Ukraine updates

[krealtarron]

Do you notice JC is backing up your arguments and is also a defender of the Russian army? You know where I'm going with this right but hey, no judgment because I'm not a judgemental fella and I will leave it at this and say no more.

Let us ignore the dumbassery in your comment that JC is defending the Russian army for a second. It is more like being realistic.

"I am not a judgemental fella" says squeeze, while making a judgemental comment about someone.

Liberals and their self awareness is a sight to behold.

 

[jcpro]

Do you notice JC is backing up your arguments and is also a defender of the Russian army? You know where I'm going with this right but hey, no judgment because I'm not a judgemental fella and I will leave it at this and say no more.

WTF!? Where did I defend Russian army? Is discussing capabilities now out of bounds, too? Nothing but propaganda of success is allowed. ROTFLMFAO!!!

 

[Frankfooter]

We'll see. Russian army, historically, takes 2-3 years to spool up. This is a new kind of war for them while Ukrainians have the benefit of the American experience, but no advantage on the battle field lasts more than a few short months. Unless there is a serious structural problem with Russian military, they'll reach all their objectives this year.

They already ran through the 300,000 'volunteers' they grabbed off the streets and prisons.
So you think it'll take another 2-3 for the next wave?

 

[Frankfooter]

Franky's logic:

Everything I dont like = pro Russian propaganda.
Everything I like = Science!

K's logic

Only Hindustan Times is fair and balanced and everything else is propaganda.
Science - its not on the Hindustan Times so its fake!

 

[jcpro]

They already ran through the 300,000 'volunteers' they grabbed off the streets and prisons.
So you think it'll take another 2-3 for the next wave?

How many "bodies" have the Ukrainians ran through? Think man!! For yourself! Wouldn't you rather expand your garbage rather than your category A units in a war of attrition????

 

[Frankfooter]

How many "bodies" have the Ukrainians ran through? Think man!! For yourself! Wouldn't you rather expand your garbage rather than your category A units in a war of attrition????

Its true that Ukraine has lost as well, though not as many as Russia.
One of the big differences is that Russians are fighting a war they don't care about and Ukrainians are fighting for their homes.

How many young men have fled Russia now to avoid the war?
Putin has even given up on using prisoners, how many more do you think he can conscript and stay as leader?

 

[krealtarron]

Its true that Ukraine has lost as well, though not as many as Russia.

Ukraine does not publish its losses. So how do you know "not as many as Russia"? Based on what evidence?

 

[Frankfooter]

Ukraine does not publish its losses. So how do you know "not as many as Russia"? Based on what evidence?

Checking a number of sources, none of which are the Hindustan Times.

 

[krealtarron]

Its Hindustan Times or nothing for you these days.
The only 'unbiased source' you accept.

That's so sad that you don't even realize it.

Here is how your great Leopard 2 tanks performed against the pesky ISIS assholes. Think 18 Leopards are going to "own the Russians"?

As I said, type of warfare, terrain, training, numbers all matter.

 

[krealtarron]

Checking a number of sources, none of which are the Hindustan Times.

Yup a number of western MSM sources who claim a "7 to 1 loss ratio". Numbers they pulled out of their asses and fed it directly to you.

 

[Frankfooter]

Here is how your great Leopard 2 tanks performed against the pesky ISIS assholes. Think 18 Leopards are going to "own the Russians"?

Here is the list of tanks donated

• 
  38 T-72M1s [April 2022] (Some delivered from Czech stocks in exchange for 15 Leopard 2A4 MBTs and 1 Büffel ARV through the 'Ringtausch' programme)
• 
  51 T-72M1s [May or June 2022] (Some purchased by Czechia from Bulgaria and delivered to Ukraine)
• 
  250+ T-72M(R)s and T-72M1(R)s [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
• 
  31 T-72As [July or August 2022]
• 
  28 M-55S' [October 2022] (From Slovenian stocks in exchange for 45 MAN 8x8 trucks through the 'Ringtausch' programme)
• 
  90 T-72EAs [Delivered from January 2023 onwards] (Purchased by the Netherlands and U.S. from Czechia, upgraded and delivered to Ukraine)
• 
  14 Leopard 2A4s [Delivered from February 2023 onwards]
• 
  18 Leopard 2A6s [March 2023]
• 
  3 Leopard 2A6s [March 2023]
• 
  14 Challenger 2s [Delivered from March 2023 onwards]
• 
  60 PT-91s [To be delivered]
• 
  
  
  100+ Leopard 1A5s [To be delivered]
• 
  8 Leopard 2A4s [To be delivered]
• 
  8 Leopard 2A4s [To be delivered]
• 
  10 Leopard 2A4s [To be delivered]
• 
  10 Strv 122s [To be delivered]
• 
  31 M1 Abrams [To be delivered]

 

[krealtarron]

Here is the list of tanks donated

• 
  38 T-72M1s [April 2022] (Some delivered from Czech stocks in exchange for 15 Leopard 2A4 MBTs and 1 Büffel ARV through the 'Ringtausch' programme)
• 
  51 T-72M1s [May or June 2022] (Some purchased by Czechia from Bulgaria and delivered to Ukraine)
• 
  250+ T-72M(R)s and T-72M1(R)s [Delivered from April 2022 onwards]
• 
  31 T-72As [July or August 2022]
• 
  28 M-55S' [October 2022] (From Slovenian stocks in exchange for 45 MAN 8x8 trucks through the 'Ringtausch' programme)
• 
  90 T-72EAs [Delivered from January 2023 onwards] (Purchased by the Netherlands and U.S. from Czechia, upgraded and delivered to Ukraine)
• 
  14 Leopard 2A4s [Delivered from February 2023 onwards]
• 
  18 Leopard 2A6s [March 2023]
• 
  3 Leopard 2A6s [March 2023]
• 
  14 Challenger 2s [Delivered from March 2023 onwards]
• 
  60 PT-91s [To be delivered]
• 
  
  
  100+ Leopard 1A5s [To be delivered]
• 
  8 Leopard 2A4s [To be delivered]
• 
  8 Leopard 2A4s [To be delivered]
• 
  10 Leopard 2A4s [To be delivered]
• 
  10 Strv 122s [To be delivered]
• 
  31 M1 Abrams [To be delivered]

So the majority are T-72M/M1s which are the very first versions of those tanks. Russia has like 10,000 T-72s, 7000 in reserve alone. The lot of the others are also outdated equipment from the 50s and 60s. Nothing to harp on about.

 

[jcpro]

Yup a number of western MSM sources who claim a "7 to 1 loss ratio". Numbers they pulled out of their asses and fed it directly to you.

The rule of thumb is 3-1 on the offensive and reversed on the defense. Since they've been going back and forth, it's probably no greater than 2-1. From what I can see from the local reports, especially out of Poland, the casualties have been extremely high during the winter. Little wonder that a good portion of the Ukrainian military has a large component of soldiers far beyond the useful age.

 

[Valcazar]

Russia Will Soon Be on the Defense, But Then What? - War on the Rocks

Mike Kofman joins the show yet again. This time, he explains why the debate over the wisdom of the Battle for Bahkmut is so important while still

warontherocks.com

 

[Valcazar]

I wouldn't agree ceasefire but more negotiations for status quo ante bellum. The question is 2022 or 2014.

The problem is that a ceasefire doesn't get you to the status quo ante bellum. It gets you to the status quo post bellum.
Actual negotiations about 2022 vs 2014 and so on is another discussion, but those aren't on the table right now and they aren't on the table for a ceasefire.

Now, for some that is fine. If a country invades and takes land and then demands a ceasefire, it gets to keep that land.
Others want negotiations for a result that does less to incentivize further invasions and land grabs by other powers.

How it will all shake out will have a lot to do with what happens on the battlefield, but there are obviously other factors in play as well.

 

[squeezer]

Let us ignore the dumbassery in your comment that JC is defending the Russian army for a second. It is more like being realistic.

"I am not a judgemental fella" says squeeze, while making a judgemental comment about someone.

Liberals and their self awareness is a sight to behold.

It's actually not realistic at all. It's making assumptions. SO tell me, why is Wagner being replaced if they are doing such a kick-ass job in Bakmut? Go ahead, Jc and you being the military experts can enlighten me or at the very least give me a good chuckle. LMAO

 

[krealtarron]

It's actually not realistic at all. It's making assumptions. SO tell me, why is Wagner being replaced if they are doing such a kick-ass job in Bakmut? Go ahead, Jc and you being the military experts can enlighten me or at the very least give me a good chuckle. LMAO

I dont know why they are being replaced.

Go ask your crush, Putin.

 

[Valcazar]

Always room for nuance in the process I'm sure.

Ceasefires are never a pre-requisite for negotiations.
The very fact you have to negotiate a ceasefire in the first place shows that.

 

[krealtarron]

Ceasefires are never a pre-requisite for negotiations.
The very fact you have to negotiate a ceasefire in the first place shows that.

Thats circular logic or you are being too nitpicky. Negotiating a ceasefire is different from the negotiations that I am proposing to end the war.

 

[krealtarron]