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12 Year Old Shot By Police

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TESLAMotors

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Aardvark154

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SkyRider said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ers-shooting-dead-12-year-old-Tamir-Rice.html

I think the police were way too quick on the trigger in this case.
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When someone points a pistol at you, do you believe the average person is willing to take the chance it isn't real?

Someone (the boy?) deliberately removed the bright red plug indicating that it was an airsoft rather than a actual firearm.

Simple way not to be shot, which everyone with either an actual or "toy" firearm should have drummed into them, never point it at someone you are not intending to shoot and kill and that you have the legal basis to use deadly force against.

For children that boils down to don't point it at people - period!
 
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K Douglas

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Definitely not as clear cut as the Brown case. This officer may be in trouble. But honestly I don't think you can level a charge of racism when things like this happen in the spur of the moment it's a tough call.
 
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jazzpig

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Aardvark154 said:
When someone points a pistol at you, do you believe the average person is willing to take the chance it isn't real?

Someone (the boy?) deliberately removed the bright red plug indicating that it was an airsoft rather than a actual firearm.

Simple way not to be shot, which everyone with either an actual or "toy" firearm should have drummed into them, never point it at someone you are not intending to shoot and kill and that you have the legal basis to use deadly force against.

For children that boils down to don't point it at people - period!
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I think we all know what the kid shouldn't have done.
The question is whether killing the boy could have been avoided, without compromising any safety procedures.
I just found it odd that the police would drive their car off the road, right up to him, having the foreknowledge that he was brandishing a gun.
I would assume that they would have parked the car a relatively safe distance from the guy, and at least assessed it and
tried to deescalate the situation.
If it was full grown male brandishing a gun, would they have driven right up to him? Just asking.
I don't think any body wanted to kill anybody, but at first glance it seems wreckless and unnecessary.
 
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Aardvark154

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Jazzpig, I don't know if it was the older more experienced officer driving or the new officer in either event it was the responsibility of the more experienced officer to provide guidance.

I'll agree with you that I also believe driving up so close to the suspect seems unwise - particularly as it put the other officer closer to the suspect and unable to initially shelter behind the cruiser.

That doesn't mean that the shooting wasn't legally justified, rather that with 20/20 hindsight. . . . In fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if this video ends up being used in police training exercises.
 
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rhuarc29

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K Douglas said:
Definitely not as clear cut as the Brown case. This officer may be in trouble.
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I was thinking the opposite. This officer had what could reasonably be assumed as a firearm being waved around in a public place. Wilson had the threat of fists, and that threat was only to himself.

I saw this story on the news days ago. I'm actually surprised it hasn't blown up. I'm thinking the Ferguson thing is stealing its thunder.
 
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fuji

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The problem here is with 911 dispatch.

The original 911 caller repeatedly told dispatch that it was probably a toy gun but that a kid was scaring people with it.

Dispatch told the patrol officers that it was a black male threatening people with a handgun and made no mention of it probably being a toy.

The officers went in having been told it was a gun and probably would have taken a very different approach if they had been told it was probably a toy.

I don't know that the officers are at fault here but I think the family is going to get rich suing the dispatch service and the department for negligence.
 
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Kenny-sauga

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Read somewhere that this will also go to grand jury. Will be interesting to watch the outcome. Will somebody mention that pig put himself in jeopardy by staying too close...or was it because he had already made up his mind on the way to shoot and you can get the best shot when close to the subject! I would question pig's thought process of parking too close for comfort, endangering himself already, and thus arriving at the outcome that is now 6 feet under.
 
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Aardvark154

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fuji said:
The problem here is with 911 dispatch.

The original 911 caller repeatedly told dispatch that it was probably a toy gun but that a kid was scaring people with it.

Dispatch told the patrol officers that it was a black male threatening people with a handgun and made no mention of it probably being a toy.

The officers went in having been told it was a gun and probably would have taken a very different approach if they had been told it was probably a toy.

I don't know that the officers are at fault here but I think the family is going to get rich suing the dispatch service and the department for negligence.
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However coming into play as mitigating factors:

a) Someone (the boy?) deliberately removed the bright red plug indicating that it was an airsoft rather than a actual firearm.

b) was the witness clairvoyant? Indeed he said that he thought it might not be a real weapon, but when it is pointed at you are you going to be willing to take that chance, would your wife/children want you to?

c) the officer (admittedly rapidly) yelled/said drop the gun three times.

d) the kid pointed the gun at the officer.
 
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Aardvark154

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Kenny-sauga, do you support open carry laws?

If you don't there is a certain amount of a double standard to your position is there not?
 
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Aardvark154

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nobody123 said:
Care to point us to the recent news articles regarding white people shot to death for holding a toy gun then?
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At hand two unarmed Whites:

http://wreg.com/2014/11/25/salt-lake-cop-cleared-in-shooting-of-unarmed-white-man/

http://downtrend.com/71superb/unarm...riots-al-sharpton-silent-obama-keeps-golfing/

If you want links for Whites with realistic but fake firearms, they are out there but I'm certainly not wasting my time tonight coming up with them for you so you can post "so what".
 
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K Douglas

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Jessica S said:
We need better police training. From what I saw in the video seems the officer just shot right away. There has to be a safer way to deal with possible suspects. It's very sad that a child lost his life and I feel for the family.
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You'd be surprised at how well cops are trained Jessica. I don't think any amount of training would have changed this - rather it would take years of experience and gut instinct. I believe the cop who shot was only 26 with less than a year on the force.
 
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jazzpig

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K Douglas said:
You'd be surprised at how well cops are trained Jessica. I don't think any amount of training would have changed this - rather it would take years of experience and gut instinct. I believe the cop who shot was only 26 with less than a year on the force.
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Are you saying that kid's death was the result of a cop's inexperience?
 
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poorboy

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Jessica S said:
We need better police training. From what I saw in the video seems the officer just shot right away. There has to be a safer way to deal with possible suspects. It's very sad that a child lost his life and I feel for the family.
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Jessica,

The civilian dispatchers should have passed on it was possibly a fake, but the police have to assume it's real. No where is it written in the Criminal Code that the police have to be shot first.

The police need better training as they shouldn't be driving right up to the suspect, but the outcome would not have been different. Take a look at the fake gun recovered. If that gun was pulled on officers from point blank, they would not be able to tell whether it was real or not. The boy was told three times to show his hands. Instead he reached for his waistband. His death was his own undoing.

http://wtvr.com/2014/11/26/police-werent-told-12-year-old-they-shot-might-be-carrying-fake-gun/
 
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