another shooting

Athena06

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Jan 23, 2006
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QUARRYVILLE, Pa. (AP) - When the deputy coroner reached the Amish schoolhouse, she found blood on every desk, every window broken and the body of a young girl slumped beneath the chalkboard. Ten children had been shot, five fatally, and the gunman was dead.


"It was horrible. I don't know how else to explain it," Amanda Shelley, deputy Lancaster County coroner, said Wednesday. "I hope to never see anything like that again in my life."


The gunman, a 32-year-old milk truck driver and father of three, was wearing jeans, a T-shirt and a button-down shirt, Shelley said. He had stationed weapons around the schoolhouse and "really appeared he had planned on staying there a few hours."


Authorities say Charles Carl Roberts IV had started buying supplies for a long siege six days before he stormed the tiny schoolhouse. He made a checklist of what to bring and wrote out four suicide notes, one talking about how he was "filled with so much hate" and "unimaginable emptiness."


On Monday morning, Roberts ran his milk route as usual and walked his children to school, police said. Then he drove to the Amish school and walked inside.


Teacher Emma Mae Zook, 20, said she immediately sensed something was off.


"He stood very close to me to talk and didn't look in my face to talk," she told the Intelligencer Journal of Lancaster in Wednesday's edition. She thought he was saying something about a metal object in the road.


Roberts walked back to his truck, then reappeared at the door with a gun, she said.


He sent the adults and boys out and bound the 10 girls in a row at the chalkboard, police said. He had been inside for about an hour, at one point speaking briefly by cellphone with his wife, when authorities closed in and Roberts opened fire on the girls at close range, fatally wounding five and then killing himself.


"We're quite certain, based on what we know, that he had no intention of coming out of there alive," State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller said.


The letters Roberts left behind and that short conversation with his wife indicated Roberts had remembered molesting two relatives 20 years ago and had been tormented by dreams about molesting again.


Roberts had brought lubricating jelly to the schoolhouse and may have planned to sexually assault the Amish girls, Miller said.


In the suicide notes, Roberts also said he was haunted by the death of his prematurely born daughter in 1997. The baby, Elise, died 20 minutes after being delivered, Miller said.


Elise's death "changed my life forever," Roberts wrote to his wife. "I haven't been the same since it affected me in a way I never felt possible. I am filled with so much hate, hate toward myself hate towards God and unimaginable emptyness it seems like everytime we do something fun I think about how Elise wasn't here to share it with us and I go right back to anger."




The state police commissioner on Tuesday laid out the steps Roberts took in the days and hours leading up to his attack on the West Nickel Mines Amish School in Lancaster County, where the Amish live an 18th-century lifestyle with no automobiles or electricity.


"He certainly was very troubled, psychologically deep down, and was dealing with things that nobody else knew he was dealing with," Miller said. But he said Roberts, who was not Amish, did not appear to have anything against those people.

During the standoff, Roberts told his wife in a cellphone call that he molested two female relatives when they were three to five years old, Miller said. Also, in the note to his wife, Marie, he said he "had dreams about doing what he did 20 years ago again," Miller said.

Police could not immediately confirm Roberts' claim that he molested relatives, and family members knew nothing of molestation in his past.

At the time Roberts' wife received the phone call, she was attending a meeting of a prayer group she led that prayed for the community's schoolchildren.

The victims were identified as Naomi Rose Ebersole, 7; Anna Mae Stoltzfus, 12; Marian Fisher, 13; Mary Liz Miller, 8, and her sister Lena Miller, 7. Stoltzfus's sister was among the wounded.

Three other girls were in critical condition and two were in serious condition. They ranged in age from six to 13.

**Now,what kind of security do theses schools have to protect the kids ?
He was thinking of raping a few.then confessed that he indeed molested family members...I thought American schools had better security because the govt can afford it!Does everyone own a gun in the states or what?!!:confused:
 

papasmerf

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Security is an interesting question.
Would you support armed guards in the schools?
Chain and lock the doors after school begins?


YOu raise an interesting question. What would you do for security?
 

Athena06

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Jan 23, 2006
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First thing..get your gun control to a minimum!

Second;when you go into HMV,they have metal detectors?Well that could
one start.

Third;And yes,lockdown during school hours wouldnt be bad....
Buzz into the front reception when you wanna come in as visitor
or whatever....I think that the schools should take a picture of both parents when registering your children ..because lets say the school has a cam and voice audio on it at the entrance doors,you tell them my name is Joe Smith father of Anna smith...well lets see,secretary pulls up chart..see the pic on file..ok Joe,your good to go..And if your not on file..call the cops.
Who else would come for your kids but you or your SO?

papasmerf said:
Security is an interesting question.
Would you support armed guards in the schools?
Chain and lock the doors after school begins?


YOu raise an interesting question. What would you do for security?
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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Carcharias said:
It's not a school security issue, it's a widespread social issue. All the video cameras and even guards won't stop some crazy that's bent on massacring children.

While it's impossibe to outlaw insanity, it is possible to outlaw some of the means that the insane use to carry out these sorts of acts. For instance:
  • Make handguns and assault weapons illegal;
  • Nationalize the manufacturers of such weapons;
  • License and strictly regulate all firearms;
  • More and better equipped police to deal with the thugs that have the weapons illegally, and harsh prison sentences;
  • Ban the importation of weapons;
  • Nationalize the selling and distribution of ammunition;
  • Lower the price of SPs. (OK, so that may not be relevant, but after all this is an SP board.)
None of this will ever happen, of course, because the NRA is just too powerful a lobby organization and is far too entrenched.
Screw the NRA

I will stand aginsts your socialist ideas
 

papasmerf

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Athena06 said:
First thing..get your gun control to a minimum!

Second;when you go into HMV,they have metal detectors?Well that could
one start.

Third;And yes,lockdown during school hours wouldnt be bad....
Buzz into the front reception when you wanna come in as visitor
or whatever....I think that the schools should take a picture of both parents when registering your children ..because lets say the school has a cam and voice audio on it at the entrance doors,you tell them my name is Joe Smith father of Anna smith...well lets see,secretary pulls up chart..see the pic on file..ok Joe,your good to go..And if your not on file..call the cops.
Who else would come for your kids but you or your SO?

Most schools have the door lock systems in place along with AV.


Metal detectors? Ok try to get the teachers thru them


Gun control? Have you ever noticed that criminals in every country on earth can get a gun?
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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Carcharias said:
I didn't suggest that the list would be a good idea. It's socialist, draconian and unworkable, no argument there. I'd be against it too (except the SP part).

Clearly, whatever is being done now isn't working. Something has to change. But frankly, I really don't know what.
Fire the liberal judges and DA's

Enforce laws on the books

Reform prisions to work like this one http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/miracopjail.htm
 

maxweber

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Oct 12, 2005
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modest proposal

Carcharias said:
I didn't suggest that the list would be a good idea. It's socialist, draconian and unworkable, no argument there. I'd be against it too (except the SP part).

Clearly, whatever is being done now isn't working. Something has to change. But frankly, I really don't know what.
It seems to me that rebuilding civil society is the key. The excesses of left anf (especially) right need to be reined in. A society in which present-day black people can ask for reparations for slavery with a straight face isn't a responsible society. Nor is one that allows executives to make salaries that amount to legalized theft, and investors to play tiddly-winks with the GDP. Although censorship and repression aren't the answer, some reclaimning of public reason from rabble rousing liars like Coulter and Limbaugh is vital for the public interest. We have to find a way to reward public-spirited enterprise instead of crazed greed and hooliganism.

All these proposed steps are indirect, not to mention vague. But I see the essence of this terrible incident in the same light as the Timothy McVeigh crime, and other symptoms that Americans feel a literally desperate loss of stake in their own society and nation. At the very least, we need to start voting for responsible public officials, and not smooth-talking liars like Reagan and Bush.

MW
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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Don

Untill you make prisons a punishment you will have no chance of steming crime.
 

papasmerf

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DonQuixote said:
We've been doing nothing but that.
And, what have we got out of that plan.
Stay the course, eh. And keep getting
the same results.

Maybe its time to get smart and
learn from the history of our penal
system.
You are staying the course set after the ATTICA RIOTS. And that is a cousre which allows way too much freedom for prisioners. Ya can't even have a prison farm in NYS anymore. When prisioners worked the prision farms it kept costs down and guess what. Fewer repeat prisioners.

Make jail what it is ment to be. A place you don't want to go. Not a place with CATV, Fully equipped health club, premimum insurance coverages. Not to mention a graduate university for crime. Don't set up housing for family visits. Put up the plexglass for visits and curb the influx of drugs. Mail prisons, prisions not fenced in Holiday Inns.
 

Esco!

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Nov 10, 2004
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papasmerf said:
Security is an interesting question.
Would you support armed guards in the schools?
Chain and lock the doors after school begins?


YOu raise an interesting question. What would you do for security?
Smerfie I know you mean well, but if I'm a killer I'll have 20 people shot before you can reach for your peashooter yourself.
It'll take me 60 seconds to fire 30 rounds (and I'm being conservative)., I'm guessing it'll take you a lot longer to get to your gun
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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DonQuixote said:
We've been doing nothing but that.
And, what have we got out of that plan.
Stay the course, eh. And keep getting
the same results.

Maybe its time to get smart and
learn from the history of our penal
system.
Don

since 1972 prison refom has been one hell of a drain

I am sorry but I do belive in 20 long years under the jail.

I really do not give a shit if a prisioner comes out healther.

Hell I support castration for childmolesters and repeat rapists
 

Esco!

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DonQuixote said:
Philadelphia has had a rash of murders in the last 12 months.
They knew they didn't have the resources to be at all places
all the time.

So, they did a study and found a pattern in the development
of a youth from a juvenile offender to a hardened criminal.
They identified those youths with the highest risk based
on definable patterns of behavior.

They then sought out those youths most at risk and
are intervening to give them a 'way out' of their
pattern of crime. And, its working. These kids
aren't evil or born to be criminals. They frequently
were the victims of crime at an early age and the
practiced what they were taught. From victim
to criminal.

This isn't rocket science. If all you're into is punitive
punishment then you'll only reap what you sow.
Very, very intelligent man!!
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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DonQuixote said:
Pops:

Not all crimes are violent. Not all criminals are of the same
cloth. All I know is that we have a troubled youth that's
walking on the wrong side of the street. We incarcerate
him for a minor felony. He pulls a year or so, learns nothing,
is released back into the community. He falls into the same
pattern of behavior only the level of the felony rises. He's
back in jail. Nothing learned to live a productive life. He
gets out and now he's a veteran criminal and the level
of crime goes to the next level.

We spend $25K/yr and all we do is create a hardened
criminal. I suggest we intervene early on in the life
of violence. It can't cost as much as our penal system
and our society pay in the long run.

Criminals aren't born, they're molded by the environment
they experience.

That's not a liberal view of life; that's what happens.

Further, it's estimated that 25-30% of those in jail
have mental illness. Why are they in jail? Why is
our penal system dealing with medical issues?
I've linked this before, I'll link it again for those who may have missed it and need to have their eyes opened as to the prison system in the US. The article is from that well known liberal rag, The Economist.

http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1270755
 

Esco!

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HHmm..............Asterix??????????
You're agreeing with him..................or you're sorta agreeing with him????
 

Asterix

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Esco! said:
HHmm..............Asterix??????????
You're agreeing with him..................or you're sorta agreeing with him????
I'm agreeing with him completely. Take a few minutes and read the article I've linked.
 

Esco!

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Nov 10, 2004
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Asterix said:
I'm ageeing with him completely. Take a few minutes and read the article I've linked.
I'm not that smart, dammit!!!!!!!!


Oh Jeezus...................I need a drink!!!! :eek:

Hey Asterix????!!!!!!
 

Asterix

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Aug 6, 2002
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Esco! said:
I'm not that smart, dammit!!!!!!!!
Sure you are. Now if I could only get women to yell my name with that much enthusiasm.
 
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