Lots of politics as well. Since Russia is involved in the IBA and is pissed at the IOC for criticizing the IBA.
Two Biological Males Allowed to Fight in Female Div. At Paris Olympics
- Thread starter TomFord1980
- Start date
A failed drug test gives a person an unfair advantage. I'm not saying it's the same thing, I'm saying the conclusions are the same. We are trying to catch and filter unfair advantages.
And you can't amend anything. You said what you said.
She did fail an eligibility test. They just removed the governing committee and changed to rules. It's up to the IOC to be fully transparent with full details.
Misinformation persists online after super-brief Olympic boxing bout
How 46 seconds in the ring ignited a firestorm
How 46 seconds in the ring ignited a firestorm
Are the attacks on Imane Khelif driven by racism and “white women’s tears?”
True but the facts available in this case seem to support the IOC decision.
Indeed. I was skeptical of the IOC also but after looking into it, the IBA make the IOC look like choir boys when it comes to corruption.
How do you figure that? They don't test for hormones with women.
They are not transgenders, they are born females with abnormalities, high testosterone for example.
The IBA cannot release the gender test due to confidentiality around personal health records. So yes there are actually test. But they cannot go into specific details. And because of this the IOC is taking advantage of the situation....
They did an actual test. But they cannot release the detailed results due to privacy around personal health records.
IOC: If you're passport says you are a woman, you are a woman.
That's their "science" behind all of this.
That's their "science" behind all of this.
This will cause some meltdowns.
''
The IBA asked the boxers’ countries to give permission for the genetic test results to be released. They've again refused. They know these guys will be disqualified. And the IOC lets it happen. The two boxers are male despite both living their lives socially as female. How do we know this? In 2023, they failed to meet the eligibility criteria for participating in the women's competition laid out by IBA regulations. After meticulous tests and review they were found to have competitive advantages. They were not testosterone tests, leaving only a genetic test to be failed. That's how we know. Male levels of testosterone during puberty is what creates the primary advantage. The problem in the DSDs that are relevant to sport is one of two things: 1) Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. You produce T in the male levels because you're male. You've got testes but you can't use that T in the typical way. Think of T like a key that has to unlock a door in order for the things to happen inside the room. In some people the lock is dysfunctional -- the receptor for the testosterone -- and so they may have male levels of T but they can't create all the male development that is necessary. It can be partial or complete, so it exists along a spectrum. 2) 5-alpha Reductase Deficiency (5ARD), which is an enzyme responsible for turning a portion of your T into another hormone called DHT (dihydrate testosterone). So you've got this pool of T and want to convert a little bit to DHT. DHT specializes in driving the formation of the primary sex characteristics - your reproductive systems. Your external and internal genitalia are created by DHT. People with 5ARD deficiency don't have the enzyme and can't make DHT. As a result they've got all the T of a typical male, and they can use that it in the typical way, but they don't have the ability to produce the primary sex characteristics - the external genitalia of males. You will then have an individual who is genetically/chromosomally male who produces testes with high levels of T, but something in the development is atypical, and that's the difference of sex development. When that child is born and the doctor looks at this child who externally looks completely like a girl, he is classified as a girl and raised as a girl... and then later in life, this rare issue of biological reality becomes apparent. The most ardent supporters of inclusion need to recognize that T is a performance enhancing hormone, and a male's ability to use their T have all kinds of advantages (e.g. strength, musculature, cardiovascular, skeletal etc.) which add up to massive performance differences. Everyone who hasn't been brainwashed in school knows this. The central point of this topic is fairness and safety. The most concerning is in high contact sports like boxing, which would be the most dangerous for women. The solution from the governing bodies to be fair and inclusive is to simply lower T. The problem is no study has ever shown that you can take away the effects of T on male biology. Reducing them is not nearly enough, so the fix doesn't work. The IOC do not agree, hence the unfortunate situation heard around the world. The IOC only goes by what is on an athlete's passport, which is irresponsible. There's more to it than that but in short, the IOC's standards clearly seem to favor "Inclusion" over biological reality at the expense of fairness and safety. UPDATE: A Hungarian sports official has come out and stated that Imane Khelif is not female. István Kovács, the European Vice President of the WBO and former Secretary General of the IBA, told Hungarian press that he had warned the International Olympic Committee about males participating in women’s boxing as early as 2022, but that nothing was done. In a shocking statement made to Magyar Nemzet yesterday, Kovács confirmed the speculation surrounding the Algerian boxer, adding that it had been known as early as 2022 that Khelif was biologically male. “The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is biologically male,” Kovács said in an interview with Magyar Nemzet, adding that a total of five boxers had been examined including Khelif by the International Boxing Association, and all of them “were indeed men.” Kovács asserted that he personally reported the shocking result immediately to the International Olympics Committee, “but as unbelievable as it is, they have not responded to this to this day.”
The IBA asked the boxers’ countries to give permission for the genetic test results to be released. They've again refused. They know these guys will be disqualified. And the IOC lets it happen. The two boxers are male despite both living their lives socially as female. How do we know this? In 2023, they failed to meet the eligibility criteria for participating in the women's competition laid out by IBA regulations. After meticulous tests and review they were found to have competitive advantages. They were not testosterone tests, leaving only a genetic test to be failed. That's how we know. Male levels of testosterone during puberty is what creates the primary advantage. The problem in the DSDs that are relevant to sport is one of two things: 1) Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. You produce T in the male levels because you're male. You've got testes but you can't use that T in the typical way. Think of T like a key that has to unlock a door in order for the things to happen inside the room. In some people the lock is dysfunctional -- the receptor for the testosterone -- and so they may have male levels of T but they can't create all the male development that is necessary. It can be partial or complete, so it exists along a spectrum. 2) 5-alpha Reductase Deficiency (5ARD), which is an enzyme responsible for turning a portion of your T into another hormone called DHT (dihydrate testosterone). So you've got this pool of T and want to convert a little bit to DHT. DHT specializes in driving the formation of the primary sex characteristics - your reproductive systems. Your external and internal genitalia are created by DHT. People with 5ARD deficiency don't have the enzyme and can't make DHT. As a result they've got all the T of a typical male, and they can use that it in the typical way, but they don't have the ability to produce the primary sex characteristics - the external genitalia of males. You will then have an individual who is genetically/chromosomally male who produces testes with high levels of T, but something in the development is atypical, and that's the difference of sex development. When that child is born and the doctor looks at this child who externally looks completely like a girl, he is classified as a girl and raised as a girl... and then later in life, this rare issue of biological reality becomes apparent. The most ardent supporters of inclusion need to recognize that T is a performance enhancing hormone, and a male's ability to use their T have all kinds of advantages (e.g. strength, musculature, cardiovascular, skeletal etc.) which add up to massive performance differences. Everyone who hasn't been brainwashed in school knows this. The central point of this topic is fairness and safety. The most concerning is in high contact sports like boxing, which would be the most dangerous for women. The solution from the governing bodies to be fair and inclusive is to simply lower T. The problem is no study has ever shown that you can take away the effects of T on male biology. Reducing them is not nearly enough, so the fix doesn't work. The IOC do not agree, hence the unfortunate situation heard around the world. The IOC only goes by what is on an athlete's passport, which is irresponsible. There's more to it than that but in short, the IOC's standards clearly seem to favor "Inclusion" over biological reality at the expense of fairness and safety. UPDATE: A Hungarian sports official has come out and stated that Imane Khelif is not female. István Kovács, the European Vice President of the WBO and former Secretary General of the IBA, told Hungarian press that he had warned the International Olympic Committee about males participating in women’s boxing as early as 2022, but that nothing was done. In a shocking statement made to Magyar Nemzet yesterday, Kovács confirmed the speculation surrounding the Algerian boxer, adding that it had been known as early as 2022 that Khelif was biologically male. “The problem was not with the level of Khelif’s testosterone, because that can be adjusted nowadays, but with the result of the gender test, which clearly revealed that the Algerian boxer is biologically male,” Kovács said in an interview with Magyar Nemzet, adding that a total of five boxers had been examined including Khelif by the International Boxing Association, and all of them “were indeed men.” Kovács asserted that he personally reported the shocking result immediately to the International Olympics Committee, “but as unbelievable as it is, they have not responded to this to this day.”
