A question on the right to self defense

[fuji]

I agree buttercup, you've captured the essence of what I think the law says as well. I do think that in this case the law more or less has it morally and ethically right.

 

[seth gecko]

From June 9th Toronto Sun:

"The door to the modest but well-kept home in north Etobicoke opened and the residents greeted their guest warmly but cautiously yesterday, and they held off from saying anything for the moment.

On Friday morning, two men -- one armed with a mini .40-calibre Smith and Wesson semi-automatic handgun -- knocked on the door of the Steeles Ave.-Martin Grove Rd. area home.

The pair tried to enter the home, but they were stopped by the 24-year-old man who answered the door, Toronto Police Det. Richard Petrie said.

"They wrestled around a bit, and he (the victim) was struck in the head with the gun magazine," he said.

The victim grabbed the handgun and during the life-and-death struggle, the firearm discharged twice, hitting no one, Petrie said.

During the struggle, the magazine release must have been hit because the victim ended up with the pistol while the gunman fled holding the magazine.

"When the suspect reaches down to pick up the magazine, the victim pulls the gun away from the suspect, hits him in the face with the gun, the suspect hits the victim in the head with the magazine and runs away," Petrie said.

The victim suffered a bump to the head, he said.

During the struggle, the victim's sister called 911.

The second suspect had abandoned his pal when things got a little rough, Petrie said.

The pistol is now undergoing forensic and ballistic tests.

"These guys aren't the best and the brightest," he said.

And because the motive remains a mystery, police don't know if the incident was a home invasion, a robbery or something else.

"It'd be pretty scary if somebody shows up at your house and pulls out a gun and, boom, the fight's on and it goes off twice," Petrie said. "You've never been in trouble with the police; it's not like you're a bandit and they're expecting it."

One suspect is described as black, between 17 and 22 and 5-foot-5. He had on a yellow hooded sweatshirt.

The other suspect is described as black, between 20 and 25 and 5-foot-8. He was wearing a white baseball hat and white hooded sweatshirt.

Anyone with information is asked to call police at 416-808-2300, Crime Stoppers anonymously at 416-222-8477, online at www.222tips.com, or text TOR and your message to CRIMES (274637)."

ROB.LAMBERTI@SUNMEDIA.CA



So, following some of the arguments throughout this thread, will the homeowner be charged with assault? Would the Crown pursue the case? Would a jury convict?

Argue amongst yourselves......

 

[smylee52]

A friend told us a related story over beers a little while ago . A relative of his works with Metro police and responded to a shooting , some time ago , in the city of Toronto .

He and his partner were first on the scene to find Guiseppe standing on his front lawn holding the 12 guage and there was a body lying on the ground at the end of the drive way . Within seconds a fire truck and ambulance arrived so the officers secured the weapon and asked Guiseppe what happened . His response was " dat sunnuma beech break in my house . I grab my gun in my closet and I catch him and he run . I chase to the driveway and shoot him before he get away that sunnuma beech . " The officers realized that Guiseppe was not in imminent danger but certainly had no sympathy for a thief so they wanted to help the guy out . Trying to advise him without being too obvious the Officer said " So you shot him because he was moving towards you but he turned around just as you pulled the trigger and that's why he took it in the back " . "No , No, No " reponded Guiseppe , " I catch him and shoot him so he no get away " . Soon they were surrounded by others and had to record Guiseppe's account of the events . Guiseppe was charged but unfortunately my friend didn't get what the final outcome was .

The point is you don't necessarily need to be in imminent danger but just need to realistically believe you are in imminent danger . If an intruder is moving away from you let him go because it will end badly for you . If he is moving towards you then defend yourself to the limits of your ability and make sure the police know you feared for your life when you beat the fucker senseless .

 

[Moraff]

So, following some of the arguments throughout this thread, will the homeowner be charged with assault? Would the Crown pursue the case? Would a jury convict?

Argue amongst yourselves......

Based solely on how I read the article. No, the homeowner (assuming you mean the guy who answered the door) wouldn't be charged as it appears the suspects attempted to force their way in.

Based on that answer your other two questions are irrelevant.

 

[smylee52]

As for Giuseppe that shot the burglar that ran away.... any cop can see if someone was shot in the back or the front and if he was shot in the back there is no frigging way that defense would work.

I think you missed the point of the parable Sheik but you are so pissed with Fuji I can see why (LOL) .

 

[sibannac]

What are you really that much of a frigging moron fuji?

Most breakins happen when no one is home or occupants are asleep. The majority of those that break in use a tool to jimmy the door/break a window, etc.... that tool is a weapon in the hands of a burglar.

The part that keeps going over your head is..... IF I AM HOME and someone breaks in, I WILL use whatever means are at my disposal to get that burglar out of my house. So will most people unlike you Fuji and seeing how you are here, you would probably pour a cup of coffee and sit down and discuss with the burglar whether you should just let him go or use deadly force like a rolled up newspaper. Cops have drilled it into peoples head to become sheep and just let the criminals do whatever they want. I aint one of those people and if someone breaks in to my house you can bet on your life that it will be violent.


As for Giuseppe that shot the burglar that ran away.... any cop can see if someone was shot in the back or the front and if he was shot in the back there is no frigging way that defense would work.

On the point about COPS drilling into peoples head to be less comfortable, that has more to do with the fact that in most cases it ends badly for the victim. You might be capable of providing a significant defense to an intruder, most don't have that ability.

On the second point you are a 100% right that LEOs can easily figure out if the person was shot while retreating which in fact would be illegal.