Israel at war

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Keep up with the bullshit....Hamas did this to palestinians....
If you gonna keep crying about apartheid....
From the article.

For over 2,500 years, Jews lived continuously in North Africa, the Middle East and the Gulf region the first Jewish population had already settled there at least 1,000 years before the advent of Islam.

Throughout the generations, Jews in the region were often subjected to various forms of discrimination -- and in many cases, ranked lower on the status of society than their Muslim compatriots -- but they were nevertheless loyal citizens who contributed significantly to the culture and development of their respective countries.

Despite the positive influence that Jews brought to the places where they lived, more than 850,000 Jews were forced to leave their homes in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Morocco, and several other Arab countries in the 20 years that followed the Arab-Israeli war of 1948. Another major forced migration took place from Iran in 1979–80, following the Iranian Revolution and the collapse of the shah’s regime, adding 70,000 more Jewish refugees to this number.


So when people talk about the indigenous people in the area, they are actually talking about the Jews.
 
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richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Especially when it’s confirmed by every major human rights organization.
Human Rights organizations get their info 2nd hand....most of them have tainted info...
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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The Palestinians are fighting for their freedom
And they do so by killing innocent civilians.

Sounds like you approve of it
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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So are you justifying collective punishment? That is a war crime.

The Gazans aren't an "empowered" people to make an informed choice in "elections". It is sort of like saying Putin is a democratically elected leader.
Please don't try to use reason, you'll only hurt yourself!

I am not advocating the targeting of civilians in war. That's CLEARLY not what I said. I am saying that civilians will be among the casualties, and that civilians bear some responsibility for this war, and thus, the casualties.

Also, the Russian people ARE capable of removing their leaders, democratically or not. They have done so before. All it would take is a new leader to organize them. So, yes, the Russian people also share responsibility for the actions of Putin, and if war were to visit Russian soil, civilian casualties would be partly the responsibility of Russian citizens.
 

Klatuu

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Dec 31, 2022
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And they do so by killing innocent civilians.

Sounds like you approve of it
No comparison. Multiple charts have been published in thread on the disparity in civilian deaths. Israel slaughters Palestinians in huge numbers. Palestinians don’t even come close.

If you want to go on, you can. But trying to argue that Israel doesn’t murder huge numbers of Palestinians compared to the other way around is like putting a “Kick Me” sign on your back.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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No comparison. Multiple charts have been published in thread on the disparity in civilian deaths. Israel slaughters Palestinians in huge numbers. Palestinians don’t even come close.

If you want to go on, you can. But trying to argue that Israel doesn’t murder huge numbers of Palestinians compared to the other way around is like putting a “Kick Me” sign on your back
The difference is Israel at least makes an effort to avoid civilian deaths.
Hamas intentionally kills civilians (and possibly little babies as well until we see the video)
 
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dirtyharry555

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Feb 7, 2011
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Please don't try to use reason, you'll only hurt yourself!

I am not advocating the targeting of civilians in war. That's CLEARLY not what I said. I am saying that civilians will be among the casualties, and that civilians bear some responsibility for this war, and thus, the casualties.

Also, the Russian people ARE capable of removing their leaders, democratically or not. They have done so before. All it would take is a new leader to organize them. So, yes, the Russian people also share responsibility for the actions of Putin, and if war were to visit Russian soil, civilian casualties would be partly the responsibility of Russian citizens.
The residents of Gaza have no more sway over Hamas than an average Mexican has over the cartel in his community who threatens his and his family's life if he doesn't keep his head down.
 

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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The difference is Israel at least makes an effort to avoid civilian deaths.
Hamas intentionally kills civilians (and possibly little babies as well until we see the video)
No. The numbers prove otherwise. Ethnic cleansing and apartheid are by definition directed at Palestinian civilians. Palestinian civilians have been routinely killed for 50 plus years.
 
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Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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The residents of Gaza have no more sway over Hamas than an average Mexican has over the cartel in his community who threatens his and his family's life if he doesn't keep his head down.
Wrong. An INDIVIDUAL can't bring down a government (or a cartel) on his own but a large group of citizens certainly can. All that is required is leadership.
 

dirtyharry555

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Feb 7, 2011
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Wrong. An INDIVIDUAL can't bring down a government (or a cartel) on his own but a large group of citizens certainly can. All that is required is leadership.
Much easier said than done, especially if there is an external government supporting the organization, and some citizens are sympathetic to it insofar as they have anybody else defending their geopolitical interests.
 

Dutch Oven

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Feb 12, 2019
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I am not talking about the Russians. I am talking about the Gazans. But even in the case of the Russians, you know their elections are a hogwash. Its rigged! You cannot be implying they run free and fair elections like we do in Canada.

I understand and acknowledge that civilians will die in war.

But you said, that the populace is responsible or atleast shares part of the responsibility for electing Hamas. You know Hamas is a terrorist group, and you know they violently ousted Fatah. So any elections in Gaza were a sham. So clearly the Palestinian civilians in Gaza do not share the blame for what the Hamas did. They simply suffer the consequences of Hamas' actions. Which is why this is a tragedy. But if you don't agree with that, and say Gazans are atleast somewhat responsible, then that justifies collective punishment and you'd be saying the same thing many right wing Israelis have been spewing on social media that "There are no innocents in Gaza!!".
Your thinking is undisciplined.

Of course there are some "innocents" in Gaza. Children obviously. The mentally ill. Etc. But the able bodied and sound of mind adult citizens knew their government was Hamas (whether by way of legitimate election or otherwise), and knew the ways of Hamas, and what those ways would lead to. They did not organize against them, and there would have been PLENTY of assistance provided to them had they done so. They could even be co-operating now with the Israelis to identify the exact location of Hamas forces, strongholds and supplies. It doesn't appear that they are.

Sometimes it takes losing a war for a population to rid itself of bad leadership. That's what it took in Germany and Japan. Looks like that's what it's going to take in Gaza.
 
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Dutch Oven

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There will be unbelievable pushback on this. Bullying a disabled black woman will galvanize public opinion. Everyone is growing angry with this attempt to silence Canadians. There will be lawsuits by many individuals.
Yes, the pushback will be from people who are "unbelievable".
 
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Dutch Oven

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Much easier said than done, especially if there is an external government supporting the organization, and some citizens are sympathetic to it insofar as they have anybody else defending their geopolitical interests.
Many things in life aren't easy. Sometime you need a lot of motivation to do the right thing. In this case, the motivation to live, rather than die under the despotic rule of maniacs.
 
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richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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No comparison. Multiple charts have been published in thread on the disparity in civilian deaths. Israel slaughters Palestinians in huge numbers. Palestinians don’t even come close.

If you want to go on, you can. But trying to argue that Israel doesn’t murder huge numbers of Palestinians compared to the other way around is like putting a “Kick Me” sign on your back.
not for the lack of effort...Hamas launched thousands of rockets to Israel...that shows you how much damage they want to inflict on Israel...imagine if Israel launch the same amount of rockets to Gaza...
 
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