Anyone believe Steven Harper will reduce the GST?

[dreamer]

Sure it will, in a minority government he won't be able to back out of it.

They would need a majority government to do it, hence Strongbeau's point.

I could be wrong but I doubt the NDP would support a reduction in GST as opposed to proper income tax reductions to keep the conservatives in power. In fact, I am not even sure if the bloc would want a reduction since it would mean less sales tax for Quebec.

 

[Svend]

No, if we all pay the same percentage it's a regressive tax compared to an income tax where the rich pay a higher percent.
The NDP have said they feel sales taxes are regressive, so I think they'd support this move.

 

[dreamer]

No, if we all pay the same percentage it's a regressive tax compared to an income tax where the rich pay a higher percent.
The NDP have said they feel sales taxes are regressive, so I think they'd support this move.

That is not what you said the first time. You said it was regressive because "the poor pay a larger percentage of their income on them than the rich" which is simply not true.

The NDP feel alot of things, but stating that the GST is regressive is ignoring the refundable tax.

I cannot speak for the NDP but I fail to see how they could support a reduction that clearly favours the rich. I could see them do some negotiations where the refundable tax is actually increased as well, but then I do not know how the conservatives could accept that.

I can see the NDP wanting sales tax totally eliminated with an increase in income taxes to replace the lost tax. The NDP have a spending agenda and I do not see how they could support tax reductions.

Actually I see the NDP keeping the sales tax like the Liberals ended up doing but increasing the exemptions and increasing the refundable tax. Of course if they wanted to keep overall taxes collected the same they would have to increase the tax rates for the middle class.

The problem is we all believe we can have more services and pay less tax. Maybe the conservatives are right, cut all services, reduce taxes and let us fend for ourselves

 

[Svend]

I said percentage of income, you're the one who said same percentage.
The poor pay a larger percentage of their income on the GST since they don't invest any money. The middle class are in the same boat plus they don't get any GST refund.

 

[dreamer]

I said percentage of income, you're the one who said same percentage.
The poor pay a larger percentage of their income on the GST since they don't invest any money. The middle class are in the same boat plus they don't get any GST refund.

I just quoted what you said, but I think I am starting to understand your point.

Are you saying that rich people use a higher percentage of their income on non taxable items, and hence they pay a lower percentage on total income because of that. I can buy that argument but it ignores the refundable tax.

Here is the bottom line, on an absolute basis, because the GST is a tax based on consumption, the higher income earners contribute the most tax dollars and they will be the ones that benefit from any reductions in the GST rate, not the low income earners.

If a government was serious about making the GST system better they would not lower the rate, they would increase the refundable tax and possibly also increase the upper limits.

Whether we agree that the current GST system is regressive or not is irrelevant. The conservatives plan will not help the poor in any significant manner, but it will put more money in the pockets of the rich. I do not see the NDP supporting that.

 

[to-guy69]

Funny how trailing in the polls brings this type of propaganda bulls@#t on...

 

[Coach]

This election campaign will be filled with many promises, by all parties. Unfortunately, it will be a minority government, I'm guessing the Fiberals will sneak in. The Blockheads, will have the 3rd most seats and them or the NDP will hold the balance of power. In late 2007 or early 2008 we will go through this all again. Such a fiasco.
reduc the GST, cut taxes, increase Health Care spending,increase foreign aid to keep Bono happy ( I don't mean Sonny), blah blah blah...same old same old.

 

[tboy]

Ok people reality check here.....

IF the GST is reduced what do you think will happen to retail prices?

If you think they will drop by 2% you are kidding yourself.....

let's examine what happened when they switched from the FST to GST:

(I know this for a fact as I was employed in the retail sector at the time)

When they dropped the 13% FST and replaced it with the GST at 7% all that happened was retailers received an immediate 5% price increase. How did this happen you say? Well, they were supposed to reduce their prices accordingly but it was only a recommendation by the government at the time.

Therefore all those cheap prices we were looking for never occurred.

It was a while ago but basically the memo said that instead of spending x amount of dollars changing all the price tags and reprogramming all the prices in the computer they just have to add the GST at the cash register during checkout. This way they achieve the 5% increase in price, without actually having to do anything. WHile it was stated that this was optional on the dealer's part, it was strongly urged for all to do this, chainwide.

Of course all the dealers complied. Hell, who wouldn't take an automatic increase in profits?

In this case we will probably see an automatic increase on all products of 2%.

That is, IF this actually happens. As if a politician will actually KEEP his campaign promises? LOL I think that any politician that doesn't keep his promises should be treated like any other employee that lies to get a job: HE SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY.

 

[Gord's Bro]

Harper is the biggest BS... the pc party brought the GST.

But that was the Progressive Conservative party.

The new Conservatives are a whole new animal -- or should I say monster??

G's B.

 

[booboobear]

Will Stevie come through or is just more BS?

I believe he would but really even if he didn't it would not surprise me .
A cut of 1 % first year with another 1 % really is nothing except for the rich , they will save $ 800 on a 40 k car but it's not enough of an incentive for the average person. How about a straight $ 500 rebate for everyone.

 

[Svend]

So if the GST is great, we should hope they increase it to 50%?

 

[johnhenrygalt]

That is, IF this actually happens. As if a politician will actually KEEP his campaign promises? LOL I think that any politician that doesn't keep his promises should be treated like any other employee that lies to get a job: HE SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY.

I agree 100%. And since Paul Martin has not kept his campaign promises from 2004 (or from his leadership campaign), I trust we can count on your unfailing support for the Conservatives in order to fire Paul Martin. And then, if Mr. Harper renegs on his promises, you can count on my support to fire him in turn.

 

[RTRD]

Or...

Harper's plan to reduce the GST is not very well thought out, in my opinion.

The GST is a neutral tax, while a income tax reduction can be designed to help those who need it.

...perhaps it is VERY well thought out.

The GST isn't "neutral"...it benefits those who have the most (and thus are able to purchase the most, and pay the most sales tax) the most. It does nothing virtually nothing for the lower income classes, people who aren’t likely to vote for Harper anyway (immigrants, the working poor, etc.)

The ironic thing is, those who would most benefit are the people who need a cut the least. Yes, I think it sucks that I have to pay GST...being new to Canada I still do a double take every time I buy something and see the difference between the "list price" and the actual "purchase price"...but really, for anything less expensive than say a car, it doesn't influence my buying decisions at all. I've never decided against a purchase because of the GST, and the only time I can honestly recall it coming into play was when I was making the lease / buy decision on my new car.

The point being - while middle class people like myself probably complain bitterly about it, really...how much impact on our lives does it have?

By comparison, income tax (as I think you were trying to point out) is graduated....those who make the most pay the most on a sliding scale. Cut incomes taxes for those at the lower end of the scale you are providing the greatest benefit to those who most need it, while (ironically) doing the "least" harm to your budget, as those folks contribute the smallest amount to the government coffers anyway.

Now, somebody somewhere is claiming that cutting the GST and / or income taxes for the middle class and above will benefit the economy. For the income tax cut...there could be some truth to that...especially if we are talking the REAL middle class here, not the moderately wealthy and above (those people pay a less percentage of income tax than I do anyway, because they have access to tax avoidance measures I don't). For the GST? I don't buy that argument - I just refuse to believe that the 20% of the population that does the 80% of the consuming really makes buying decisions over that last 7% of tax. I just don't.

You want to REALLY stimulate the economy though? Make mortgage interest deductible. I STILL can't get over that it isn't deductible here. That puts SIGNIFICANT amounts of money in every homeowners pocket, thus feeding the economy. It gives people reason to make the jump to home ownership versus renting, thus feeding the economy (building a home and filling it with goods puts more people to work than any other activity in our economy). And it would get a guy elected.

GST? Purely election politics. Besides, he won't keep the promise anyway, after the first 2% (so what? yeah...gonna have to pass on that big screen...I can't come up with that last $40...). Wanna impress me? Make mortgage interest deductible.

 

[RTRD]

True....but...

All sales taxes are regressive because the poor pay a larger percentage of their income on them than the rich. I'd rather see the income tax increased, I don't need the daily reminder when shopping.

...since they do far less spending, the benefit to them is questionable.

I could see a targeted GST reduction, along the lines of what "The Block" is selling. Eliminate the GST on essential items...basic clothing (clothing items under say $200...that is how it works in New York State), on food, things of that nature.

As has been said, if you want to REALLY help those who need help, you cut income taxes.

 

[Svend]

I agree, income tax does a better job of redistributing wealth. The GST is a complicated mechanism for stores to act as government collection agents, not efficient at all.
I can see a GST being sold to penalize consumption, but the government doesn't want people to reduce buying goods.
I still see the GST as a regressive tax if everyone pays the same rate.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

Deductible mortgage interest (which would be like reducing the interest rates by 40%-50%, depending on your marginal rate) would merely serve to drive up the cost of housing, and encourage Canadians to contract even more debt. Canadians are already spending more than we save - this would not help.

No, cut the GST, with the view eventually to eliminate it, and we're on the right track. And knocking 2% off the cost of new homes will help the housing market too. If eventually we killed the GST, then maybe some of the renovation and construction industry will move out from under the table as consumers will be less willing to support tax evasion by paying cash.

 

[Aircraft]

Now that's a bargain!

No he didn't, that's why Sheila Copps resigned from politics. She promised us she would if the Liberal party didn't scrap the GST. Thank God Sheila was an honest politician.

Let me see, ummmm; if the GST had been removed, Sheila would not have resigned. Ummm, the GST costs me maybe $1,000 a year; her resignation has not cost me anything. God I love the GST!

 

[ruck]

Ahem..a politician keeping his promises....??? I don't think so..

Mike Harris did...and he got booted from office the next time election rolled around.

 

[guelph]

actually there was a politician a few years back in Ontario that made some promises, people voted and he actually kept them, got all sorts of special interest groups and unions all riled up!! his name was Mike Harris, and now you know the rest of the story

And we all know what that did to Ontario.

 

[The Green Bastard]

Fuck the Liberals, I would rather take my chances with a different party.

Well Said!