Are Mac's too expensive?

[Hobbyer]

I get the same thing said all the time about i can build a PC for less ... so can i but when i need 30 MacPro's .... it way easier to order then to build .... just among on of the arguments.

exactly, one other thing. People forget about their time and effort and know how is worth something. This knowledge didn't come free, you either wasted your own time learning to do it or accumulated through school etc etc. Maybe it's a hobby so it's not considered a cost, but the point is an average non computer savvy Joe would waste alot of time learning, and why bother? I used to build all my PC's, my family's etc etc... now could not be bothered, complete waste of time.

Here's a question for those who advocate PC's are cheaper because they can built. How much would you charge a complete stranger if they asked you to do it? Including researching the parts to ensure compatibility, ordering it/picking it up, putting it together AND guaranteeing against defects for a year? Whatever your price, I doubt that it is FREE.

smoke & mirror only works for a bit, if Macs were not as reliable and fun as they claim to be, that "apple tax" would quickly become an "apple tax break" in order to keep customers coming back.

I don't use Macs at home and probably never will, but they certainly do have a viable value proposition, IMO.

 

[WoodPeckr]

- I choose to pay more for a better experience....

LOL!
I choose linux for that better experience and pay nothing.

Funny thing, if Mac is so great why is market share only ~5%?

PCs rule and always will.
PCs are just as reliable and cheap. My 12 yr old Pent 2, PC still hums along fine with no problems. Never had any of those problems with PCs that are always brought up. Believe most problems occur to people who don't know what they are doing. Have used all 3 systems, M$, Mac and now prefer the utter simplicity of Linux that does ALL the Mac does, and more and doesn't cost a penny....

 

[Goomer]

Funny thing, if Mac is so great why is market share only ~5%?

5% used to be the Mac market share. Well guess what, it's closer to 10% now! That's right, the Windows grip on the PC market is slowly loosening, as more and more people search for alternatives, in both Macs and in Linux. Of course, that market share is skewed because of the millions of business PC's out there, and we all know that businesses see computers simply as tools and will always search out the cheapest ones to buy, regardless of reliability and efficiency (ie. having to pay their IT people good salaries to keep maintaining and defragging the computers, antivirus software licenses, OS licenses etc.).

http://www.tuaw.com/2009/01/02/apple-market-share-tops-10-windows-share-lowest-since-tracking/

In the consumer marketplace, where people have a choice in what they use, things look a little different. Apple now has a 21% marketshare in this area. This is no small feat, because they're not just up against MS, but they're also up against every major PC manufacturer out there including DELL, HP, Lenovo, Gateway, Acer, Toshiba, Sony etc.

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/01/analyst-apples-us-consumer-market-share-now-21-percent/

Many years ago, Michael Dell told an audience that Apple should just close down and give the money back to their shareholders. Well he's had to eat crow since then, as Apple has surpassed his company's net worth by a mile, and now could literally buy DELL with just cash in hand (Apple currently has about $30 Billion in cash).

So yes, Apple's marketshare is still low compared to Windows, but if you compare Apple's marketshare against other manufacturers (let's face it, Apple is a computer manufacturer), the numbers look a little different. Even more different are the numbers in the consumer market, which is the market that Apple is fighting in. In the education market, the numbers look even more different, where Apple is dominating! And let's not even discuss the explosive growth in their other OSX platform, the iPhone and iPod Touch!

Bottom line is that the marketshare numbers have been radically changing over the last few years, and will continue to do so for some time.

And yes, I'm an Apple fanboy!

 

[masterchief]

look at the security and reliability (OSX has no viruses and virtually never crashes)

I always love how Mac users use this stat about being more secure than a a pc...which is bs.

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/06/12/hacked-intosh
http://news.google.com/news?q=osx+viruses&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7DACA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=CZgzSo-4JabAMsCh9ZoK&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=1&ct=title
http://www.spamlaws.com/mac-virus.html

And as for never crashing...sure but just wait until you accidentally delete a file and try to recover it. Or better yet when you have to go get your Mac repaired....it can join the large pile of broken Macs at Carbon Computing from the owners that refuse to pay to fix them.

 

[Goomer]

I always love how Mac users use this stat about being more secure than a a pc...which is bs.

And as for never crashing...sure but just wait until you accidentally delete a file and try to recover it. Or better yet when you have to go get your Mac repaired....it can join the large pile of broken Macs at Carbon Computing from the owners that refuse to pay to fix them.

Wow, 2 whole viruses! That's amazing.....that makes Macs just as risky to use on the internet as PC's with their many thousands of viruses! And for you to get those two viruses, you have to download them and plug in your password granting them authorization to get into your system. Exactly the same as getting a virus on a PC! I have never used antivirus software on my Mac, and have never had a problem, something I'm unable to say when I used to have a DELL laptop. And let's not even discuss malware that just crept in the dark recesses of the OS plugging up your system!

As for accidentally deleting a file, use Time Machine, an amazing backup tool installed on every Mac, that allows you to travel back in time to recover any deleted file. All it takes is an external HDD plugged in to backup your machine automatically, something every computer user should be doing anyways to protect their valuable data. Just plug it in, and Time Machine will ask you if you want to use this drive for Time Machine backups. Click yes, and that's it.....backups done in the background on an hourly basis, without you having to do more than click yes! Easy as pie!

As for repairs, a Mac can physically break just like any other machine. They have moving parts and things can break! Apple has their standard one year warranty, as well as their optional extended Apple Care warranty. Beyond that, you'd have to pay to fix it just like any PC. Are you claiming that PC's don't break, or that every PC maker will fix it for free 4 years down the road? And as for service, take it to an Apple store where you'll get excellent service. You don't need to use Carbon Computing if you don't want to. What do you do if you have a DELL, oh wait, you have to ship it to a far away place and never actually speak to someone face to face. Now that's great service! lol

As for longevity, Macs are like Honda's when it comes to resale value. Scour Craigslist ads for 4 year old G5 iMacs, and you'll still see them going for $800. What's a PC worth after 4 years....maybe a couple hundred bucks? I'll sell my G5 20" Imac next near (when it will be 5 years old) when I want to upgrade, and I'll probably be able to still fetch $600 to $700 for it, allowing me to upgrade to my dream 24" iMac with some financial buffer.

 

[Nefari]

I went Mac, and never looked back!

These comparisons about stats/price make me laugh. Fine, so a PC with equal stats will cost 30% less. Load up Norton anti-virus on your PC and tell me if you can still work as fast as that mac with the same stats. Factor in all those blue screens and errors you get from Windows, and tell me if you're still as fast.

 

[masterchief]

Wow, 2 whole viruses! .

Yeah, but at first you mentioned that there weren't any. By the way there are more than two; I just didn't feel like pulling every article on viruses and the total easy of hacking into a Mac.

Also, consider the numbers, Mac's are less than 10% of the market, so of course the PC with 90% is more susceptible to the machinations of those that build viruses.

It had nothing to do with the security of the Mac, but more of the fact that the bulk of the world outside of North American cares little for them.

As for accidentally deleting a file, use Time Machine, an amazing backup tool installed on every Mac, that allows you to travel back in time to recover any deleted file. All it takes is an external HDD plugged in to backup your machine

Well that involves dragging around an external HDD, which is a little detrimental to having a notebook then doesn't it. That doesn't solve the inherent problem that with every Mac OS (and I've been using Macs since the first one came out) is that document recovery is non-existent.

The best solution that they came up with is Time Machine....which requires you to purchase another peripheral. That’s not addressing the issue.

If we were using cars as an analogy, the Apple solution to an inefficient gas tank that leaks would be to expect you to drive around with a spare one, and extra fuel too, instead of fixing the problem.

What do you do if you have a DELL, oh wait, you have to ship it to a far away place and never actually speak to someone face to face. Now that's great service! lol.

Actually Dell has an amazing repair program in Ontario that usually gets your PC back to you within 3 business days (2 of them being for the shipping to and from your home) and the costs outside of a warranty are pretty low.

As opposed to the Mac, and they have to send your machine out to some service centre for several weeks to get looked at. That is after you have to drive it to the local Mac store.

 

[enyaw]

You cannot compare these 2 machines. One is in a different class both in os, ease of use, security, etc. The price issue is mute, either you can afford it or you can't. Security issue no contest. longevity/reliability no contest. Can you run osx on a windows box? Didn't think so, it works the other way around though. And if all else fails, everyone should run LINUX as a secondary os, this goes out to Woody.

 

[bitplate]

3 in 1 machine

Personally, having OSX, *a very powerful unix, Ubuntu, XP and or Vista running on one computer makes for a very powerful development platform.
I'd much rather log into my servers with terminal than with Putty and the ability to compile run and test my code on all the above mentioned platforms makes macs the ideal choice for myself and many of my fellow developers.
Besides, winclone and time machine makes having a mac a joy. Most pc users I've met don't even know that time machine exists..

the PC / Mac argument has been going on for as long as I can remember..
I for one love the idea that I can run 97% of all the software out there on the market today.

For me Mac is a better choice.. for others.. well if cost is your most important motivator, then choose something else. I'd love to have an i7 with an x53 board... multiple GPU's and run OSX.. *can we say hackintosh?

What ever floats your boat..
B

 

[Funky Chicken]

I gave up on PCs 5 years ago. I now have 4 Macs at home and my home is PC-less.

Sure PCs may have a 'cheaper' initial cost, but the costs of ownership of a PC adds up to WAY higher than a Mac. These costs include:

- buying software for your PC (Macs come with iLife, a suite of great apps which would cost you extra on a PC)
- subscribing to anti-virus software
- cost of upgrading your PC in about 2 years time

I bought my G5 PowerMac 5 years ago and it's still going strong. And I do push my machine quite a bit as I use it to run my recording studio.

When I owned PCs, I had to replace them every 2 years...cost aside, the headaches of changing computers so regularly were just too frustrating for me.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Hobbyer]

So yes, Apple's marketshare is still low compared to Windows, but if you compare Apple's marketshare against other manufacturers (let's face it, Apple is a computer manufacturer), the numbers look a little different. Even more different are the numbers in the consumer market, which is the market that Apple is fighting in. In the education market, the numbers look even more different, where Apple is dominating! And let's not even discuss the explosive growth in their other OSX platform, the iPhone and iPod Touch!

Bottom line is that the marketshare numbers have been radically changing over the last few years, and will continue to do so for some time.

And yes, I'm an Apple fanboy!

Apple is definitely making a dent into the market share. One thing though, Apple is far, far from just a computer manufacturer. Just cannot compare them straight up with Dell. Apple is an innovator. To properly value Apple you have to look at what they do. 1) Operating System 2) Assemble 3) Electronic Products (i.e. iPod) 4) Application Software (i.e. Aperture, Logic) 5) Wireless Phones, and 6) most importantly, innovation across all these platforms.

No other assembler does all of these things. If anything, Apple is a Microsoft and a Dell together. Dell is strictly an assembler with little value add. It sells commodities (PCs). However, doesn't necessarily mean Dell is a worst investment per se, it depends on what you're looking for in your portfolio.

 

[dreamblade]

Well said, Hobbyer. It all boils down to personnal needs.

Yes the Mac is a joy to use. People mention the "Apple Experience" and that is a big factor. The Windows desktop is a knockoff of the Mac, and because of that, you now find a computer in every home, as opposed to 15 years ago, when the computer was just a geek tool.

However, is it more secure? No it isn't. As Masterchief pointed out, Apple has only 10% of the world market share. So no viruses are yet created targeting Apple users. Let's watch what happens in the next few years when those of you so proud of not having security software will eat plenty of crow. Remember, the Airbook, so touted for its security, was cracked in 20 minutes. FYI, yelling out that you don't have any security on your PC is like walking down the street singing your doors don't have locks and you have huge un-curtained windows... an open invite to anyone popping in.

All in all, we can boil it down to this: PC's are for the DIYers, Mac is for people who want things done for them. I'm not a huge fan of the latter philosophy, mainly because it promotes intellectual laziness. You want things done for you, you will have to pay. You have to pay, you have less money to spend on other, worthwhile things (like hobbying ).

I prefer to know how to do things myself, gives me better control of the world around me.

 

[masterchief]

Apple is definitely making a dent into the market share. One thing though, Apple is far, far from just a computer manufacturer. .

Well don't forget that Apple farms out alot of work too. The Ipod is actually manufactured by HP in most cases, and let's not forget the fact that Mac's now pretty much almost look like PC's on the inside.

I won't make too much of a fact that Apple is still around because of Bill Gates either.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Sure PCs may have a 'cheaper' initial cost, but the costs of ownership of a PC adds up to WAY higher than a Mac. These costs include:

- buying software for your PC (Macs come with iLife, a suite of great apps which would cost you extra on a PC)
- subscribing to anti-virus software
- cost of upgrading your PC in about 2 years time

I bought my G5 PowerMac 5 years ago and it's still going strong. And I do push my machine quite a bit as I use it to run my recording studio.

When I owned PCs, I had to replace them every 2 years..

All 3 points are totally invalid when using Linux and to a degree M$ PCs also.

Linux provides you with ALL your SW for free.
Both M$ and Mac sell extra SW and Mac SW DOES cost MORE than M$ SW.

Linux requires NO anti-virus like your Debian/unix based Mac distro you paid for.
For the 12 yrs I've run M$ I've never paid for anti-virus. I've either used what came with the PC or used free AV which worked for me just as well as paid AV SW. Free AVG and now Avast work fine.

I've never had to replace a PC 'every 2 years'!
This seems a bit of overkill.
As a matter of fact I still use my 12 yr old Pent 2 PC, which after spending <$120 on critical upgrades still runs XP Pro and Ubuntu 9.04 very well thank you. Gateway made a darn good box back in '97.
Using it now to post this running Linux while Amarok plays Miles Davis 'Kind of Blue' album.....
BTW that Pent 2, Gateway STILL HAS FREE PHONE SUPPORT to an AMERICAN CALL CENTER till 2025! Once in awhile I give them a call on a tech question and they are amazed I still use this antique and how well it performs!
Can you say the same for your Mac?......

 

[bitplate]

Just for the record, Mac OS X is based on Debian (I'm now writing this in Debian-based 64Studio).

Can you supply a reference to this statement please?

 

[WoodPeckr]

Can you supply a reference to this statement please?

Mac OS has much in common with the ~100 Linux flavors used today.
The big joke Linux users often repeat is, Mac is the only Linux flavor you have to pay for.....

Debian (pronounced /ˈdɛbiən/) is a computer operating system composed of free and open source software. The primary form, Debian GNU/Linux, is a popular and influential Linux distribution.[3] It is distributed with access to repositories containing thousands of software packages ready for installation and use. These packages are distributed under free software / open source licenses. Debian is known for strict adherence to the Unix and free software philosophies as well as using collaborative software development and testing processes.[4] Debian can be used as a desktop as well as server operating system.

Mac OS X is based upon the Mach kernel.[8] Certain parts from FreeBSD's and NetBSD's implementation of Unix were incorporated in Nextstep, the core of Mac OS X. Nextstep was the object-oriented operating system developed by Steve Jobs' company NeXT after he left Apple in 1985.

Mac OS X's core is a POSIX compliant operating system (OS) built on top of the XNU kernel, with standard Unix facilities available from the command line interface. Apple released this set of software as a free and open source operating system named Darwin. On top of Darwin, Apple layered a number of components, including the Aqua interface and the Finder, to complete the GUI-based operating system which is Mac OS X.

As of 2009, Mac OS X is the second most popular general-purpose operating system in use, after Microsoft Windows, with a 9.6% market share according to statistics compiled by Net Applications.[28] In contrast, it is the most successful UNIX-like desktop operating system ever released, estimated at over 10 times the penetration of the free Linux, and 1,000 times the penetration of the next most successful commercial UNIX, SunOS.

 

[lovelatinas]

Macs are superior to PCs. They are expensive and I wish I had a MAC. :-(

 

[WoodPeckr]

Macs are superior to PCs. They are expensive and I wish I had a MAC. :-(

LOL!
They are, like Sony, overrated and pricey. That said they have a great marketing dept that could probably sell you a bridge to nowhere.....

 

[canucklehead]

Well don't forget that Apple farms out alot of work too. The Ipod is actually manufactured by HP in most cases, and let's not forget the fact that Mac's now pretty much almost look like PC's on the inside.

I won't make too much of a fact that Apple is still around because of Bill Gates either.

iPod is manufactured by the same company in Taiwan where HP iPaqs were made ..... they are not made by HP.
Yes there is Malware for the Mac .... but still no virus.. a virus needs to be self propagating.....
OSX is BSD .... yes it is more secure.
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=471

I have a 99 purple imac running Leopard on it ... still checks email still plugs away.... does everything it did back then.... pre P2 .
There is an OS for everyone and every use... but don't be a hater with out some education or experience.

 

[masterchief]

iPod is manufactured by the same company in Taiwan where HP iPaqs were made ..... they are not made by HP.
.

Actually for a while they were, as part of a marketing idea to use HP's brand to help sell 2nd gen Ipods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod%2BHP