another shooting
- Thread starter Athena06
- Start date
Nobody is. Nighty nite.Esco! said:Anywho.............Asterix needs to get some sleep, cause he's not that smart!
Really...gun controll will not work. All it will do is stop those who want to use guns to defend themselves responsibly. Criminals will still have them.
Nationalizing bullets & guns is far, far too late to even consider. Airport security & school security & all of this restrictive crap does the same thing: inconveniences honest people & does very little to deter a determined criminal.
It seems like we have really limited our punishment repitiore in the "civilized" world. Prison, fines, execution are the 3 overwhelmingly chosen punishments. W....T.....F? Are we really that unimaginative? You kill, you go to prison. You steal, you go to prison. You get caught with pot, you go to prison. Sure, theyre for different time periods, but really, after a year or 2 you're so used to the prison life that the extra time is just years off your life & a waste of taxpayer's money. The law of diminishing returns comes into play. I don't think that any prison sentance should be more than 5 years. I think that we shhould be creative with what we do to them in those 5 years.
For non violent crimes, like property crimes that do not pose excessive hardship to the victims, etc, make them work it off. don't send them to prison. Tag & monitor them & if gainfully employed, garnish (sp?) thier waged till fine/reparations are repaid. They took something, make them repay it.
Simple drug possession & use, should not be criminal, peroid. If they do something harmful while under the influence that is different. I think spending $ on drugs that results in family hardship should be a crime on par with child neglect/abuse.
For the violent assholes,
We should decide first off whether or not we are going to try to fix the problems or eliminate them. No, they are not the same thing. If we are going to fix the problems, after sentancing it should be determine just what the fuck is wrong with them & judge if it is fixable. If it is fixable..fix it. If it is not fixable & they still pose a threat to society. Remove the threat permenantly by death or crippling.
If they have a drug problem, treat them. Give them no choice in the matter. Figure out some chemical that can be inplanted after they leave that will have a very unpleasant reaction with their drug of choice (yes even alcohol). Every time they do the drug they get ill or die.
If the person is the type of dugged/drunken prick that likes to get into fights & beat on people, they should be flagged as such. If they attack a regular average person, & that person kills them cripples them, whatever, all that should have to be determined is if the established prick started it. If he did, that's the end of it...he had it coming no charges, & his estate is used to pay compensation for any damage done to his victim.
In the case of these gangsta thug kids... Really, who cares if they came from broken homes or were abused or were disadvantaged? The fact that there are lots of examples of people in those exact same circumstances who do not act like thugs is enough not to use it as an excuse. People need to understand the difference between an explaination & an excuse.
If some of these underprivilidged kids fall through the cracks then they should be sealed up in them when we patch the cracks up. Sorry, there are far too many good kids that don't get the resources they need because we waste them on trying to fix everyone. In every family, city, country, etc the main product is our children & the people they grow up to be. Some people are too damaged to be fixed; it's called quality control.
I also think that those who are determined to be poor parents should probably be sterilized. Be proactive in eliminating as many of these problem people at the start. Parents should also be held criminally resonsible for what their kids do. If fines/ jail time won't get them to do the unthinkable & actually raise their kids...nothing will. If they truly are too much for them to handle give them an out; if they publically renounce their kids they are no longer responsible...the state will decide how to make these kids productive...even if it is to put them on tradmills to generate power.
Speaking of damaged people. Mental institutions shoud only be for those who require long term care because they cant care for themselves, or to cure those who are temporarily a danger to themselves or others. If someone is homicidally crazy forever, why are we warehousing them? If you cant fix them, examine them, gain all the understanding you can from them, take tissue samples for study & eliminate them. Someone won't take their meds? Give them a simple choice & one chance to make good on it. We could spend the resources wasted on these people to fully treat those we can actually help.
I think rape, child molestation, & murder should have 2 types of guilty verdicts: Guilty beyond reasonable doubt. which would carry a lengthy sentnce & Guilty beyond Any doubt which is immediate execution & the victim is given the option to do the deed themselves. I don't think there should be any age limits either. If you're old enough to plan & execute a rape or a murder, then you are old enough to pay for it. Like I said before...there are Far more people who can deal with the cards they were dealt in life without doing these things than those who can't.
To be brutally honest...there are far too many people on this world already. We should be reserving space for those who can function well enough not to rape, assault or kill. If you can't play nice, I really just don't care what your reasons are. They don't matter. If you are so badly damaged that you can't refrain from causing harm you should be eliminated if for nothing else but to make room for those who will.
Just imagine a world where there are even a few less of these worthless animals. Imagine having the Actual bad influences on you kids removed so that you won't have to form parent committees to go on the warpath against video games or tv or gunmakers just to make you feel as though you're doing something "for the children"......my god you might actually have some spare time to live your lives..
If you think these "poor disadvantaged people" need understanding & love & money & patience then you take care of them. Put them up in your house next to your wife & your kids on your dime. If they harm anyone its your problem. I for one am sick of wasting our limited resources on damaged goods
Bring on the bleeding heart hatemail
Nationalizing bullets & guns is far, far too late to even consider. Airport security & school security & all of this restrictive crap does the same thing: inconveniences honest people & does very little to deter a determined criminal.
It seems like we have really limited our punishment repitiore in the "civilized" world. Prison, fines, execution are the 3 overwhelmingly chosen punishments. W....T.....F? Are we really that unimaginative? You kill, you go to prison. You steal, you go to prison. You get caught with pot, you go to prison. Sure, theyre for different time periods, but really, after a year or 2 you're so used to the prison life that the extra time is just years off your life & a waste of taxpayer's money. The law of diminishing returns comes into play. I don't think that any prison sentance should be more than 5 years. I think that we shhould be creative with what we do to them in those 5 years.
For non violent crimes, like property crimes that do not pose excessive hardship to the victims, etc, make them work it off. don't send them to prison. Tag & monitor them & if gainfully employed, garnish (sp?) thier waged till fine/reparations are repaid. They took something, make them repay it.
Simple drug possession & use, should not be criminal, peroid. If they do something harmful while under the influence that is different. I think spending $ on drugs that results in family hardship should be a crime on par with child neglect/abuse.
For the violent assholes,
We should decide first off whether or not we are going to try to fix the problems or eliminate them. No, they are not the same thing. If we are going to fix the problems, after sentancing it should be determine just what the fuck is wrong with them & judge if it is fixable. If it is fixable..fix it. If it is not fixable & they still pose a threat to society. Remove the threat permenantly by death or crippling.
If they have a drug problem, treat them. Give them no choice in the matter. Figure out some chemical that can be inplanted after they leave that will have a very unpleasant reaction with their drug of choice (yes even alcohol). Every time they do the drug they get ill or die.
If the person is the type of dugged/drunken prick that likes to get into fights & beat on people, they should be flagged as such. If they attack a regular average person, & that person kills them cripples them, whatever, all that should have to be determined is if the established prick started it. If he did, that's the end of it...he had it coming no charges, & his estate is used to pay compensation for any damage done to his victim.
In the case of these gangsta thug kids... Really, who cares if they came from broken homes or were abused or were disadvantaged? The fact that there are lots of examples of people in those exact same circumstances who do not act like thugs is enough not to use it as an excuse. People need to understand the difference between an explaination & an excuse.
If some of these underprivilidged kids fall through the cracks then they should be sealed up in them when we patch the cracks up. Sorry, there are far too many good kids that don't get the resources they need because we waste them on trying to fix everyone. In every family, city, country, etc the main product is our children & the people they grow up to be. Some people are too damaged to be fixed; it's called quality control.
I also think that those who are determined to be poor parents should probably be sterilized. Be proactive in eliminating as many of these problem people at the start. Parents should also be held criminally resonsible for what their kids do. If fines/ jail time won't get them to do the unthinkable & actually raise their kids...nothing will. If they truly are too much for them to handle give them an out; if they publically renounce their kids they are no longer responsible...the state will decide how to make these kids productive...even if it is to put them on tradmills to generate power.
Speaking of damaged people. Mental institutions shoud only be for those who require long term care because they cant care for themselves, or to cure those who are temporarily a danger to themselves or others. If someone is homicidally crazy forever, why are we warehousing them? If you cant fix them, examine them, gain all the understanding you can from them, take tissue samples for study & eliminate them. Someone won't take their meds? Give them a simple choice & one chance to make good on it. We could spend the resources wasted on these people to fully treat those we can actually help.
I think rape, child molestation, & murder should have 2 types of guilty verdicts: Guilty beyond reasonable doubt. which would carry a lengthy sentnce & Guilty beyond Any doubt which is immediate execution & the victim is given the option to do the deed themselves. I don't think there should be any age limits either. If you're old enough to plan & execute a rape or a murder, then you are old enough to pay for it. Like I said before...there are Far more people who can deal with the cards they were dealt in life without doing these things than those who can't.
To be brutally honest...there are far too many people on this world already. We should be reserving space for those who can function well enough not to rape, assault or kill. If you can't play nice, I really just don't care what your reasons are. They don't matter. If you are so badly damaged that you can't refrain from causing harm you should be eliminated if for nothing else but to make room for those who will.
Just imagine a world where there are even a few less of these worthless animals. Imagine having the Actual bad influences on you kids removed so that you won't have to form parent committees to go on the warpath against video games or tv or gunmakers just to make you feel as though you're doing something "for the children"......my god you might actually have some spare time to live your lives..
If you think these "poor disadvantaged people" need understanding & love & money & patience then you take care of them. Put them up in your house next to your wife & your kids on your dime. If they harm anyone its your problem. I for one am sick of wasting our limited resources on damaged goods
Bring on the bleeding heart hatemail
In practice, this means reversing the corruption of manners. Right now so-called "freedom" and "individual rights" amount to recognizing the inherent sovereignty of jerks to be jerks and, moreover, act like jerks. How far have we sunk that it's been left up to Sayyed Qutb (and Bin Laden) to point out the complete degeneracy of manners and pathological, lawless way of life here.maxweber said:It seems to me that rebuilding civil society is the key.
MW
Polite manners used to be enforced by the community, e.g. if a man wanted to act like a complete jerk in a public place, another man or men would fix his wagon for him, and the cops would consider it a private affair. That's all out the window with zero-tolerance policies and such; a guy can't even get into a fistfight anymore without incurring a criminal record at least. The State has to fill the gap and make being an asshole a criminal offence. There will have to be a Doomsday book of anti-moron legislation, to be used to administer the legal beatdown the way old-time cops used to introduce street punks to Mr.Telephone Book in the interrogation room.
Trunc,
I agree with you entirely about manners. The corruption of civility is a terrible symptom of rampant asociality. That this symptom is regarded as a trivial and inconsequential loss is nearly as bad. A society full of rude people plainly has no concept of civic responsibility. Absent that, how can there be a working notion of citizenship? Absent that, how can a democracy operate? The relativist veneration of 'tolerance' has become an enshrinement of the right to amorality and dysfunctional selfishness.
To tie this back to our discussion of a few weeks back, Trunc, I would call this the perversion of enlightenment rather than its fulfillment. There's nothing rational about 'screw you, hooray for me,' whether practiced by Ken Lay or some turnstile-jumping adolescent. As Hobbes figured out, and fairly definitively, even, society is only possible at all through some sort of mutually agreed balancing of our greed and our compassion through mutual respect. Absent that, the steps to chaos are short indeed.
MW
I agree with you entirely about manners. The corruption of civility is a terrible symptom of rampant asociality. That this symptom is regarded as a trivial and inconsequential loss is nearly as bad. A society full of rude people plainly has no concept of civic responsibility. Absent that, how can there be a working notion of citizenship? Absent that, how can a democracy operate? The relativist veneration of 'tolerance' has become an enshrinement of the right to amorality and dysfunctional selfishness.
To tie this back to our discussion of a few weeks back, Trunc, I would call this the perversion of enlightenment rather than its fulfillment. There's nothing rational about 'screw you, hooray for me,' whether practiced by Ken Lay or some turnstile-jumping adolescent. As Hobbes figured out, and fairly definitively, even, society is only possible at all through some sort of mutually agreed balancing of our greed and our compassion through mutual respect. Absent that, the steps to chaos are short indeed.
MW
Truncador said:Polite manners used to be enforced by the community, e.g. if a man wanted to act like a complete jerk in a public place, another man or men would fix his wagon for him, and the cops would consider it a private affair. That's all out the window with zero-tolerance policies and such; a guy can't even get into a fistfight anymore without incurring a criminal record at least. The State has to fill the gap and make being an asshole a criminal offence. There will have to be a Doomsday book of anti-moron legislation, to be used to administer the legal beatdown the way old-time cops used to introduce street punks to Mr.Telephone Book in the interrogation room.
Well said Señor Trunc. But it ain't going to happen. I can remember the days when as a child, even up to my 20's we addressed every adult as Mr./ Mrs. One of the reasons I like Central America and South America, they are still living in the '50's
On the other hand they still have a big problem with tough guys willing to shoot each other over insults and so forth. The choice seems to be between more politeness and more violence vs. less politeness and less violence. There has to be a third, better way of doing things.Mcluhan said:Well said Señor Trunc. But it ain't going to happen. I can remember the days when as a child, even up to my 20's we addressed every adult as Mr./ Mrs. One of the reasons I like Central America and South America, they are still living in the '50's
