to protect jobs. Yeah, his own!
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Check the massive list of ethics issues with Harper and contrast it with this one from Trudeau.
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/
 
oldjones

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,479
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Frankfooter said:
Sure the crime was bribery, but it was in Libya.
There are quite a few countries where bribery is legit business expense.

Again, I'm all for this standard, but then it should apply to all mining companies or corporations that do work around the globe as well.
Butler should take this energy and support changes so that all companies and all parties stop doing this, rather than saying only this one incident should be punished.
Click to expand...
But the law that makes it a crime is a Canadian law. And as far as I know, it applies to all Canadian firms.

Butler can speak for himself, but I'd hate to think you, or anyone was demanding that we prosecute no one for a crime committed unless we prosecute everyone. Nothing humans do meets that standard of perfection.

However, when pols write laws, they are supposed to put serious effort into stating them universally, to achieve their particular purposes. Apparently Trudeau and Morneau's efforts by way of legislating through the Budget weren't up to the mark, as further improper and unsuccessful efforts were required in hopes of achieving what their law failed to deliver.

Whatever lobbying SNC did or didn't, and whether it was within the laws or not, it is what the PM did that was unethical and which breached the law on conflict of interest, as he tried to accomplish his purposes by extra-legal means.
 
oldjones

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,479
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Frankfooter said:
Check the massive list of ethics issues with Harper and contrast it with this one from Trudeau.
https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2015/08/10/Harper-Abuses-of-Power-Final/
Click to expand...
It is good to set the Beamish Boy in perspective next to the Conniving Con. But all it really tells us is that 'having good intentions' can be used to justify anything. And will be, when you're determined to have it your way, if at all possible right or wrong be damned.

And politics is the Art of the Possible, isn't it?
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Frankfooter said:
Sure the crime was bribery, but it was in Libya.
There are quite a few countries where bribery is legit business expense.

Again, I'm all for this standard, but then it should apply to all mining companies or corporations that do work around the globe as well.
Butler should take this energy and support changes so that all companies and all parties stop doing this, rather than saying only this one incident should be punished.
Click to expand...
Well as I support the law then I support going after all the corporations. I'm happy to see money allocated to investigating them.

Your problem is only with who was in charge when the law was applied and it turned out they were playing footsie under the table with them.

I wouldn't bat an eye if Sheer was ousted for corruption.

As I said before. I don't care who you vote for, just don't vote for the Liberals.
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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F

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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oldjones said:
It is good to set the Beamish Boy in perspective next to the Conniving Con. But all it really tells us is that 'having good intentions' can be used to justify anything. And will be, when you're determined to have it your way, if at all possible right or wrong be damned.

And politics is the Art of the Possible, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Perspective is important here.
The conservatives have been desparate for any kind of scandal and this is as close as they get, so they're going with it.

To whit:
a company operates as companies do in Libya, though its not allowed here
said company gets into trouble
said company lobbies the gov't for change
PM asks AG to implement new program for said company
AG says no
PM asks again
AG says no

end of scandal
 
B

Butler1000

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Frankfooter said:
Go ahead and show us which ones Trudeau did as well.
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Just a glance shows use of Omnibus bills, and tack ons, you know, like this law. Muzzling people, lying to the public, taking cash for access.

And it only took them one term to get there.
 
B

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Frankfooter said:
Perspective is important here.
The conservatives have been desparate for any kind of scandal and this is as close as they get, so they're going with it.

To whit:
a company operates as companies do in Libya, though its not allowed here
said company gets into trouble
said company lobbies the gov't for change
PM asks AG to implement new program for said company
AG says no
PM asks again
AG says no

end of scandal
Click to expand...
Add on they acted the same in QUEBEC as well with hospital and road construction. Last I checked they were still in Canada.

Point being they did break the law, knew it, paid to have the law modified (you think they would have lobbied for the change otherwise?) And got caught doing that.

And so the consequences are now going to happen.
 
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Frankfooter

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Butler1000 said:
Just a glance shows use of Omnibus bills, and tack ons, you know, like this law. Muzzling people, lying to the public, taking cash for access.

And it only took them one term to get there.
Click to expand...
I didn't think you could list any real items.
 
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Frankfooter

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