Gizzlaine Maxwell to be pardoned.

squeezer

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America would elect Trump again if they could which speaks to the fact that the American electorate feels that he is the better choice than the alternatives, and the best that the GOP can come up with. This is the current state that America finds itself in .
This is America‘s problem.
I think it would depend on who the Dems run as their leader and how the leader runs the election, which to date hasn't been chosen. Add in now that Trump's health is in question, guaranteed he's lost some righties over the Epstein debacle, I don't think it would be a slam dunk for the orange clown. Plus, he is not allowed to run again, but hey, if he's able health wise, you can't count him not trying to pull that card.

I'd like to see them choose Gavin as the next democratic candidate, but we shall see.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Doesn't the image say that he's only at 63% support with republicans?
It says (and you can verify by watching the first few minutes of the video) that 63% of Republicans have STRONG support for him.
That's higher than any GOP president at this point in their term going back decades.
It isn't double his previous term's approval, of course.
It also isn't the number for general approval of the broader public.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Trump was a Democrat when he patronized Epstein’s Island . Trump’s social circle was other Democrats like the Clintons at that time and the GOP was a bad word.
Trump’s metamorphosis to GOP POTUS twice cannot erase his past life that he drags around like a ball and chain but the MAGAs for most part are so dumb that Trump will survive the Epstein association.

This fellow Trump is the greatest America con man since PT Barnum.
I do think that the "Trump was a Democrat" line is what will be used if ever Trump's support crumbles.
It's such an easy out psychologically for his followers to use to memory hole him like they did with Bush II.
 

dirtydaveiii

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Mar 21, 2018
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Fox fake news in full damage control. 1st 10 stories are about Obama 'hoax' against TACO. what a fucking joke
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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And only 63% among GOP voters?
trump is not doing well.
No. 63% of strong support among them -> a record high
His overall support among republicans in that survey was over 90%.

The more recent survey I linked to didn't have numbers broken down by party affiliation.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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America would elect Trump again if they could which speaks to the fact that the American electorate feels that he is the better choice than the alternatives, and the best that the GOP can come up with. This is the current state that America finds itself in .
This is America‘s problem.
It could, but it is far from certain.
He has never received a majority of votes in a general election.
He only won the popular vote 1 time out of 3 and that by less than 2 percent.

He absolutely could win another election, but no one should confidently predict he would.
 
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squeezer

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My bad...for Trump. he's beating his approval rating from his first term by double...according to CNN.
I will just leave this here for your entertainment enjoyment Ritch.
‘Even Steve Bannon’ is worried: Trump disapproval soars amid Epstein controversy
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I'm seeing a lot of coverage in all venues regardless of political alignment. It's a titillating story. I myself usually skip over it.
You are now.
It broke out because of the MAGA reaction, and now the vultures are circling.

But for the last several years it has been big in one subculture, and very minor everywhere else.

You can't understand what is happening now without understanding that.

Let's face it. Liberals are having some fun with the Epstein story.
Of course they are.
Trump is being bit on the ass by something he and his supporters encouraged.
Because the outrage is coming from his own side and wasn't started by Liberals and Democrats, it has more sticking power than otherwise.
I'm not surprised at all that people are pouncing on it to see what advantage they can gain from it.

Some conservatives are angry, but my guess is nothing much more comes of it. If you say it's the Left's payback for the far right conspiracy folks, that's fine. I don't think Epstein really factored into any electoral results nor will it.
Epstein factored quite a bit into the electoral results.
It was a big part of the pitch to those disaffected voters who believe the whole system is corrupt and Trump would fix that.

Might very little come from it?
Quite possible.
The right wing has shown a VERY strong tendency to just go along and close ranks and obey orders.
The fact this broke containment clearly caught lots of the left off-guard.
The immediate assumption was that it wouldn't last a day since "Trump lied about something he claimed to care about" doesn't usually stick at all and is immediately forgiven.
There is a strong chance that they succeed in getting it under control. I wouldn't bet against it.
That it takes a few weeks instead of a few days probably doesn't matter much.
It is still noticeable in that it has rarely taken this long or been this difficult for Trump and co.

I just think now it's a tired story that's run its course.
Not surprising.
You didn't pay attention to it before.
It seems sordid and trashy, which you don't seem to relish in from my recollection, and it hurts Trump and the GOP.
That's a perfect recipe to find it tired and annoying and want it to go away.

The Trump-Wall Street Journal squabble is a derivative story.
It is, but it may be a more interesting one long term.
Right wing media hasn't been willing to go after Trump very hard and has usually backed off fairly quickly when facing push back.
Right now, the WSJ is saying, "you want to sue? go ahead".
That's at least interesting, but again it all may blow over fairly quickly.

PS- Of course, it's always interesting to come here and find those with modest command of information individually breaking news on Epstein, Trump, Clinton, etc. that no major outlets have.
Oh, TERB always has secret information that no one else has.
It's just the way of things.
 

lomotil

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Mar 14, 2004
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Oblivion
It could, but it is far from certain.
He has never received a majority of votes in a general election.
He only won the popular vote 1 time out of 3 and that by less than 2 percent.

He absolutely could win another election, but no one should confidently predict he would.
It will be a cold day in hell before the MAGAs vote for a Democrat. Trump’s choking and spluttering would affect the swing voters .
The MAGAs would vote likely for a new further right party than go Democrat.
Like him or hate him, Trump is one resilient SOB, a sewer rat and master conman over his flock, but he is not immortal.
 

WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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I'd like to see them choose Gavin as the next democratic candidate, but we shall see.
Gavin would not be that popular nationally. He has a record in California that won't help him beyond hardcore blue states.

I do think however think he's the front-runner for the Democratic nomination at this early stage. And it might shock everyone how fast and hard he will run to the center if he is the nominee. California progressives brought Gavin to the dance and he's going to dance with them until it's not politically expedient anymore.

His record will still be an albatross. So Gavin would need a timely recession during 2028 or a Republican nominee that self-immolates. That might be the case for all the progressive Democrats pursuing the nomination.
 
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WyattEarp

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Epstein factored quite a bit into the electoral results.
It was a big part of the pitch to those disaffected voters who believe the whole system is corrupt and Trump would fix that.
Yeah, that's what 2024 was about. It had nothing to do with Biden's cognitive decline and the Democrats installing a weak candidate at the last minute.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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It will be a cold day in hell before the MAGAs vote for a Democrat.
Absolutely agree.
But they aren't a majority or even a plurality themselves.
Also, all evidence indicates there is a sizable number of MAGA voters who don't come out for most elections, just ones with Trump.
So even a small drop off in their willingness to actually bother coming out can be significant.

Trump’s choking and spluttering would affect the swing voters.
Indeed.
And, as I pointed out, his margin of victory was very small, so it doesn't take many swing voters changing to swing the election.
There aren't many swing voters to begin with, but they do exist and with narrow margins are important.

The MAGAs would vote likely for a new further right party than go Democrat.
Agreed.
MAGA people (not just people who voted for Trump) aren't voting Democrat any time soon.

Like him or hate him, Trump is one resilient SOB, a sewer rat and master conman over his flock, but he is not immortal.
He has been a political force.
Also, any candidate of one of the two major parties can win. Given the presidential system and a very polarized electorate, once you've gotten the nomination, you have a shot at the general.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Gavin would not be that popular nationally. He has a record in California that won't help him beyond hardcore blue states.
I'm inclined to agree.
People from New York and California have a leg up on being "national candidates" because the media gravitates to them, but that often does not translate to real national approval.
That's not even a "their record doesn't help beyond hardcore blue states" thing, it is just that under-performing in a hardcore blue state doesn't mean you lose it.
(I think you see similar thing in Florida and Texas as well among Red states, where someone can get national attention fairly easily but it doesn't always translate to a good national profile when they try and make the move.)

I do think however think he's the front-runner for the Democratic nomination at this early stage. And it might shock everyone how fast and hard he will run to the center if he is the nominee. California progressives brought Gavin to the dance and he's going to dance with them until it's not politically expedient anymore.
I don't think it would shock anyone who pays attention.
He has never been a hardcore progressive and earlier this year he ran hard to the right because that's where he thought the zeitgeist was.
He has re-positioned himself to be more "fighter against Trump" right now, which doesn't require focusing on policy much. That leaves his options open for later.

I think he's viewed by most of the more left side of the Democratic party voters as a centrist and not very progressive at all.
Being from California, the national press (especially the right-wing media) will portray him as a massive progressive but they just do that with any California Democrat.

His record will still be an albatross. So Gavin would need a timely recession during 2028 or a Republican nominee that self-immolates. That might be the case for all the progressive Democrats pursuing the nomination.
Every Democratic candidate would be happy with a GOP candidate who self-destructs, obviously.
A general mood of dissatisfaction with the current regime helps the outside party as well.
I don't think any Democrat requires that to win - as I've said repeatedly, once someone is elected to the nomination of either major party, they have a legitimate shot at winning.

Eventually that might change, but as long as the polarization is as it is right now, there is always a shot.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Yeah, that's what 2024 was about. It had nothing to do with Biden's cognitive decline and the Democrats installing a weak candidate at the last minute.
You're usually not the one to be disingenuous and play stupid.
No one was saying Epstein was the only important thing and nothing else mattered.
But Epstein was a huge deal on the right and part of the general "all the elites are corrupt and only Trump can fight it" narrative. A narrative that was very effective in getting the voters who don't normally turn out to turn out.
You can see how important it was to the central mythology by the reaction happening now.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Why don't you go and look for yourself? Ot better yet your mom can read it to you while feeding you warm milk and cookies
So aggressive.

Trump has brought up a bunch of random Obama "hoaxes" in the last couple of days while flailing and I have no particular desire to go look at Fox news.
Looks like the winner here is "Russia, Russia, Russia".
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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If you weren't in those circles, it probably wasn't a big deal.
It was HUGE on a lot of the right wing MAGA information bubble.
It's almost entirely a right-wing phenomena.
That it was so big in a specific sub-culture is why I think it has broken out in such a weird way here.
For lots of people, it just wasn't that big a deal, but it is a huge deal to a big, loud, important subgroup of Trump's most solid supporters.
That's why them freaking out about it has broken through in a way something else might not.
The affinity group power is working against him for once.



Exactly. And that group happens to be highly concentrated in the right wing pro-Trump population in this case.



Not really relevant, at this point.
The "did he or didn't he commit suicide" is secondary to the "who are the elites you're protecting" kind of discussion right now.
The Epstein talk came to the forefront around the time time the 'grab them by the pussy' audio tape came out and there was a big look into whether trump was a serial rapist or not. Somehow they managed to ride through that and the Epstein talk became separated into 'pedophile elitists' that trump was supposed to get out of. I'm sill not sure how they managed to spin that all, but it was all there from day one. The audio tape, the 25 allegations of sexual assault and the Epstein links.

Except now its become just one of a few things that MAGA is realizing was a con.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Yes, but not necessarily there for sex either.
He was charged in 2008 and released in 2010.
He spent years trying to rehabilitate his public image.
You and I may agree he shouldn't have been able to rehabilitate his image as much as he did, but it did happen.
So data in 2016 showing people visiting shows people with bad judgment I think, and is - of course - worth looking into, but I don't think you can immediately leap to the conclusion they were there for underage sex.
I don't really buy that line. Sure, he was trying to fix his public image but his core business seemed to be grifting, parties and blackmail. His ability to stay out of the limelight was probably more key than having a public image in the first place. Keeping the Les Wexner's happy and himself out of the law was his business. trump and Wexner publicly abandoned him after the first trial but the 2019 trials show he didn't really change his operation.
 
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