Two Biological Males Allowed to Fight in Female Div. At Paris Olympics

The Oracle

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Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
You're right. There is no evidence of sext tests or hormone testing done my the IBA. They just made that shit up because she beat the favorite of their Oligarch president and the Gazprom funders.

It's amazing how easily people fall for the most transparent Russian propaganda.
Just stop.....There was no sex testing or hormone testing done by the IOC.

The biological women never has a chance.
 
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bver_hunter

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This eloquently sums up the Far Right Conspiracy Theory:

Most recently, Algerian boxer Imane Khelif has become the target of virulent attacks from conservatives accusing her of being transgender, even though she is a cisgender woman hailing from a country where it is illegal to identify as trans and transition. Figures as large as Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance have fallaciously added to the fire.

Khelif is one example of how the conspiracy theory largely impacts Black women, such as Michelle Obama and Serena Williams, whom euro-centric beauty standards and the institutions upholding them deem to have "less feminine" features. Still, the "investigations" are far-reaching and have impacted celebrities such as Taylor Swift and, bizarrely, right-wing darlings like Kyle Rittenhouse.
 

Knuckle Ball

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You're right. There is no evidence of sext tests or hormone testing done my the IBA. They just made that shit up because she beat the favorite of their Oligarch president and the Gazprom funders.

It's amazing how easily people fall for the most transparent Russian propaganda.
Yes…and it’s always the same people who fall for it.
 
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The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
People don't realize that in the real world, testosterone levels in women are a spectrum, just like how some men have more estrogen than others.
''A normal testosterone level for you will depend on your gender and age. Normal total testosterone results in adult men: Ages 19 to 49 -- 249 - 836 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL) Ages 50 and older -- 193 - 740 ng/dL.''

''Normal total testosterone results in adult women: Ages 19 to 49 -- 8 - 48 ng/dL. Ages 50 and older -- 2 - 41 ng/dL''

The IOC never tested their female boxers for hormones or sex....They relied on passport which is self reported.
 
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DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
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People don't realize that in the real world, testosterone levels in women are a spectrum, just like how some men have more estrogen than others.
That's funny because if a *man* has elevated testosterone he's immediately banned until further investigation.

*Due to nonsensical modern day politics, the definition of "man" may vary.
 
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DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
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And to make this fair, I think all Olympic athletes should to this test.

It's not about targeting 1 or 2 individuals.
 
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SchlongConery

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I haven't read this thread so can anyone let me know if this was a true cockfight or just more arguing?
 

SchlongConery

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"While I agree biological males have no place in women's sports... The agenda tells me to shut my mouth and fall in line." :censored:
You poor thing...

Who is "the agenda"?

Anyone stopping you posting here?

You are free to express your opinions but tbh, most people really don't give as much of a fuck about the opinions of others.
 
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Knuckle Ball

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Lia Thomas and the long tradition of 'gender policing' female athletes
For as long as women have excelled at sports in the modern era, their gender and sexuality have faced fierce scrutiny, historians say.
By Julie Compton
March 16, 2022, 3:10 PM EDT

In a February 1937 issue of Look magazine, a photo of American Olympic runner Helen Stephens appeared below the caption “What Do You Think? Is This a Man Or a Woman?” The image and the accompanying query were part of a larger feature titled: “When Is a Woman Actually a Woman? Today’s Chief Worry Among Athletic Officials.”

In the aftermath, Stephens — a two-time Olympic champion who never lost a race — lost valuable career and scholarship opportunities, said Sharon Kinney-Hanson, the author of “The Life of Helen Stephens: The Fulton Flash.”

“You think about what feminine standards were in her era: It was the glamor, you had to be gorgeous, you had to be big-chested and curvaceous, and Helen was not interested in that,” Kinney-Hanson said. “She was interested in sports, making a career of it.”

Image: Olympic Sprinter Helen Stephens Running on Track Field
Helen Stephens at Brown University Field in Providence, R.I., on July 4, 1936.Bettmann Archive / Getty Images
While much has changed for female athletes since Stephens’ day, suspicion surrounding their gender and sexuality — from offensive remarks to sex verification tests — remains. Several historians argue that the heated debate surrounding transgender college swimmer Lia Thomas, whose record-breaking season has thrust her unwillingly into the national spotlight, is a continuation of that century-old legacy.

“Historically, there’s just been a concern that sports would masculinize women or that women might either feminize sports or that you would lose gender distinctions that many people valued,” said Susan Cahn, a history professor at the University of Buffalo and the author of “Coming on Strong: Gender and Sexuality in Women’s Sport.”

She added that trans and intersex athletes — those who are born with reproductive or sexual anatomy that does not fit the typical “male” or “female” categories — further blur boundaries and raise questions about how separate and distinct sex and gender really are.

“The dislike of women who appear masculine or seem to compete in ways that are masculine extends to transgender women and intersex people competing as women,” Cahn said.

Sex verification tests
By the 1940s, sporting authorities began conducting ad hoc sex testing on female athletes whose gender was deemed suspicious, according to Human Rights Watch, which said it typically consisted of physical and visual exams by doctors.

During the Cold War era of the 1960s, Soviet track and field stars Irina and Tamara Press together set at least 22 world records, a feat that triggered slews of “negative commentary” from the media, in which the sisters were “constantly compared to male athletes,” said Lindsay Parks Pieper, an associate professor of sport management at the University of Lynchburg in Virginia and the author of “Sex Testing: Gender Policing in Women’s Sports.”

Amid fears that Eastern European teams could be harboring male impostors, sports governing bodies, including the International Association of Athletics Federations (now World Athletics) and the International Olympic Committee started to require chromosomal testing of all female athletes to ensure fair competition, a controversial practice that was eventually banned by the late ’90s.

“They found that it was essentially impossible to use one single cross qualifier to determine an athlete’s sex,” Pieper said, referring to a range of genetic tests used by sporting authorities.

However, sporting authorities still reserve the right to test female athletes suspected of having physical advantages, over concerns that they either could be doping or might be intersex.

By the 2010s, sporting authorities had begun zeroing in on athletes’ testosterone levels, with much of their suspicion falling on high-performing athletes of color from the Global South, Pieper said. South African middle distance runner Caster Semenya and Indian sprinter Dutee Chand, for example, were required to undergo tests over concerns they were too fast.

Caster Semenya competes in the women's 1500-meter final at the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games on April 10, 2018.Saeed Khan / AFP via Getty Images
Semenya, in particular, came under a media storm over her muscular build. After Semenya won the 800 meters at the world track and field championships in Berlin in 2009, a Time magazine storyreminiscent of Look’s 1937 spread on Helen Stephens featured Semenya’s photo and asked, “Could This Women’s World Champ Be a Man?”

After she was barred from competing in 400-meter-to-1-mile races unless she medically reduced her testosterone, Semenya, who is legally female, took her case to the international Court of Arbitration for Sport in 2019, claiming discrimination. According to court documents reported on by TheAssociated Press, World Athletics argued that Semenya is “biologically male,” a claim that she said “hurts more than I can put in words.”

After she lost her case, Semenya was unable to compete in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics and is now challenging the ruling in the European Court of Human Rights.

“This fight is not just about me, it’s about taking a stand and fighting for dignity, equality and the human rights of women in sport,” Semenya wrote on Twitter in February 2021. “All we ask is to be able to run free as the strong and fearless women we are!!”

Although normal testosterone levels can vary widely among men (around 300 to 1,000 nanograms per deciliter), only female athletes are subjected to such tests. Pieper said sports in the U.S. have traditionally served as a space for men to cultivate and prove masculinity and that high-performing male athletes have never been viewed as suspicious, regardless of their performances.

“If a woman is good at sports,” she said, people feel a need “to question why that is.”

'Homophobia as a weapon'
Scrutiny surrounding the gender of female athletes has often gone hand in hand with questions about their sexuality.

Mildred “Babe” Didrikson Zaharias, a multisport athlete who won two gold medals in the 1932 Summer Olympics, was subjected to both, Pieper said. Sports journalists, she said, frequently derided Didrikson as a “muscle moll,” a term used to describe women who were considered “sexually deviant” or lesbians.

“Those were accusations lobbed at her as a way, I would argue, to downplay her athleticism or take away from her athleticism, and then you see that continued throughout history,” Pieper said.

By the 1980s, sports journalists had begun fixating on tennis star Martina Navratilova’s muscular physique, often describing her as “bionic,” with some even claiming she should be competing in the men’s tournaments, Cahn said.

Martina Navratilova plays Chris Evert in the Women's Singles Final at the French Open Tennis Championship in Paris on June 9, 1984.Steve Powell / Getty Images
After the media outed Navratilova and fellow tennis legend Billie Jean King as gay, a fear of lesbianism began to grip the world of women’s sports. King and Navratilova lost valuable sponsorship opportunities and faced the potential ends of their careers.

Even before they were outed, sporting officials had long tried to squash the stereotype that female athletes were lesbians by, among other things, requiring that they wear ladylike uniforms, according to historians. Aside from fighting stereotypes that they simply could not be good athletes, Cahn said, female athletes were also under “real pressure to prove femininity.”

“I think the fear was that women would claim space in women’s sports and would try to compete and would someday compete as equals or near equals” to men, she said. “And so, homophobia was a weapon just to dismiss women and to denigrate women athletes.”

Worries about lesbianism went beyond athletes, Pieper said.

“Coaches, largely in the ’80s, would accuse other coaches of being lesbian as a negative characteristic to kind of scare athletes to come to their schools, to come onto their team,” she said.

Blurring the 'boundaries of gender'
The first transgender female athlete to be thrown into the national spotlight was Renée Richards, who is believed to be the first trans woman to play a professional sport.

Richards sued the U.S. Tennis Association in 1977 over a requirement that women must undergo genetic testing to compete in the U.S. Open. She won the case but lost a number of matches that year, including matches against Navratilova and Britain’s Virginia Wade.

Nevertheless, Richards ignited fears that trans women would “herald the end of women’s sports as we know it,” said Joanna Harper, a medical physicist and the author of “Sporting Gender: The History, Science, and Stories of Transgender and Intersex Athletes.”

“Renée was the pioneer trans woman. She was the first one,” Harper said. “That will always be the most important thing that she has done.”

Decades after Richards became the first, only a handful of trans athletes have managed to break sports barriers. In 2019, track star CeCé Telfer became the first openly trans person to win an NCAA title. And last year, New Zealand weightlifter Laurel Hubbard became the first out trans woman to compete in the Olympics, where she did not win any medals. Fewer than 30 trans athletes have competed openly in the NCAA, according to the LGBTQ sports publication Out Sports, and few have made headlines.

Among the few is trans swimmer Lia Thomas of the University of Pennsylvania, who broke records at the Ivy League Championships last month and is scheduled to compete in the NCAA Women’s Division I Swimming and Diving Championships, which begin Wednesday in Atlanta. Thomas hasattracted intense media scrutiny over her appearance, with conservative news sites, in particular, referring to her as a man, using her former name (also known as “deadnaming”) and featuring photos of her from before her transition.

Though headlines frequently portray her as unbeatable, Thomas has had her share of losses, including at a January meet against Yale University and Dartmouth College where she came in sixth in the 100-yard freestyle, losing to four cisgender women and Yale's Iszac Henig, a transgender man who has not yet started testosterone.

“I’m a woman, just like anybody else on the team,” Thomas, 22, told Sports Illustrated this month in response to the criticism. “I’ve always viewed myself as just a swimmer. It’s what I’ve done for so long; it’s what I love.”

In what was seen largely as a victory for trans athletes, the International Olympic Committee announced a newframework in November that scrapped requirements for “medically unnecessary” procedures and treatment that placed limits on testosterone levels, although it left requirements up to individual sports governing bodies. Last month, amid growing negative media commentary about Thomas, USA Swimming, the sport’s national governing body, switched its policy to require elite trans female athletes to suppress their testosterone for three years, up from the previous one year, a change many of Thomas’ supporters suspected was an attempt to prevent her from competing in the NCAA Championships. The NCAA has not adopted the change, meaning Thomas, who began transitioning in May 2019, will be allowed to compete.

Harper said testosterone-based policies for trans athletes in general do not amount to gender policing. However, she called USA Swimming’s new 36-month policy “problematic,” because a trans woman’s hemoglobin — blood proteins responsible for carrying oxygen to the muscles — drop to similar levels as in cisgender women in under a year of hormone therapy, causing them to lose a significant amount of endurance.

While the science is limited, recent studies have found that trans women tend, on average, to maintain an athletic edge even after a year of hormone therapy, despite losing much of their muscle mass. The subjects of these studies were not elite or professional athletes, but the findings do throw into question how much time, following hormone therapy, trans athletes should have to wait before they compete.

“The question isn’t ‘Do trans women have advantages?’ Because yes, that is so obviously true,” Harper said, adding that it iss normal for athletes to have certain advantages and that any advantages trans women have are not necessarily unfair. “But can trans women and cis women compete against one another in meaningful competition? That’s the important question. That’s the interesting question. And that’s a question that we don’t have a 100 percent firm answer yet.”

'How can you compete if you’re not allowed to win?'
Despite decades of scrutiny, female athletes have seen the world of professional sports change dramatically since Helen Stephens’ infamous Look magazine photo.

For example, this year’s U.S. Olympic team had the most female athletes in the history of the Winter Games, and an increasing number of openly LGBTQ Olympians have participated in the Olympics, with queer women typically far outnumbering their male counterparts. And just last month, the U.S. Women’s National Team won a major legal battle against the U.S. Soccer Federation, reaching a landmark agreement that will ensure equal pay for male and female soccer players.

Despite gains, female athletes still face obstacles, especially when it comes to financing, equal pay and media coverage. And some trans advocates say the focus on this small subset of athletes — which has culminated in 11 states’ passing bills to ban trans women and girls from female sports teams in just the past two years — overshadows those other issues.

Cahn said that while there are legitimate questions to be asked when it comes to trans female athletes and competitive fairness, conservatives are focusing on transgender athletes to “draw the line and defend traditional notions of gender.”

“They’re doing it in the name of fairness for girls, and it’s people who’ve never fought for gender equity or equality or to increase the budget for women’s sports,” she said.

Meanwhile, outrage and speculation over Thomas continue to garner headlines, with many of her critics expecting her to smash records in the NCAA finals this week. Harper said to expect “a huge outcry” if she wins any of her events.

“It’s a truism of trans athletes that we can compete in women’s sports as long as we don’t win,” said Harper, who is trans. “If we win, then it’s problematic. And, of course, how can you compete if you’re not allowed to win?”

 
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gollumtroll

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Crazy how people pinned her as male and just ran with the story without doing any due diligence.
Imane (and Lin Yu-Ting) is indeed the genotype male (xy chromosome). At birth in many countries including Canada we use the phenotype to assign the sex at birth. Phenotype are observations on the outwards features and characteristic of the person. Imane at birth was incorrectly assigned the sex female based on what doctors (no fault of their own if they are not required to perform chromosome testing) perceived to be a vagina. In fact it was actually a very-undervirilized penis due to the condition known as 5-alpha reductase deficiency (5ARD). Those with the condition 5ARD have male anatomy. They have testicles. And those testicles produce testosterone. This testestone during puberty separates male development from female development. But as well after puberty males walk around with signicantly more testestone than females. Otherwise those with 5ARD do not have any female anatomy (uterus, ovaries, etc).

This is why in sports we have the Male and Female category. However seeing we use the language "Men" and "Woman" category, we have allowed gender ideology politics to ruin the integrity of sports.

You are in denial that there is a IOC coverup. So far the IOC has used their powers to discredit the IBA. All the experts in the field of Science are speaking up.
 
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gollumtroll

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Here is an example of 5-alpha reductase deficiency (5ARD).

5ARD example.png
 
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