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Are you finally with her? The Hillary Clinton paradox- Ignore Hillary Clinton at your own peril

Knuckle Ball

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Oct 15, 2017
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Are you finally with her? The Hillary Clinton paradox
Ignore Hillary Clinton at your own peril
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump (Photo illustration by Salon/Getty Images)

Once again, Hillary Clinton is absolutely correct.

During an interview last Monday on the "Tonight Show," host Jimmy Fallonasked Clinton the following question: “I mean, it's Biden versus Trump. What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices?"

Clinton responded:

You know, it’s kind of like, one is old and effective and compassionate, has a heart and really cares about people; and one is old and has been charged with 91 felonies. I don’t understand why this is even a hard choice. Really. I don’t understand it. But we have to go through the election and, hopefully, people will realize what’s at stake because it’s an existential question: What kind of country we're going to have, what kind of democracy we're going to have [it is] pretty clear about what kind of country they want . . . Get out there and vote."
Clinton’s warning to the disinterested and fence-sitters, that they need to get in the fight and stop engaging in purity tests and searching for the non-existent perfect candidate regarding their decision to vote for President Biden, is still needed. A large number of Americans are politically disengaged and still refuse to understand (or perhaps even care) that Trump and his MAGA people and the larger antidemocracy movement are an extreme danger to the country. Even worse, there is a large percentage of Americans — Trump followers, “independents,” and undecided voters — who have convinced themselves that the horrible Trump presidency, with its mass death from COVID, ruined economy and coup attempt, was “the good old days” and yearn to return to them.

Greg Sargent explains in a recent essay at The New Republic:

Some new polling from a top Democratic pollster finds mixed news for Team Biden on this front: Large swaths of voters appear to have little awareness of some of Trump’s clearest statements of hostility to democracy and intent to impose authoritarian rule in a second term, from his vow to be “dictator for one day” to his vague threat to enact “termination” of provisions in the Constitution.
This is but the most recent example of Hillary Clinton telling uncomfortable truths about the existential danger embodied by Donald Trump and his MAGA coalition. She has personal experience with Trump and his allies’ capacity for skullduggery and evil. Trump has continued to publicly threaten Clinton’s safety. Given Trump’s promises to be America’s first dictator and his attraction to violence and other pathological behavior, Clinton knows that she must take him and his followers very seriously. (Never forget that Trump infamously threatened Clinton in 2016 with “2nd Amendment people.”)

To that point, as detailed by Gabriel Sherman in a new must-read article at Vanity Fair, Donald Trump is much closer to winning the 2024 election than many members of the news media and general public would like to admit.

Ultimately, this yearning for Donald Trump to become President of the United States for a second time is a symptom of a deep malaise and sickness in American culture and society where it appears that tens of millions (if not more) people have a collective compulsion towards self-destruction. This is very common behavior in a society that is experiencing multiple crises and does not have the maturity or capacity to process its death anxieties in a healthy and productive way.

As I try to make sense of this sick yearning and poisoned nostalgia, I have been returning to the work of the highly influential social psychologist and psychoanalyst Erich Fromm. In a 1973 essay in the New York Times about Fromm’s then-new book, “The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness,” Sara Sanborn wrote the following:

Fromm covers much of this ground again, analyzing Heinrich Himmler and Josef Stalin as case studies of the sadist driven by the need to dominate. He also presents a new type of malignant character, the “necrophilous,” which is animated by a desire for sheer destruction. The sadist is not necessarily lethal; since his leading desire is for control, he will want to keep the victim alive. Nor will he necessarily inflict pain, which is merely the logical extreme…of the relationship. The necrophile, however, is driven by a love for all that is dead, destroyed or decaying—or, the author believes, in a modern departure—for what is unalive and purely mechanistic….
Thus American society stands broadly convicted of necrophilia — as opposed to biophilia. And Erich Fromm becomes the 10,000th American writer to remark the mechanization of death‐dealing in Vietnam and to note that the self‐destructiveness of drug addiction is not surprising in the youth of life‐denying culture.
Some fifty years later, Fromm’s concerns speak directly to the Trumpocene and how the American people got here and hopefully can escape it before we run out of time.

When I am emailed or otherwise speak with people who tell me that they are principled liberals, progressives or “good lefties”, which in their minds means they cannot in good conscience support President Biden, I have a standard reply. I tell them to make a list of all the issues they purport to care about so much. Look very carefully at the list. There is not one real issue on that list that Donald Trump, his MAGA people and the Republican Party will address in a way that you would like. Moreover, they will make all those things far worse in ways you likely cannot even imagine. Thus, to convince oneself that not voting for Biden is a type of great strategic move and the long game where the Democrats will be forced to adapt after they are defeated in the 2024 election is silly talk to the extreme. Donald Trump will be America’s first dictator; he and his successors will not leave power; burning down the proverbial village in order to save it does not work.

So please listen to Hillary Clinton and the other alarm-sounders this time. They are trying to save the American people and American democracy. But in the end the American people will have to exercise the agency, intelligence, reason, and be responsible enough to save themselves.




Hillary was right in 2016 and she is right now.
 
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Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Biden is old, yes. Effective, no.

But I agree he is better than Trump.

But the fact of the matter is, that the Americans have to choose between 2 horrible choices.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,417
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Ghawar
Only a Democrat who wants to convince people to vote in a Republican
to become the next POTUS would better be ignored.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
28,973
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Because calling people deplorable worked last time so hey, lets go with it again.

This time is was "get over yourself", deleted from the Author's article. She really doesn't get just how despised she is.
 

Skoob

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Jun 1, 2022
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Are you finally with her? The Hillary Clinton paradox
Ignore Hillary Clinton at your own peril
Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump (Photo illustration by Salon/Getty Images)

Once again, Hillary Clinton is absolutely correct.

During an interview last Monday on the "Tonight Show," host Jimmy Fallonasked Clinton the following question: “I mean, it's Biden versus Trump. What do you say to voters who are upset that those are the two choices?"

Clinton responded:


Clinton’s warning to the disinterested and fence-sitters, that they need to get in the fight and stop engaging in purity tests and searching for the non-existent perfect candidate regarding their decision to vote for President Biden, is still needed. A large number of Americans are politically disengaged and still refuse to understand (or perhaps even care) that Trump and his MAGA people and the larger antidemocracy movement are an extreme danger to the country. Even worse, there is a large percentage of Americans — Trump followers, “independents,” and undecided voters — who have convinced themselves that the horrible Trump presidency, with its mass death from COVID, ruined economy and coup attempt, was “the good old days” and yearn to return to them.

Greg Sargent explains in a recent essay at The New Republic:


This is but the most recent example of Hillary Clinton telling uncomfortable truths about the existential danger embodied by Donald Trump and his MAGA coalition. She has personal experience with Trump and his allies’ capacity for skullduggery and evil. Trump has continued to publicly threaten Clinton’s safety. Given Trump’s promises to be America’s first dictator and his attraction to violence and other pathological behavior, Clinton knows that she must take him and his followers very seriously. (Never forget that Trump infamously threatened Clinton in 2016 with “2nd Amendment people.”)

To that point, as detailed by Gabriel Sherman in a new must-read article at Vanity Fair, Donald Trump is much closer to winning the 2024 election than many members of the news media and general public would like to admit.

Ultimately, this yearning for Donald Trump to become President of the United States for a second time is a symptom of a deep malaise and sickness in American culture and society where it appears that tens of millions (if not more) people have a collective compulsion towards self-destruction. This is very common behavior in a society that is experiencing multiple crises and does not have the maturity or capacity to process its death anxieties in a healthy and productive way.

As I try to make sense of this sick yearning and poisoned nostalgia, I have been returning to the work of the highly influential social psychologist and psychoanalyst Erich Fromm. In a 1973 essay in the New York Times about Fromm’s then-new book, “The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness,” Sara Sanborn wrote the following:


Some fifty years later, Fromm’s concerns speak directly to the Trumpocene and how the American people got here and hopefully can escape it before we run out of time.

When I am emailed or otherwise speak with people who tell me that they are principled liberals, progressives or “good lefties”, which in their minds means they cannot in good conscience support President Biden, I have a standard reply. I tell them to make a list of all the issues they purport to care about so much. Look very carefully at the list. There is not one real issue on that list that Donald Trump, his MAGA people and the Republican Party will address in a way that you would like. Moreover, they will make all those things far worse in ways you likely cannot even imagine. Thus, to convince oneself that not voting for Biden is a type of great strategic move and the long game where the Democrats will be forced to adapt after they are defeated in the 2024 election is silly talk to the extreme. Donald Trump will be America’s first dictator; he and his successors will not leave power; burning down the proverbial village in order to save it does not work.

So please listen to Hillary Clinton and the other alarm-sounders this time. They are trying to save the American people and American democracy. But in the end the American people will have to exercise the agency, intelligence, reason, and be responsible enough to save themselves.




Hillary was right in 2016 and she is right now.
Go home Hillary. You had your chance and you failed. Get over it.
Don't keep Bill waiting or he won't wait for you as usual.
 
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silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
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It makes you wonder what would have happened if Clinton won the electoral college vote. I wonder how her response to COVID would have been. There would've been no Biden presidency, Trump would have avoided all the criminal charges and some of the damage to his reputation, and he probably would've happily played golf every day...
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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It makes you wonder what would have happened if Clinton won the electoral college vote. I wonder how her response to COVID would have been. There would've been no Biden presidency, Trump would have avoided all the criminal charges and some of the damage to his reputation, and he probably would've happily played golf every day...
War in Syria.
 
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y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
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Lewiston, NY

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
18,687
5,247
113
Lewiston, NY
It makes you wonder what would have happened if Clinton won the electoral college vote. I wonder how her response to COVID would have been. There would've been no Biden presidency, Trump would have avoided all the criminal charges and some of the damage to his reputation, and he probably would've happily played golf every day..
Highly doubtful if Hil would have sucked up to Vlad Putin or Kim Jong Un and Stormy Daniels would be just another very talented porn star👅...
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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And all those Covid corpses?🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗🦗...
Considering any distancing regulations were at the state level, and Trump did immediately authorize funding for vaccine research and distribution, I think it would have been a negligible difference.

All those stupid, stubborn folks would still have been that way.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
28,706
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So please listen to Hillary Clinton and the other alarm-sounders this time. They are trying to save the American people and American democracy. But in the end the American people will have to exercise the agency, intelligence, reason, and be responsible enough to save themselves.


Hillary was right in 2016 and she is right now.
People won't.
There's a reason the name "Cassandra" started getting thrown around at one point.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
82,071
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No argument, this shit is never going to work in the long run. Only thing is, this is not something that can be done this year. Another 4 years of Trump would set positive changes back by decades and a vote for JFK Jr is a vote for that Trump/Putin ticket...
I dunno. Trump is full on senile right now and will be destroyed with a few more months in court.
The dems need to change and push out all those who support genocide.
The US survived 4 years of rump before and if that's what it takes to clean up the dems maybe its a risk you have to take.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
28,706
51,192
113
Ahh, a Canadian who can't vote posting an Australian who can't vote to show their keen insight into how Americans should vote.:rolleyes:

More seriously though, I do appreciate that he doesn't pretend it is about anything other than "punishing" Biden and the Democrats.
He's clear about his motives at least. Doesn't really bother pretending its about making things better for Gaza.

(That he's pretending to believe the "Biden is senile" thing is probably just for the comedy portion of the act.)
 
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