Just a Reminder that Agencies Aren’t Legal

[Halloween Mike]

Slow down cowboy, friend is a strong word. A lot of us know Bianca by reputation. That doesn’t make everyone my friend, that circle is very small.

As far as whether the label is deserved. I think I posted fairly here. Bianca was charged with human trafficking after quite a long investigation. If you understand what that means, you’ll understand that this is not a trifling where she got hooped in over her head.

She’s a longtime, very successful, well compensated provider and built this agency deliberately over top of her independent sex work to grow an even bigger empire.

And yes, I 100% believe the charges because she was previously charged with being involved with a home invasion where another worker was bound with duct tape and threatened with a box cutter.

So no, my dear I am not being a hypocrite and Bianca is not just a scapegoat.

1) By friends i mean providers who been hanging with her, traveling with her, doing duos for years, among others but also spent personal time with her. I was not thinking about you at all.

2) For now she is charged and not been judged and condemned. Think about Carter Hall who was arrested for rape (pretty serious charge too) and was not found guilty. Peoples are innocent until proven guilty in Canada.

3) The "agency" in question i can't even recall it actually being more than just a "project". Like never saw ads or anything and i tought it died long ago. Thus why i would need to look more into it.

4) I remember the home invasion thing. That was like a decade ago. She could had changed. It could had been a "error of youth" (erreur de jeunesse)

5) Why you felt i was speaking about you? Where did i called you a hypocrite? Heck i didn't single anyone. (Just replied to the general news of Bianca's arrest). I said she could be a scapegoat as in she took the fall for the Don White guy. Maybe HE threw her under the bus. Maybe the police used her to get to him (having her testify against him).

Heck all all i said in this post was that i just saw the news and i wanted to get more infos before condemning her. And when i said "careful to not throw the first stone" it was valid for anyone on Terb. Not targeting any individuals clients or SPs.

 

[lunaseraphim]

Look, it's one thing to say you want to keep seeing girls who work for agencies, it's another to start insulting indies about our rates and our looks. Most indies, myself included, have worked for spas and agencies in the past and we decided that it was not for us. I had 3 different agencies try to recruit me in Montreal. I respect SP who work for agencies, it's their choice, there are advantages and disadvantages no matter how you decide to work as a companion.. As an indy, I have to do a lot of work that is unseen by clients, but I have no problem finding business and I would like it if clients respected those of us who choose to work independently.

 

[SIRLOKI]

Most Asian spas are operating as brothels, advertising openly in the escorts section. It's getting harder to get a massage, he at these place. So how do they get away with it?

 

[Assblaster]

I like everyone perspective and point of view. This thread is very informative am completely against any form of trafficking or exploiting of young ladies because I have sisters and daughters. Lots of dudes get exploited and taken advantage of too not like they can call and report and explain to the authorities what happens lol

 

[value_hunter]

I'm a little confused by the thread title - "Just a Reminder that Agencies Aren't Legal"

Is it legal for me to see an independent?

(I have nothing against independents, I respect the risk that they take on and I see them frequently).

 

[TheRiddlerMan]

I'm a little confused by the thread title - "Just a Reminder that Agencies Aren't Legal"

Is it legal for me to see an independent?

(I have nothing against independents, I respect the risk that they take on and I see them frequently).

That's not a client reference, it's to anyone running an agency or brothel. Those people can be charged with receiving a material benefit from sexual services. It's why some spas bill themselves as private clubs.

As a client, you're liable in either case.

 

[@madelineklaire]

So what exactly is legal in a body rub parlor and what can get an owner or client in legal trouble.

From what I understand, technically in Canada third parties aren’t supposed to profit from someone else’s sexual services (that’s the “material benefit” part of the Criminal Code). The reason body rub parlours can operate is because they’re licensed as adult massage/erotic massage and are only supposed to be offering manual release no oral or intercourse.

Once it moves into full service (oral, vaginal, etc.) it’s a lot more risky under the material benefit law. That’s why most places advertise just massage and keep anything beyond that completely off their menu.

 

[@madelineklaire]

I'm a little confused by the thread title - "Just a Reminder that Agencies Aren't Legal"

Is it legal for me to see an independent?

(I have nothing against independents, I respect the risk that they take on and I see them frequently).

Technically in Canada it’s illegal to pay for sexual services, whether the person is independent or works through an agency. But for most people it’s not about whether a client can or can’t book. it’s about what that choice ends up supporting. When you book through an agency, you’re often supporting a structure that takes control away from providers, dictates rates and services, and pushes the industry to be more consumer-driven and transactional. If clients want the scene to stay safe, high-quality, and sustainable, it helps to think about whether the places they’re spending money are empowering the people doing the work or boxing them in.

 

[@madelineklaire]

Agency’s are a good thing when indy’s simply goes bonkers with their rates. Generally good agencies kind of limits how much an indy can charge .

if there are 10/10 ladies witg different backgrounds, different looks for much MUCH cheaper, I wont see a indy.

I get this line of work hard, I get it. I cannot fathom some of the horror stories some of the indy’s go through.


However, I dont care how you look like or how you act like, nobody is worth 800-1000 per hour range. I mean in the sincerest way possible. If you can charge and get on with it, you go girl, more power to you, best of success in your life, but if ottawa had good agencies, not the pimps that they call themself “agencies” for asian ladies, the average price of the ladies will be much lower.

500 is what a girl charges in 250 in montreal. We need more agencies.

You’re absolutely entitled to decide what you personally want to spend, but it isn’t your place to decide what someone else “should” charge. A provider’s rate is hers to set based on the work she puts in, the boundaries she keeps, and the value she wants to place on her time. If clients pay it, then it’s clearly worth it to them, whether or not it fits your budget .

Saying “nobody is worth 800–1000” isn’t a fact about the market, it’s just your own price ceiling. Plenty of clients disagree and happily pay higher rates for safety, discretion, a consistent experience, and to support someone running her own business.

Agencies don’t exist to make pricing “reasonable.” They exist to take a cut, standardize services, and package things in a way that’s easier to sell. That might be convenient for some, but it doesn’t make independent rates invalid or wrong. If a provider wants to set her own value and keep control of her work, that’s her right whether it’s in your range or not.

 

[Thalrend]

You’re absolutely entitled to decide what you personally want to spend, but it isn’t your place to decide what someone else “should” charge. A provider’s rate is hers to set based on the work she puts in, the boundaries she keeps, and the value she wants to place on her time. If clients pay it, then it’s clearly worth it to them, whether or not it fits your budget .

Saying “nobody is worth 800–1000” isn’t a fact about the market, it’s just your own price ceiling. Plenty of clients disagree and happily pay higher rates for safety, discretion, a consistent experience, and to support someone running her own business.

Agencies don’t exist to make pricing “reasonable.” They exist to take a cut, standardize services, and package things in a way that’s easier to sell. That might be convenient for some, but it doesn’t make independent rates invalid or wrong. If a provider wants to set her own value and keep control of her work, that’s her right whether it’s in your range or not.

As every business, this business also about supply and demand, as far as i hate to say it. Generally, the high end indy provider’s are safer yes, but lets be honest , most providers charge what they can get away with. If a provider can charge double her rates they will. Its about who is willing to pay what.

Price ceiling of people gets higher or lower depeding on the local indy’s and agencies rates. I guarentee you, if they were montreal agencies in ottawa with same prices and same quality of ladies, most of the indy’s in ottawa will get a hit in their business.

Most people increase their price ceiling when there is no good options. Thats what agencies for, options. Ottawa has no options what so ever compared to toronto or montreal.

 

[@madelineklaire]

As every business, this business also about supply and demand, as far as i hate to say it. Generally, the high end indy provider’s are safer yes, but lets be honest , most providers charge what they can get away with. If a provider can charge double her rates they will. Its about who is willing to pay what.

Price ceiling of people gets higher or lower depeding on the local indy’s and agencies rates. I guarentee you, if they were montreal agencies in ottawa with same prices and same quality of ladies, most of the indy’s in ottawa will get a hit in their business.

Most people increase their price ceiling when there is no good options. Thats what agencies for, options. Ottawa has no options what so ever compared to toronto or montreal.

I’ve tried to keep this constructive, but we’re just circling. Rates will never be standardized because autonomy isn’t negotiable. Providers decide what keeps their work safe, sustainable, and worth it.

If someone’s price doesn’t work for you, that doesn’t make it wrong, it just means they’re not for you. Ottawa already offers plenty of options. The industry doesn’t owe you conformity or a discount.

Your budget is your boundary, not ours.

 

[Thalrend]

Nothing you said changes anything i said when it comes to agencies. Then again, indy providers not liking agencies is a story as long as the battle between the farmers and the rocks in their fields.

 

[roddermac]

From what I understand, technically in Canada third parties aren’t supposed to profit from someone else’s sexual services (that’s the “material benefit” part of the Criminal Code). The reason body rub parlours can operate is because they’re licensed as adult massage/erotic massage and are only supposed to be offering manual release no oral or intercourse.

Once it moves into full service (oral, vaginal, etc.) it’s a lot more risky under the material benefit law. That’s why most places advertise just massage and keep anything beyond that completely off their menu.

So the HE and some titty play is okay then by law.

 

[marshman]

Nothing you said changes anything i said when it comes to agencies. Then again, indy providers not liking agencies is a story as long as the battle between the farmers and the rocks in their fields.

I think you & Maddy have reached the “Agree to Disagree” point in this discussion. You view these services as a simplistic commodity whose prices fluctuate based solely on supply & demand. Maddy (who is invested in and understands this area from inside) knows that it’s not that simple.

As a friend once said to me after an energetic debate, “I’d agree with you but then we’d both be wrong”

 

[lunaseraphim]

I'm a little confused by the thread title - "Just a Reminder that Agencies Aren't Legal"

Is it legal for me to see an independent?

(I have nothing against independents, I respect the risk that they take on and I see them frequently).

No, it's not, but I think that's not super relevant.. I think the point of the thread was more to make clients think about the working conditions of the SP they see, more than remind clients what is legal or not, although I'm not OP. I know agencies and spas exist for reasons, a lot of girls don't have the energy or skills to work independently and when someone begins in the industry it may be easier to work for an employer.. However not all of these establishments are the same, there are a lot of things that happen behind closed doors that I hear about from colleagues.. It's not easy to see several clients in a row, for a low rate. I do not judge clients who choose to go to see SP from agencies, but it's all in the way you treat them and understand their working environment and how certain things may be difficult.

 

[Theredmilf]

You’re absolutely entitled to decide what you personally want to spend, but it isn’t your place to decide what someone else “should” charge. A provider’s rate is hers to set based on the work she puts in, the boundaries she keeps, and the value she wants to place on her time. If clients pay it, then it’s clearly worth it to them, whether or not it fits your budget .

Saying “nobody is worth 800–1000” isn’t a fact about the market, it’s just your own price ceiling. Plenty of clients disagree and happily pay higher rates for safety, discretion, a consistent experience, and to support someone running her own business.

Agencies don’t exist to make pricing “reasonable.” They exist to take a cut, standardize services, and package things in a way that’s easier to sell. That might be convenient for some, but it doesn’t make independent rates invalid or wrong. If a provider wants to set her own value and keep control of her work, that’s her right whether it’s in your range or not.

Yes, exactly. And I wanted to add that setting a provider’s rates or even encouraging a certain rate is coercive control. Further, if I as an agency owner encourage someone to put their rate at say 300 so that they can see many more clients at my location and I am receiving fees for all the clients, I am now receiving a material benefit from their sex work.

 

[Haggy64]

Well, do you observe any application of the labour code? I think we’re all familiar with what this is from civilian work. Do you see it being applied anywhere within sex workers’ workplaces? Do you see any harassment policies? Do you see any workers rights whatsoever?

Clearly this is very personal for you and this is very palpable in your posts. I was just clarifying your position. I do not profess to know anything about the Bianca et al situation so I cannot comment on that. I was just surprised,in general, about your demonization of agencies. I am very familiar with the labour code but I have no first hand knowledge of working with or for these organizations, only what has been conveyed to me by SPs. Several have communicated that they find the agency they work for fair, and they don’t feel mistreated, exploited or unsafe, so your opinions and experiences are not unanimous across the industry.. I divulged the reasons why I now prefer agencies over independents. This is your opportunity to educate us as to how agencies conduct themselves. How and what do they do or not do that exploits you, puts you in danger, treats you unfairly etc. And do all agencies operate this way?. No exceptions? How do you know this? As a client, I would genuinely like to know more about your experiences with agencies. Perhaps if we were provided with credible specifics we could make a decision whether or not to use agencies based on that. I’m not attacking you or disputing what you’re saying. You just haven’t provided much in the way of specifics and have made some generalizations that don’t seem to be aligned with all SPs. I am sympathetic to whatever experiences may have transpired in the past which have caused you to be so abrupt and accusatory. Enlighten us so that we may make educated decisions.

 

[Theredmilf]

Clearly this is very personal for you and this is very palpable in your posts. I was just clarifying your position. I do not profess to know anything about the Bianca et al situation so I cannot comment on that. I was just surprised,in general, about your demonization of agencies. I am very familiar with the labour code but I have no first hand knowledge of working with or for these organizations, only what has been conveyed to me by SPs. Several have communicated that they find the agency they work for fair, and they don’t feel mistreated, exploited or unsafe, so your opinions and experiences are not unanimous across the industry.. I divulged the reasons why I now prefer agencies over independents. This is your opportunity to educate us as to how agencies conduct themselves. How and what do they do or not do that exploits you, puts you in danger, treats you unfairly etc. And do all agencies operate this way?. No exceptions? How do you know this? As a client, I would genuinely like to know more about your experiences with agencies. Perhaps if we were provided with credible specifics we could make a decision whether or not to use agencies based on that. I’m not attacking you or disputing what you’re saying. You just haven’t provided much in the way of specifics and have made some generalizations that don’t seem to be aligned with all SPs. I am sympathetic to whatever experiences may have transpired in the past which have caused you to be so abrupt and accusatory. Enlighten us so that we may make educated decisions.

I don’t have a problem with your personal choices and absolutely understand that agencies are filling void and that providers are making the decision that’s best for them.

But my point is very simple. If you are familiar with the labour code, I’m sure you can tell me whether it’s being applied. Would you agree that the labour code is precisely what spells out what are fair working conditions? I mean, fairness in the workplace is not a vibe. It is a specific set of rights and conditions conferred to all workers.

 

[Haggy64]

I don’t have a problem with your personal choices and absolutely understand that agencies are filling void and that providers are making the decision that’s best for them.

But my point is very simple. If you are familiar with the labour code, I’m sure you can tell me whether it’s being applied. Would you agree that the labour code is precisely what spells out what are fair working conditions? I mean, fairness in the workplace is not a vibe. It is a specific set of rights and conditions conferred to all workers.

Fair.. I guess the question is whether the SPs are actually considered employees and the agencies employers. Or is the relationship between SPs and Agencies more along the lines of a contract or agreement. I honestly don’t know but I always thought it was more the latter, in which case the labour code would not apply.(?)Also there is a Federal and provincial labour code. Which applies to the SP/Agency relationship or do either?


FYI, here is the link to the labour code for those who would like to read further

Canada Labour Code

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

 

[Theredmilf]

Fair.. I guess the question is whether the SPs are actually considered employees and the agencies employers. Or is the relationship between SPs and Avencies more along the lines of a contract or agreement. I honestly don’t know but I always thought it was more the latter, in which case the labour code would not apply.(?)Also there is a Federal and provincial labour code. Which applies to the SP/Agency relationship or do either?


FYI, here is the link to the labour code for those who would like to read further

Canada Labour Code

Federal laws of Canada

laws-lois.justice.gc.ca

Bingo, now we’re getting somewhere. Next question, who deems whether someone is an employee or an independent contractor? I mean, can I just open a Tim Hortons and sign all the workers as independent contractors?