Vaughan Spa

Any Car enthusiasts out there?

Aug 17, 2001
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This guy is not a riot, this guy is an IDIOT. Are that stupid not to understand that Ford keeps building the Mustang just the way the buyers want it. Solid axle, big motor (not big enough) and a touch of roughness in true classic (and modern) muscle car style. The fact is , you can't even compare the new Mustang to any other car because it's the last of it's kind. His comparisons to the BMW or to the Golf really make no sense. What a Fuc*ing idiot.
 

lappie

New member
Nov 20, 2004
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He makes total sense. If you have never driven a real sports car, then the mustang would be perfect for you. However, if like me and the author have driven a real sports car you would understand just how pathetic an American made car is.

The mustang feels more like a lowered F-150. The engine performs just as well as my university car; a 1985 Honda civicm and the car has just as many options.

The mustang is a car that in 4 years is going to cost you big time in repairs because these guys cannot engineer a proper vehicle.

Save your money for your favourite SP. You will get a better ride.
 

new2game

New member
Feb 15, 2004
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What a joke...

...you have got to know this guy is an asshole....He has no understanding of the beauty of the sound of a North American V8..that purr it has when it idles...the raw power it delivers to the rear wheels in a way that no V6 can ever do.....Sure, in Europe..with it's tight spaces and winding roads...handling is a priority..but here in North America, we like the simple thrill of puttin the pedal to the metal....and being thrown back in our seat..as the speedo does that 0-100 km climb (still like the sound of 0-60 mph better),tires sqealling all the way...and for that thrill, considering the price..the Mustang GT delivers in spades...Now, some of you may enjoy F1 racing...personally I'd rather watch paint dry..Give me the ol' drag strip, funny cars, raw horsepower,burning rubber....yep two different world , for sure...and as much as the Euro cars deliver that "handling" feel ,I'll take that unrefined raw power that a v8 delivers any day..

N2G
 
Nov 17, 2004
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Sendai Castle
Yeah yeah, that old school low tech OHV 2-valve per cylinder backwardness? Winning races because of displacement?

C'mon, get with the times. This is the age of DOHC, 4-valves per cylinder and variable valve timing ...

Honda Integra Type-R forever brotha luv! 1.8L I4 DOHC VTEC 16 valve pushing out 197 HP! Now that is high tech! That is engineering!

Or the BMW M3. 3.2L I6 DOHC Double Vanos 24 valve pumping our 333 HP! That is insane engineering! That is ultra high tech!

- All naturally aspirated!

Yeah yeah, the Shelby Cobra 427 used to chase down Ferraris, but so what? Honda NSXs also chases down Ferraris and Porsches.

The reason why the Americans fall behind in auto manufacturing is because they do not understand Kaizen -continous improvement ...

Yeah, stick with y'all small blocks and take your 427s to the grave and be stagnant ...
 

Remo

Master of Sinanju
Nov 22, 2001
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Ahh Masamune-sama, "Honda NSX" that brings back memories of my first trip to Japan and exclaiming as one drove by "Oh look at that nice Acura NSX". My Japanese buddies just blinked "What the hell is Acura? That's a Honda you idiot."

As for the other people who menitoned "Sports Car" and Mustang. I think you run into problems when you call Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes etc. "Sports Cars". I don't know what to call them but North American "Sports Cars" just aren't the same as the rest of the world. The odd thing is they aren't really muscle cars anymore either. Sort of a weak attempt to combine them both where compromises have ruined the best of both and left us with a strange by-product.

While not without its charms, is hard to compare to other cars from around the world. I think its best if you don't. A Mustang is a mustang and that is whatever it is. You either love them or you don't. Its a very non intellectual thing, very gutteral I'd say.
 

Remo

Master of Sinanju
Nov 22, 2001
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DateMasamune said:
Yeah yeah, the Shelby Cobra 427 used to chase down Ferraris, but so what?
I guess if the road was flat and straight that might be true.


Homer Simpson: "Don't worry about the SUV's there is a gentle bend in the road ahead."

So applicable to all segments of the North American auto industry.
 

Mongrel4u

Guest
May 27, 2005
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Well I find this guy a riot for his analogies and choice of words... He has me rolling on every review.

Hes great entertainment IMHO... but as a car reviewer he sucks:

- Hes too conclusive, lacks perspective and objectivity. This guy has driven everything from Ferrari's to M5s toZondas and I guess for him to step out of great cars like thos into a Mustang is a little hard.

But as a "professional reviewer" and an enthusiast he should know better than to keep cars like that as a benchmerk when evalutation the mustang.

Yeah, I agree by no strech is there anything interesting about the engine... 300hp V8? Big whoop... there are NA V6s that can achieve that... and no the handling isnt much (albeit a big improvement over prior year mustangs) .. and the interior materials could be better but what do you want for 33K??

Yeah, compared to other cars that are even similarly priced the Mustang isnt much at all, but At least the Mustang stays true with what its supposed to be.... certainly wouldnt buy it

The only American I may consider would be a C6 or better yet a Z06 (latest model of course)... those arent bad at all
 

poorboy

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2001
1,269
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Some of you armchair racers should read up on the cars you trash.

The mustang has 3 valves per cylinder, just like some Mercedes. 4 Valves per cylinder are not needed in North America. Doesn't suit the North American driving style. 4 valves flow the max air at high rpms and the torque curve is higher up. 2 valves flow max air at lower rpms and have a lower torque curve. Horsepower gets you mph, torque gets you your elapsed time.
Then there's the whole packaging issue. 4 valve heads are huge compared to pushrod 2 valvers. They are also heavier.

As far as the Honda VTEC's go. I'm not impressed. You have to really wind them up to get the HP. Everyone around you will hear that. Fuel efficiency isn't that great either. The 2.2 liter in the Honda S2000 (which should be renamed the S2200 had to be increased .2 liters because of the lack of torque) gets only 1 or 2 mpg better than the 6 litre 400 hp Corvette, which by the way never needs to have its valves adjusted or the timing belt replaced because the valves are hydraulic and it uses a chain, unlike the Honda. Not only that, the Japanese have been caught recently overstating their hp figures. My parent's 225 hp Camry only produces 210 hp!

Any racer will tell you that winning is winning. It doesn't matter how you do it.

Solid rear axles are the best type of axle for drag racing. Independent rears are generally weaker because they have more places to break. Mainly the 4 cv joints. As well, when a car accelerates, the rear squats. In a solid axle car, the camber is fixed, so you get maximum contact patch. In a independent rear, the contact patch is smaller because the alignment changes and the wheels tip inwards.

The Mustang is a best seller for Ford and looks great. There is no better bang for the buck in the sports car market.
 

Meister

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2003
4,347
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DateMasamune said:
The reason why the Americans fall behind in auto manufacturing is because they do not understand Kaizen -continous improvement ...
The reason they fall behind is because of those damn union pension plans. GM is forced to cut costs wherever they can, but their quality actually has improved. And, that is not their own doing. It is getting better because they are using tier 1 suppliers for parts and engineering. Most car companies buy parts and engineering from the same tier 1 anyway, Magna, Bosch, TRW, Aisin...

You are not really buying a North American car anymore. You are just buying North American assembly.
 
Nov 17, 2004
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Sendai Castle
poorboy said:
Some of you armchair racers should read up on the cars you trash.

The mustang has 3 valves per cylinder, just like some Mercedes. 4 Valves per cylinder are not needed in North America. Doesn't suit the North American driving style. 4 valves flow the max air at high rpms and the torque curve is higher up. 2 valves flow max air at lower rpms and have a lower torque curve. Horsepower gets you mph, torque gets you your elapsed time.
Then there's the whole packaging issue. 4 valve heads are huge compared to pushrod 2 valvers. They are also heavier.

As far as the Honda VTEC's go. I'm not impressed. You have to really wind them up to get the HP. Everyone around you will hear that. Fuel efficiency isn't that great either. The 2.2 liter in the Honda S2000 (which should be renamed the S2200 had to be increased .2 liters because of the lack of torque) gets only 1 or 2 mpg better than the 6 litre 400 hp Corvette, which by the way never needs to have its valves adjusted or the timing belt replaced because the valves are hydraulic and it uses a chain, unlike the Honda. Not only that, the Japanese have been caught recently overstating their hp figures. My parent's 225 hp Camry only produces 210 hp!

Any racer will tell you that winning is winning. It doesn't matter how you do it.
What you say does have some truth to it. At Mercedes, it seems like they are in love withtheir 3 valves/cylinder set up. However, in the past couple of years, they are also in love with super and turbo charging their cars. It just isn't the same when you do that. That is why I have more respect for BMW then Mercedes in terms of engines and the experience.

Besides VTEC, the Japanese also have i-VVT and MiVEC ... basically all the same stuff, variable valve timing to squeeze more out of each piston cycle. And yes, when Japanese cars are concerned, you really have to rev them up inorder to produce that "ummmmph". However, things have changed because of a flatter torgue and horsepower curve thanks to electronics.But its a hell lot better then American cars when the redline is only 5-6000 RPM. And it is obvious American cars can crank out 300 HP when they have a 5L plus V8 engine.

And hence, American sports cars are called muscle cars/pony cars cause their only purpose is to produce "ponies" no matter the method. But is it efficient? And are they fun to drive? Perhaps not ...

On the other hand, you have little Miata (170 HP), Civic SiR (160 HP), Integra Type-S (201HP) ... these cars are fun to drive and a fun driving experience is all one needs. I would choose any of the above mentioned cars over a Camaro SS, Firebird, or Mustang anytime ...
 

pepsiman

New member
Jul 27, 2004
402
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stang said:
Horsepower is over-rated. Anyone ever heard of torque?


(oops again) :(

I do not believe you can compare brute power from any of the big three like 427 chevy 428 ford or the 426 chysler to some high winding jap car . any of these engines are capabile of 150 mph in a two ton car and would set you back in you seat at 50 mph .
I have drove these very motors so I am not just blowing air (jap cars need blowers to even campare ha ha )
Even the chevy small block put out 360 hp in 70 camaros and were clocked for 150 mph:: and would do it if you balls were big enough .
The one sitting on my front lawn do not even have power steering or power brakes. If anyone does not believe it is a sports car :: I can MAKE you a believer .
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,069
4,004
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First off, I love the looks of the new Mustangs. (And I drive a G-35 by the way). The new mustang is a head turner, with the right amount of retro and right amount of new looks. I especially like the paint styles and colours I see.

I also see A LOT of new Mustangs on the road. So that in itself says things.

As far as the performance goes, I have't been keeping up with the data on this one, but the mustang was most likely designed to be exactly what it is. An affordable head turner, lots of fun, not all that practical, and peppy enough to get the job done.

It comes down to dollars and cents kids. All this crap about Ford not being able to put together a decent engine is a load of shit. Ever heard of Cosworth. Problem is, high pro engines cost a lot of money, and need a lot more maintenance.

Oh, and one last thing.

The cheif designer of the car is Asian.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0401/14/a01-35456.htm

Nice job Hau Thai-Tang
 

poorboy

Well-known member
Aug 18, 2001
1,269
107
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The "All American" Corvette was made a performer by a Russian immigrant named Zora Arkov Duntov, and the 68-82 was designed by Larry Shinoda who also designed the Boss Mustangs of the late 60's if I'm not mistaken.

For those who don't think driving a Mustang or Camaro isn't fun, probably hasn't driven one. There's nothing like immediate horsepower and the sound of 8 cylinders firing while leaving two black strips behind you.
 

covered-one

New member
Aug 31, 2004
58
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0
east
Hey we could argue about cars for days....
I've grown to appreciate different rides over the years. As a 40 something
male the new Mustang brings back alot of memories of the early 70's just wishing you could drive that Mustang the guy had up the street.
There are alot of great rides out there that serve many different purposes.
There is no one great car that satisfies everyone..( just like SPs, we all have our different needs *S*) I had a ride in the new Z06 vette last week and it was amazing but wouldn't want to own one. If my numbers came up I'd have a hard time choosing....maybe a M5, Denali with big honkin rims, Ferrari 612 Scaglietti...for sure the new Shelby Mustang when it comes out....
everybodies dream would be different as it should be. For now I'll just rip on my Ninja 1100 and keep dreaming *S*
 

skinnyguy

Active member
Oct 7, 2004
596
216
43
Clarkson is way off base. Almost universally the new Mustang has been praised by journalists as being an excellent car, especially when value for dollar is considered.

I've had the opportunity to drive the new car on the street, and on a race circuit, and it's fantastic. 10 times the car that the previous generation Mustang was.
 
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