http://toronto.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=to_shooting20040825
anybody caught up in all this this morning?
anybody caught up in all this this morning?
Armed Standoff Downtown TO
- Thread starter Marbles
- Start date
Sheik is EVERYWHERE!
"It was an unbelievable thing to see. It was like something out of a movie," Sheikh told The Star's Curt Rush.
He was passing a hotdog stand on the south side of Front when he saw a man grab a woman who was walking by and put a gun to her head. Sheikh said the man appeared to be confused.
Sheikh ran to the hotel and watched as the hostage taker was shot. He said the man took a small step backwards and then fell.
"It was an unbelievable thing to see. It was like something out of a movie," Sheikh told The Star's Curt Rush.
He was passing a hotdog stand on the south side of Front when he saw a man grab a woman who was walking by and put a gun to her head. Sheikh said the man appeared to be confused.
Sheikh ran to the hotel and watched as the hostage taker was shot. He said the man took a small step backwards and then fell.
Amazing what a bank can do to you (referenceing the TD Building he started at)
But seriously, I was amazed that they shot the guy and killed him. But I wasn't there to see what happened, so it may have been their only resort as apparently he was ignoring eveeyone. I wonder if a toxicology report comes up with anything ... or as a real head turner ... what if the gunman was deaf and couldn't communicate.
I heard the press conference and it seemed that there was a brave front that this was the only way to apprehend the gunman was to kill him. Could have been an unlucky shot though and the intention was only to injure.
We won't know the whole story for days I guess.
But seriously, I was amazed that they shot the guy and killed him. But I wasn't there to see what happened, so it may have been their only resort as apparently he was ignoring eveeyone. I wonder if a toxicology report comes up with anything ... or as a real head turner ... what if the gunman was deaf and couldn't communicate.
I heard the press conference and it seemed that there was a brave front that this was the only way to apprehend the gunman was to kill him. Could have been an unlucky shot though and the intention was only to injure.
We won't know the whole story for days I guess.
Dave, I think you'll find if they had to take the shot that there was no intent to just injure. If they must take the shot, it is shoot to kill, period.Dave - WebGuy said:
Don't forget, these are highly trained marksmen that could most likely hit a dime at 500+ yards.
And I agree that if they had to resort to a takeout shot, they felt he was quite capable of wounding or possibly killing his hostage at any moment. Don't forget, he had already wounded another woman prior to taking his hostage.
According to the newsDave - WebGuy said:
- he had already fired his gun once at the TD centre and injured a woman.
- he had already been approached by a cop and ran away
- he next took a hostage on the street at gun point.
- he had pointed his gun at the hostage and at police officers
- he was reportedly acting in a deranged manner and was unresponsive to police requests.
- he is downtown at the height of rush hour in front of the main exit of the largest train station.
Do you really think they had much choice? Do you really think that their intention was to injure?
In a situation like this, where they fear for the safety of the public and/or hostages, their intention is to instantly incapacitate the gunman. This is done with a carefully aimed head shot. Any other shot may leave him capable of discharging his weapon. It is my understanding that this type of shot is usually made with the permission of a more senior cop and only taken when a very high probability opportunity presents itself.
If he is mentally ill it may be unfortunate that it results in the gunman's instant death but, you have to protect others. I'm certain that there is one traumatized cop out there today that has to live with this.
I'm not doubting that the Kill shot was warranted. He had already inflicted gun shot wounds on another person. He likely received the proper reaction for his actions.
My comment at the end towards Fantino was because he was very confident that the police had done their job (as he is supposed to do as part of his job), but had no info that he could offer towards the situation in regards to details.
I think the press conference should have waited an hour or so until he and the officers involved could get together and be clear on what happened.
Too often things happen with the police and Fantino jumps to the press and gives them a sound clip, then 2 more press conferences. His only information that he could offer was the location of the first shooting, the description of th Plain Duty Officer (But no name, but he may need to protect that info).
It may turn out that the story has a lot more backend info that will come out that may make us think....
"believe none of what you read or hear, and only half of what you see"
My comment at the end towards Fantino was because he was very confident that the police had done their job (as he is supposed to do as part of his job), but had no info that he could offer towards the situation in regards to details.
I think the press conference should have waited an hour or so until he and the officers involved could get together and be clear on what happened.
Too often things happen with the police and Fantino jumps to the press and gives them a sound clip, then 2 more press conferences. His only information that he could offer was the location of the first shooting, the description of th Plain Duty Officer (But no name, but he may need to protect that info).
It may turn out that the story has a lot more backend info that will come out that may make us think....
"believe none of what you read or hear, and only half of what you see"
Dave, all respect, but that is simply the stupidest thing I think I've seen on this board.Dave - WebGuy said:
He communicated fine with a gun to a women's head. Ooops, sorry you're deaf...a government grant might be available to help you talk to the police.
Ooops, sorry you're deaf, let us call in a sign-er so we can all understand what you're saying.
ROLLING EYES
gala said:
Every time a shooting situation comes up, the public is always heard to say "couldn't you have shot to wound only"?
I think the best response to that would be, if you were the hostage, would you want the police to just attempt to wound the guy holding you at gunpoint?
Right.Sheik said:
Officer: "Get Fantino on the phone! It looks like the guy's going to pull the trigger..."
Supervisor: "Sorry, he's in the john right now."
Officer: "Oh shit...."
*BLAM*
Officer: "Never mind. He just killed the hostage. Forget it."
--------
The police do have some latitude to think on their feet.
Sheik is right. (OMG did I just say that?)
But then again my remarks are always in such poor taste.
(My previous post was a direct quote from the Toronto Star.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...415&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154)
Exactly. If someone waves a gun around in public, especially pointing it at a hostage's head, and do not put it down at the request of the police then they are just asking to get themselves shot! Quite being such bleeding hearts. What? The police should just have waited until ... he shot the hostage ... ?!?Sheik said:
But then again my remarks are always in such poor taste.
(My previous post was a direct quote from the Toronto Star.
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...415&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154)
Re: Sheik is right. (OMG did I just say that?)
Still tragic from lots of angles.
No, your one remark was in poor taste. In this instance, I agree with you. It seems to me that those who tend to take hostages and wave guns around are asking to be shot. Wish granted.tompeepin said:Exactly. If someone waves a gun around in public, especially pointing it at a hostage's head, and do not put it down at the request of the police then they are just asking to get themselves shot! Quite being such bleeding hearts. What? The police should just have waited until ... he shot the hostage ... ?!?
But then again my remarks are always in such poor taste.
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Still tragic from lots of angles.
I'm glad they shot him. He shouldn't have put innocent peoples lives at risk in the first place.
Word coming out of CBC just now is that he pistol-whipped his estranged wife, and then ran through the food court taking shots at her.
Buh bye.
Buh bye.
Well one witness was saying that is seemed like what you see in movies and most people think thats a cool scene in a movie. But this was real life and i bet it wasn't cool to be there this morning.
I think the police acted appropriately. Their was innocent bystanders and the only way to keep them safe was by taking out the suspect.
I think the police acted appropriately. Their was innocent bystanders and the only way to keep them safe was by taking out the suspect.
