Canada's birth rate is going down. The solution = more immigrants

[Darts]

"Toronto Community Housing is the largest social housing provider in Canada and the second largest in North America. We are wholly owned by the City of Toronto and operate in a non-profit manner. Toronto Community Housing has 2,100 buildings and 50 million square feet of residential space, which represent a $9 billion public asset." We are number 2 in North America, any guess who is number 1.
Toronto Community Housing — Housing Partnership Canada

 

[Not getting younger]

"Toronto Community Housing is the largest social housing provider in Canada and the second largest in North America. We are wholly owned by the City of Toronto and operate in a non-profit manner. Toronto Community Housing has 2,100 buildings and 50 million square feet of residential space, which represent a $9 billion public asset." We are number 2 in North America, any guess who is number 1.
Toronto Community Housing — Housing Partnership Canada

At a guess NY or Chi.

THC. Weird almost runs like a properly run business. Only thing missing is profit or debt. And also, where the recipients/users of the infrastructure pay for it.

TCHC receives most of our operating funding from rent paid by residents (55 per cent) and from subsidies from the City of Toronto (39 per cent). The remaining 6 per cent of operating funding comes from rental of commercial spaces; parking, laundry and cable fees; and income from investments.

City of Toronto funding. 39%.
a million ways to play shell games and where that comes from.

 

[DesRicardo]

Overall, we need to stop having an American style immigration policy and use a more conservative Euro style.

America has an economic model that is rooted in exploiting labour. So it makes sense to bring more people in.

But in Canada, labour is quite expensive so you don't really get the full benefit of ramping up immigration. It would make much more sense to use a measured conservative European style policy that doesn't disrupt the current economy.

 

[Frankfooter]

Not sure what you point is, so have to guess.

You seem to be saying “that” is faster than immigration. By “that” I am assuming you mean price increases?

well strange things happen when demand outstrips supply. Were you expecting them to be exactly correlated?

Things also happen when residents of central Ontario who have lost good paying jobs, see none around. So they go to the GTA. It also happens when people in Alberta, head to Ontario when their economy tanked in 2011. I’ve mentioned interprovincial migration many times.

Things also happen, when land gets scarce, the cost of land goes up, and developers charge more.

Things also happen, when the cost of materials and labour likewise go up..

And for what it’s worth, your link leads to a statscan reakdown of demographics. Not the actual number of immigrants per year.

we want to look at the link I provided, and this one I guess. Clearly, prices did not rocket (demand>>>>>>>supply) prior to 2008-2011ish. So…..

Immigrants in Canada 2024| Statista

Canada’s appeal as an immigration destination has been increasing over the past two decades, with a total of 464,265 people immigrating to the country in 2024.

www.statista.com

Just noting that there is no direct correlation between immigration and housing prices.

 

[DesRicardo]

American immigration policy is broken. What Canada needs to fix is racism in employment where they ask for "Canadian Experience" which has nothing to do with credentials or qualifications. If that is fixed, then immigrants who come here will be able to secure high paying jobs. Additionally, the government inaction and inertia when it comes to meeting housing demand needs to drastically change. If these 2 major issues are fixed, or atleast steps taken to address the majority of issues people have with immigration will be resolved.

This a very layered response. Regarding allowing professionals to work here, it really is a case by case scenario.

But what I'm say is Canada doesn't have a system suited for high immigration. Labour is not cheap here and businesses are cutting beck.

 

[DesRicardo]

What Canada needs to fix is racism in employment where they ask for "Canadian Experience" which has nothing to do with credentials or qualifications.

If you are the CEO of a company and you have a person applying for the director of finance role in your company, but all his credentials are overseas and almost impossible to verify, will you still hire them over the several other "Canadian Experienced" qualified applicants?

It's a bit deeper than just saying racism.

 

[Not getting younger]

I won’t bother getting into a long drawn out “debate” with you Kautilya, in many ways you too are biased. While I think I’m some industries, roles you have a point. In others you don’t. However it’s still not that simple. Have never applied for work in the US, so have no idea if they do/don’t ask for “American Experience”.

but I have to wonder how your racist Cdn employer who ask for Cdn experierence. Is racist when he/she hires a non white 2nd or 4th generation over a the same non white newly arrived?

Canadians make 2.5x more than American counterparts…lol. Not sure what your source for that is.

 

[DesRicardo]

The case by case judgement is called an interview. But immigrants are often times not even given the chance to interview because, they are not white enough (that is bluntly what canadian experience means). The immigrants themselves are objectively qualified because those things are checked for during immigration.

Labour is cheaper here than in the US. Salaries are literally 2.5 times less in Canada.

Canada has a laid back retirement community mentality lol. So nothing changes and the wheels turn real slow.

But you are not understanding the full circle. HR is not going to verify some company out in the Asia, Africa, S. America and even Europe when you have a shit load of candidates right here in Canada.

And I disagree with labour being cheaper here. Min wage in America is like $7.25. It hasn't been that low in Canada since the 90's.

 

[DesRicardo]

Yes, your experience overseas can very well be verified. In today's day and age you can verify. You can also interview the person. During immigration you need to submit proof for your experience and it needs to come from your HR person. So it is already verified.

Also that is not what Canadian Experience means. Canadian Experience, as defined by employers, simply means an immigrant is not "canadian enough". At what point do they become Canadian? There are no standards. Its employment discrimination, plain and simple. The other question to as is why does this not exist in the US? No one there asks for American Experience. This is a Canadian phenomenon only and it is really racist gatekeeping behaviour.

Kudos to you for being super progressive. Most private organizations will take the steps to verify overseas credentials because you already have candidates here. They have a business to run and are not rewarded for charity work. If someone has local experience, it holds more weight.

At what point to you become Canadian enough? When you have the Canadian experience.

If you want high-paying jobs, you will have to go through high-level scrutiny.

I blame the government. They have been selling this lie of high paying jobs to immigrants for decades now.

 

[Not getting younger]

Alrighty then. Some actual stats, without digging into specific industries/roles.

But first a caveat. Most people that don’t work with numbers. Default to averages. While averages have their time and place. Medians are better for these kinds of analysis.

“According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the median annual income in the United States was around $53,000 (in USD) in 2018, while the median in Canada stood at just over $45,000 (in USD)”.

Start adding in cost of living differences, taxation differences ( all over the map), various tax breaks and relief.

 

[DesRicardo]

You are providing references which the hiring managers or a HR person are going to call. Which is not difficult or unheard of.

Any case, I ask you again - are immigrants lying? Especially if they interview? This "cannot verify foreign experience" is just cloak to hide behind instead of accepting that this is just racism. Also, why does the US not have this issue? How is a Canadian workplace any special? So nothing to do with verifiability or credentials.

Unless they are head hunting, they are not calling out overseas.

 

[DesRicardo]

Alrighty then. Some actual stats, without digging into specific industries/roles.

But first a caveat. Most people that don’t work with numbers. Default to averages. While averages have their time and place. Medians are better for these kinds of analysis.

“According to data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, the median annual income in the United States was around $53,000 (in USD) in 2018, while the median in Canada stood at just over $45,000 (in USD)”.

Start adding in cost of living differences, taxation differences ( all over the map), various tax breaks and relief.

You can't take an average salary because there are a ton of millionaires in America.

What i'm talking about is actual labour, like the retail sector is a large employer for both countries. What are the wages? That's why companies are moving away from certain states and heading south.

 

[Not getting younger]

You can't take an average salary because there are a ton of millionaires in America.

What i'm talking about is actual labour, like the retail sector is a large employer for both countries. What are the wages? That's why companies are moving away from certain states and heading south.

But there’s also millions of dirt poor.
That’s why I said medians are better?

Either way, yes. That’s why both countries have seen a hollowing out of the middle class but it’s not just wages……... And jobs going….

That said, capital investment ( companies expanding). The flight of capital out of Canada has been bad for years. Quite a bit to the US and elsewhere

 

[DesRicardo]

The immigrant is here. In most cases they dont even ask for references. This is about securing an interview.

That's why I said you have to blame the government. They lie to these immigrants.

 

[DesRicardo]

No they wont lol. Most employers dont check references. The candidate is here, not overseas. Also, checking references by picking up the phone or emailing them, is not a constraint.

And its dumb to even say that you become canadian enough when you have canadian experience, when what you need is a job offer to secure that canadian experience without which they will never be canadian enough.

Its racism plain and simple. Its about keeping the Canadian workplace majority white and it is gate keeping behaviour. It has nothing to do with verifying credentials. Employers themselves have defined what Canadian experience means per the ONHRC survey. And the University of Toronto has done research on this as well. It is racism. As I mentioned, you dont see this anywhere else except Canada as if the Canadian workplace is unique. Its not.

I'm sorry but a Corporation with lets say a yearly revenue of $200 million or more is not going to trust major parts of their business to some guy that hopped of a jet a few months ago.

Just look at the international student scandal where Canada Immigration let in thousands of students that faked acceptance letters.

These Corps are not here to roll the dice, they are here to make sound decisions.

And second, why should Canada not put their home grown talent first? When I graduated I had to get 5 years experience just to be considered for entry level jobs. How is that fair?

 

[DesRicardo]

But there’s also millions of dirt poor.
That’s why I said medians are better?

Either way, yes. That’s why both countries have seen a hollowing out of the middle class but it’s not just wages……... And jobs going….

That said, capital investment ( companies expanding). The flight of capital out of Canada has been bad for years. Quite a bit to the US and elsewhere

This shows a better picture. Low skilled labour in America is fairly cheap, with approx 5 states you can say is expensive.

Canada, it's expensive everywhere. A cashier in Saskatchewan make $14/hr minimum. Texas' economy is probably bigger than Canada's and it's just $7.25.

They bring in more and more, but there are budget limitations for business. Capital is limited. To me it doesn't add up on how we employ all these newcomers.

 

[DesRicardo]

AGAIN, FOR THE 100TH TIME, PER THE DEFINITIONS OF CANADIAN EXPERIENCE PROVIDED BY EMPLOYERS IN THE ONHRC SURVEY, IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN RACISM.

I just totally disagree with you on this.

I grow up with many peers from different backgrounds and they have great carriers. Why didn't racism stop them from succeeding? Because "Canadian Experience" means exactly that, Canadian Experience.

You have to understand, no one is going to put their career on the line for an unknown executive.

If a man immigrates from Poland or Ukraine and doesn't get a job he's qualified for, is that still racism to you?

 

[Darts]

At a guess NY or Chi.

Apparently, it is L.A.

 

[Not getting younger]

Apparently, it is L.A.

that is surprising, but that is a pretty far left state.

 

[Not getting younger]

Kautilya, if you look at the same ONHRC, you will see there anre all kinds of discrimination.Any idea how hard it is for white males over 50 to get interviews these days? We can pretty it up, how ever we like with buzzwords but it is what it is.

There are some roles, where I imagine having a couple years experience living/working in Canada while it may not be 100% justifiable. Yeah. If I had two equally qualified candidates in front of me, one here however long, one here less than a few years. I might choose the one with some time here. Particularly if that role involves dealing with the public and language might be an issue, or cultural issues, ( let’s say I was looking for a bank teller or low level financial adviser in Markham or even Brampton) ethnicity might very well be the difference.
*****************
No matter how we slice it and dice it, we need immigration. Always have, always will. There are 3 choices. Decline, stagnant or expand..Hopefully in time people will appreciate them more. The question today is how many per year without overloading an already over burdened system.

With dual incomes, busy lives and careers. Birth rates are going down. Their bodies, their choice. Unless your a caveman that thinks barefoot and pregnant is better..

We are living, longer and longer. Unless you’re into unassisted suicide, we have to deal with that fact too. Everyone wants to, and thinks they should live forever.

Everyone immigrants, youth/adults from small town Ontario, the Maritimes, parts of the west, and new comers (students, those on visas ), heads to the center of the universe, because that’s where the infrastructure, services and amenities, and jobs are. You made your beds…And unless your into chained labour again…..

What are you going to do about it. Because it’s you, all politicians, have pleased and pleased and want to please.