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Carney platform promises $130B in new spending, deficits until 2029 :Heart Attack:

Skoob

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Jun 1, 2022
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The economy was very good for most of Trudeaus govt. Unemployment was very low etc. Post pandemic things are much harder and now we are under attack by Trump. If you don't understand the difference then you are delusional
Over the past 10 years more people have found life to be unaffordable and the national debt has ballooned.
Compounding that has been a carbon tax that has been increasing since 2019 and even through the pandemic.

You are delusional if you believe everything was good. Ever wonder why Trudeau resigned?
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Maybe everyone should be going after the biggest polluters in the world first and putting pressure on them. That would probably make the biggest difference.
But pulling out of The Paris Accord reversed the progress agreed by the big polluters. That is once again going in that direction!!
 
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Butler1000

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Already explained it. in line with Post # 260.

But I see you have once again avoided the question that has been posed to the Climate Change Deniers. So once again:

Why did the Big Oil Corporations hide the Research linking Carbon Emissions to Climate Change?
That's hilarious! They cancelled it because people don't like it? Yes, that's true! So is it good policy? Or bad policy in your opinion?
 

Skoob

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Jun 1, 2022
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More Canadians at the middle and lower incomes received the rebates that countered the tariffs. Emissions were down.

But of course when Pee Pee uses his scaremongering tactics like how it was one of the major causes for inflation and aided by the right wing media then Carney stepped up to the plate to repel it!!

Now tell us why Carney has closed that 20+ point gap in the opinion polls since he took over from Pee Pee, if the Canadians did not trust him to handle the economy and also address The Climate Change?
Are you seriously arguing that the carbon tax was so good for people and the environment that the Libs decided to cancel it just before the election? Like a miracle?

Are you trying to peddle the narrative that Poilievre has so much influence over Liberal supporters that he managed to convince them the carbon tax was a scam?

You do remember the Liberal MPs on the east coast who begged Trudeau to cancel it in their riding right?

If Carney believed in it, why would he cancel it?

So tell us...if you believe the carbon tax is good for the climate, then why do you support someone who cancelled it?
 

40micmic

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Nov 12, 2014
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But pulling out of The Paris Accord reversed the progress agreed by the big polluters. That is once again going in that direction!!
I dont know enough about climate change but the biggest polluter in the world (China) was definitely not going in the right direction. Basically everyone else seemed to play by the rules, but China was going the other way
 

Skoob

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Jun 1, 2022
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But pulling out of The Paris Accord reversed the progress agreed by the big polluters. That is once again going in that direction!!
The point was that if the biggest polluters don't significantly reduce their emissions, then it won't matter what countries like Canada do.

China, Russia, EU, Brazil and India are are still part of the Paris accord...yet they continue to own the lion's share of global pollution. So?
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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That's hilarious! They cancelled it because people don't like it? Yes, that's true! So is it good policy? Or bad policy in your opinion?
If it reduce the Carbon Emissions then at least it was addressing Canada's response to the Climate Change. Remember that Ontario had the Cap and Trade that was repelled by The Ford Govt. Quebec are still honouring. Should they also pull out of it? Why does numerous European nations also have this Carbon Tax and moving to EVs far more quickly than Canada?

Once again if Human Generated Carbon Emissions are one of the root causes of Climate Change, then why did The Oil Corporations deliberately hide the research under wraps? Answer this for once butler rather than sidestepping this question!!
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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Are you seriously arguing that the carbon tax was so good for people and the environment that the Libs decided to cancel it just before the election? Like a miracle?

Are you trying to peddle the narrative that Poilievre has so much influence over Liberal supporters that he managed to convince them the carbon tax was a scam?

You do remember the Liberal MPs on the east coast who begged Trudeau to cancel it in their riding right?

If Carney believed in it, why would he cancel it?

So tell us...if you believe the carbon tax is good for the climate, then why do you support someone who cancelled it?
Tell us if the Carbon Tax was so unpopular to start with, then why did Trudeau win the 2015 Elections with a huge majority, especially when the Liberals were even trailing The NDP prior to Trudeau campaigning on this tax? Once again with inflation from numerous other factors such as The Supply Chain disruptions after the Covid Pandemic, as well as severe Climate impacts on the crops, plus Russia - Ukraine war, that triggered the Global inflation, that Canada was not insulated from it!! Only when Pee Pee and the right wing media pushed the carbon tax as exacerbating it though it was proven to have a minimal impact as compared to all the factors described above. The majority of Canadians are not Liberal or Conservative supporters. They will switch parties depending on the circumstances and leaderships of the various parties. Otherwise, explain why did Harper who had a resounding majority prior to the 2015 Elections, was then resoundingly beaten with a Liberal majority in that elections? Now at least Carney has an alternative to the Carbon Tax. Pee Pee on the other hand pretends that he believes in Climate Change but does not have an alternative solution to this issue. That is why Carney has my vote!!
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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I dont know enough about climate change but the biggest polluter in the world (China) was definitely not going in the right direction. Basically everyone else seemed to play by the rules, but China was going the other way
Yes China needs to address it and they are a signatory to the Paris Accord. But with Trump pulling out of that Accord in 2016 meant China either reversing its policy or putting it on hold.
But they subsequently agreed to honour their commitment once Biden rejoined the Paris Accord:

Currently, China – which alone accounts for a third of global emissions – has a goal of peaking CO2 emissions “before 2030” and reaching carbon neutrality by 2060.

Since 2020, the country has also pledged to reduce CO2 emissions per unit of GDP – a measure known as carbon intensity – by more than 65% below 2005 levels by 2030.
China are moving towards EVs at far more rapidly than numerous Nations around The Globe. Who knows now whether they will reduce their usage of coal, especially with Trump's stubbornness to honour The Paris Accord!!
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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If it reduce the Carbon Emissions then at least it was addressing Canada's response to the Climate Change. Remember that Ontario had the Cap and Trade that was repelled by The Ford Govt. Quebec are still honouring. Should they also pull out of it? Why does numerous European nations also have this Carbon Tax and moving to EVs far more quickly than Canada?

Once again if Human Generated Carbon Emissions are one of the root causes of Climate Change, then why did The Oil Corporations deliberately hide the research under wraps? Answer this for once butler rather than sidestepping this question!!
If the tax is good, why is Carney canceling it? Why not stand by it, and convince the Canadian people?

See here is your problem bver, you are continuing to tell us that it's good policy, and at the same time tell us Carney is right to cancel it.

So which is it?
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Tell us if the Carbon Tax was so unpopular to start with, then why did Trudeau win the 2015 Elections with a huge majority, especially when the Liberals were even trailing The NDP prior to Trudeau campaigning on this tax? Once again with inflation from numerous other factors such as The Supply Chain disruptions after the Covid Pandemic, as well as severe Climate impacts on the crops, plus Russia - Ukraine war, that triggered the Global inflation, that Canada was not insulated from it!! Only when Pee Pee and the right wing media pushed the carbon tax as exacerbating it though it was proven to have a minimal impact as compared to all the factors described above. The majority of Canadians are not Liberal or Conservative supporters. They will switch parties depending on the circumstances and leaderships of the various parties. Otherwise, explain why did Harper who had a resounding majority prior to the 2015 Elections, was then resoundingly beaten with a Liberal majority in that elections? Now at least Carney has an alternative to the Carbon Tax. Pee Pee on the other hand pretends that he believes in Climate Change but does not have an alternative solution to this issue. That is why Carney has my vote!!
He won because he promised to legalized pot. Electoral reform, Sunny Ways, and 10 years of conservative govt. Oh and a failed attempt to duplicate Obama.

He never got past a minority after, and didn't get the popular vote. Mostly because he lost the pot vote, and the Electoral reform vote.
 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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The point was that if the biggest polluters don't significantly reduce their emissions, then it won't matter what countries like Canada do.

China, Russia, EU, Brazil and India are are still part of the Paris accord...yet they continue to own the lion's share of global pollution. So?
The USA has higher CO2 Emissions than all those countries listed except China. But when you take the Per Capita, then The USA is worse than all those Nations.
When all those nations were having their goals to address their Emissions and then Trump pulls out of The Paris Accord, then what message is he sensing to those Nations?
Especially over all the decades when The USA was one of the worst polluters!!
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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If the Libs prorogued parliament, then why have been they making decisions outside of parliament for things like tariffs, aid for Ukraine, etc ? Very undemocratic.

If the Conservatives did that you would be calling for a revolution.
Those are decisions always made outside of parliament anyway.
Again a non issue.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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If the tax is good, why is Carney canceling it? Why not stand by it, and convince the Canadian people?

See here is your problem bver, you are continuing to tell us that it's good policy, and at the same time tell us Carney is right to cancel it.

So which is it?
Just read the posts to skoob that addresses all the questions. But did Trudeau not campaign on the Carbon Tax in the 2015 Elections and then win a huge majority?
So what was wrong with him then keeping his promise in this respect? Did those on lower incomes not receive their rebates to help with them?
Once again butler:

If Human Generated Carbon Emissions are one of the root causes of Climate Change, then why did The Oil Corporations deliberately hide the research under wraps? Answer this for once butler rather than sidestepping this question!!
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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He won because he promised to legalized pot. Electoral reform, Sunny Ways, and 10 years of conservative govt. Oh and a failed attempt to duplicate Obama.

He never got past a minority after, and didn't get the popular vote. Mostly because he lost the pot vote, and the Electoral reform vote.
Legalizing Pot was one of the minor promises. When the GDP growth of just 0.6% ....... the worst in the G7 nations during a failed decade under Harper, it was Sunny ways since then until the Pandemic when the Provinces shut their economies. But all the same Trudeau won all those Elections since then though not the popular vote as the concentration of the Conservative votes are in the Prairie Provinces. We know that a certain Trump won his first term with a minority votes and all the righties defended it then. What is the difference here?
Anyway you are then confirming that Trudeau still won due to the Carbon Tax vote if he lost the "Pot Votes" and "Electoral Reform" votes!!
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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Over the past 10 years more people have found life to be unaffordable and the national debt has ballooned.
Compounding that has been a carbon tax that has been increasing since 2019 and even through the pandemic.

You are delusional if you believe everything was good. Ever wonder why Trudeau resigned?
It did not happen evenly over the 10 years. The pandemic really caused a lot of issues.
 

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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He should have called an election well before Trump took office when the opposition called for it. They wanted a carbon tax election but the Libs held firm on it.
Until of course it was too late and his own ministers turned on him and begged him to remove the carbon tax.

So he resigns and then Carney copies the Conservative platform and suddenly the environment is not a concern. And all the while, when Canada needed their government most, they prorogued parliament. But the Libs started making policy decisions outside of parliament anyway.

Very undemocratic isn't it? If Conservatives were doing that you would storm the capital.

You're being played.
Maybe, but the opposition is always asking for an election. No one in the Lib govt really wanted to remove the carbon tax, PP made his platform 1 issue and when that issue was removed it struggled. The industrial carbon tax will still be there, PP said he would cut that as well but no one cared. Carney is not gonna kill C69 and he is gonna continue with the dental roll out. The programs are NOT the same. No mandatory sentences from Carney either. Because he is not a moron. The economy is always a priority. But climate measures are long term economic measures as climate change has some very real economic consequences.
 

40micmic

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Nov 12, 2014
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Yes China needs to address it and they are a signatory to the Paris Accord. But with Trump pulling out of that Accord in 2016 meant China either reversing its policy or putting it on hold.
But they subsequently agreed to honour their commitment once Biden rejoined the Paris Accord:
I don't think China ever planned to honour their commitments whether trump, biden or obama was in office. They literally give 2 shits about the environment. They overfish the seas often illegally going into other countries' EEZ, their AQI is among the worst in the world, they engage in unprecedented levels of nuclear waste water dumping, 80-90% of their ground water is unusable. Like literally 0 fucks given about the environment.

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China are moving towards EVs at far more rapidly than numerous Nations around The Globe. Who knows now whether they will reduce their usage of coal, especially with Trump's stubbornness to honour The Paris Accord!!
So the Chinese EV revolution is very debatable. They come out with a government initiative, i.e. becoming the world leader in EVs. The CCP dumps trillions of dollars into developing this industry providing massive subsidies into provincial and local governments with the simple mandate of producing quantity, definitely not quality. The subsidies filter down with each branch of government taking their cut along the way (starting at the top officials.) Companies are usually rewarded with bigger subsidies if production quotas are met with no regard to safety standards or quality control. What you end up having is substandard EVs being produced and not even Chinese consumers want them. As a result they try to dump these products on Europe, SA, Africa. The QC issues are well reported in places like Australia with one of the "higher" end brands like Xiaomi have significant rust issues after 1 year, brakes and electronic systems malfunctioning, air bags not deploying, etc.

What has ended up happening are these massive EV graveyards in China where these useless EVs are left to rot. There is plenty of evidence and drone footage of this. Same thing happened with their E-bike revolution. Just mass e-bike graveyards everywhere in China. Also not to mention, their lithium extraction process have been heavily criticized both from an environmental standpoint and a human rights POV.

Again China gives 2 shits about the environment. It is all a facade for the exterior world. They say one thing and behind closed doors they do the exact opposite.
 

40micmic

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2014
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The USA has higher CO2 Emissions than all those countries listed except China. But when you take the Per Capita, then The USA is worse than all those Nations.
When all those nations were having their goals to address their Emissions and then Trump pulls out of The Paris Accord, then what message is he sensing to those Nations?
Especially over all the decades when The USA was one of the worst polluters!!
If you took out half the population of China (literally half), I guarantee you it would barely make a dent in their carbon emissions.
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Legalizing Pot was one of the minor promises. When the GDP growth of just 0.6% ....... the worst in the G7 nations during a failed decade under Harper, it was Sunny ways since then until the Pandemic when the Provinces shut their economies. But all the same Trudeau won all those Elections since then though not the popular vote as the concentration of the Conservative votes are in the Prairie Provinces. We know that a certain Trump won his first term with a minority votes and all the righties defended it then. What is the difference here?
Anyway you are then confirming that Trudeau still won due to the Carbon Tax vote if he lost the "Pot Votes" and "Electoral Reform" votes!!
It amazes me how you firmly believe Trudeau did nothing wrong in ten years. You are like a few exes I had who refused yo take accountability for words and actions.

Trudeau had a 19% approval rating. Why do you think that happened?
 
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