They could have won in 93? except for Gretsky's cheap shot on Gilmore, and blind referees.zanner69 said:
Bad coaching
- Thread starter Don
- Start date
but it wasn't because the leafs had Burns behind the bench - it's because Killer and Wendy were playing amazing and the leafs played like a team!!pussylicker said:
Everytime Canada fails to win gold, all the armchairs come out and everyone is a genius. I wonder why no one asked you to coach or put together the team?? Maybe because none of us, me included, know as much as we think we know.
Pat Quinn did not forget how to coach over the strike year. The Leafs were a couple of games away from the finals, and he consistantly has them in the playoffs and challenging for the cup. This year is different. New rules and a poorly planned team, Fergie's fault, not Pat's. They also have no room under the cap, so they are resigned to ride out the season and plan for next year.
As for Canada, who is to say that Spezza, Crosby and Staal would have won Canada gold?? Who know what would have happened if Bertuzzi was left off the team. They say hindsight is 20-20, but I say hindsingt is looking out your ass!
Things will be better next Olympics and we must just learn to accept the fact that Canada is not going to win every tournament. Everyone needs to relax and accept facts.
Pat Quinn did not forget how to coach over the strike year. The Leafs were a couple of games away from the finals, and he consistantly has them in the playoffs and challenging for the cup. This year is different. New rules and a poorly planned team, Fergie's fault, not Pat's. They also have no room under the cap, so they are resigned to ride out the season and plan for next year.
As for Canada, who is to say that Spezza, Crosby and Staal would have won Canada gold?? Who know what would have happened if Bertuzzi was left off the team. They say hindsight is 20-20, but I say hindsingt is looking out your ass!
Things will be better next Olympics and we must just learn to accept the fact that Canada is not going to win every tournament. Everyone needs to relax and accept facts.
It's unfair to blame Quinn for the problems of the Maple Leafs.
They had an owner (Ballard) who spent most of his tenure undermining the team, and, the present management group isn't much better. They are only interested in profits, they couldn't care less about developing a team that could contend for the Cup.
How much better would the Leafs be today if they had what they gave up for Leetch and Nolan?!
They had an owner (Ballard) who spent most of his tenure undermining the team, and, the present management group isn't much better. They are only interested in profits, they couldn't care less about developing a team that could contend for the Cup.
How much better would the Leafs be today if they had what they gave up for Leetch and Nolan?!
people still complain about that!pussylicker said:
c'mon...
During the last Stanley Cup playoffs, Lecavalier suffered a worse assault than Gilmore received from Gretz and still scored the game winning goal in game 7 to win the Lightning the cup!
if the leafs were going to win, they would've. period.
I accept the fact that Canada will not win every tournament. But I have a hard time accepting the fact that we can get shutout 11 of the last 12 periods and go 1 for 20 something in PP over the last 4 games. Something went terribly wrong here. If we played fine in the prelims and then just lost 2-0 to Russia in the QF in a hard fought game, I wouldn't really have too much of an issue here.chica69 said:
Another possibility
I am sure the diehard hockey addicts will be all over me for this but my observation, as a casual fan of the game is EGO. I mentioned it in another thread but to me I don't think we had a TEAM so much as a bunch of guys wearing the same uniform. Thats it ,nothing in depth.
I am sure the diehard hockey addicts will be all over me for this but my observation, as a casual fan of the game is EGO. I mentioned it in another thread but to me I don't think we had a TEAM so much as a bunch of guys wearing the same uniform. Thats it ,nothing in depth.
On the contrary, this season, Quinn has had to use more youngsters on the Leaf team (except his first season) and the shitty results show, whereas in previous seasons with a shitload of veterans, they did much better. And with the "new NHL", I too would've thought Quinn's Leafs woul'dve done better, but injuries to a good chunk of starting lineup is a killerbailerson said:
Coaching/Management
Was it really Quinn's fault for poor coaching ? remember he has Hitchcock & MArtin to help. They coached collectively in Salt Lake & Turin.
Now let's ask Gretzky: yeah he individually takes the blame for the loss - so the others (Lowe,Tambellini, Nicholson) don't have to shoulder it. But when Canada wins, he takes all credit. Sickens me to see him posing front row center in Team Canada on ice celebration photo both Salt Lake & World Cup. He should not be in front row!!!
This team lineup was pre-set before the NHL season began despite Gretz saying they would tinker based on who's hot first half of season. As everyone says, why were the young hot scorers left off the team ? The young scoring stars could've benefitted from this Olympic experience & head into Vancouver 2010 well prepared. And some players were playing with injuries going into the Olympics, e.g. idiot Pronger, Redden, Iginla, McCabe and a few others undislosed.
And what if Wayne was not coaching Phoenix ? He was sapped. He could've devoted more time into player evaluation. Compounded by his family members deaths & Tocchet Gate, Gretz was not totally focused.
Was it really Quinn's fault for poor coaching ? remember he has Hitchcock & MArtin to help. They coached collectively in Salt Lake & Turin.
Now let's ask Gretzky: yeah he individually takes the blame for the loss - so the others (Lowe,Tambellini, Nicholson) don't have to shoulder it. But when Canada wins, he takes all credit. Sickens me to see him posing front row center in Team Canada on ice celebration photo both Salt Lake & World Cup. He should not be in front row!!!
This team lineup was pre-set before the NHL season began despite Gretz saying they would tinker based on who's hot first half of season. As everyone says, why were the young hot scorers left off the team ? The young scoring stars could've benefitted from this Olympic experience & head into Vancouver 2010 well prepared. And some players were playing with injuries going into the Olympics, e.g. idiot Pronger, Redden, Iginla, McCabe and a few others undislosed.
And what if Wayne was not coaching Phoenix ? He was sapped. He could've devoted more time into player evaluation. Compounded by his family members deaths & Tocchet Gate, Gretz was not totally focused.
It was just like many of Quinns Leaf teams - better personell, but that just makes the resemblence even more shocking. All the hallmarks were there:
-Poor discipline: by my count 3 unsportsmanlikes in 6 games for yapping at officials. Penalties at dumb times. McCabe twice created a 2-man dissadvantage.
-Poor overall defense: Even with better d-men, there was no overall system or concept applied to shutting down a specific team.
-Awfull PP: Again no overall concept, style or defined roles for players (except Bertuzzi) and a random mix'n'match approach to the PP personell.
-The general feeling of wasted energy, hard but misplaced effort & aggression.
-Poor discipline: by my count 3 unsportsmanlikes in 6 games for yapping at officials. Penalties at dumb times. McCabe twice created a 2-man dissadvantage.
-Poor overall defense: Even with better d-men, there was no overall system or concept applied to shutting down a specific team.
-Awfull PP: Again no overall concept, style or defined roles for players (except Bertuzzi) and a random mix'n'match approach to the PP personell.
-The general feeling of wasted energy, hard but misplaced effort & aggression.
That 2002 team didn't play that impressively most of the tournament. They owe one game to Brodeur, they got a huge boost from a somewhat servicable Lemieux, and big break with the draw that put them in Sweden's bracket and eventually a medal-round Game with Belarus!
I'm just saying they had alot of problems in common with the Leafs.
I'm just saying they had alot of problems in common with the Leafs.
Agreed. What they did do however was gel and improve as a team over the tournament, same as Team Canada '72 and other Canadian teams over the years. For whatever reason(s) this year's version did or could not.Hard Idle said:
All I'm saying if you're gonna blame Quinn (and equally Hitchcock and Martin) for the loss, then he deserves equal credit for winning it in '02, which basically means he forgot how to coach over the last 4 years.
IMO, he deserves as much credit or blame as a single player would. The coach, for such an elite team, basically opens and shuts the door to the bench. Not much coaching is involved.
Game/Rules Evolve in 4 yrs. buuut Can stands PAT
My take on this is that too much loyalty (eg. standing with the old guard Pat Q, etc.) both with the coaching staff and types of players selected means clearly that Gretzky, et al didn't do their homework properly in picking the team. Old and tired legs (Sakic), muckers (Draper/Doan), skilled? cheap shot artists (Bertuzzi), slow lumbering defence (Pronger), etc. made Canada look like dinosaurs on skates when Finland, Russia and Sweden seemed to have speed, youth and "hunger" in abundance. And where was the famous Canadian will and HEART??!...Losing 2-0 to lowly Switzerland was a disgrace and will in my view go down as a major low point in the annals of Canadian sport. No excuses there...but not making a major line up changes with more young guns thereafter compunded that loss even more..the message was sent to the other BIG teams was 'yes this humiliation was simply an aberration. next game everything will be OK' Of course, the other teams new better, smelled a wounded foe and then went for the jugular...all of this was really laughable, predictable and sad. All the while Staal, Spezza and Crosby could have blossomed on the world stage. Not thinking to give them a chance to get at least some experience before Vancouver 2010 was a huge error in judgement. Let's hope for Golden Redemption in 2010...
My take on this is that too much loyalty (eg. standing with the old guard Pat Q, etc.) both with the coaching staff and types of players selected means clearly that Gretzky, et al didn't do their homework properly in picking the team. Old and tired legs (Sakic), muckers (Draper/Doan), skilled? cheap shot artists (Bertuzzi), slow lumbering defence (Pronger), etc. made Canada look like dinosaurs on skates when Finland, Russia and Sweden seemed to have speed, youth and "hunger" in abundance. And where was the famous Canadian will and HEART??!...Losing 2-0 to lowly Switzerland was a disgrace and will in my view go down as a major low point in the annals of Canadian sport. No excuses there...but not making a major line up changes with more young guns thereafter compunded that loss even more..the message was sent to the other BIG teams was 'yes this humiliation was simply an aberration. next game everything will be OK' Of course, the other teams new better, smelled a wounded foe and then went for the jugular...all of this was really laughable, predictable and sad. All the while Staal, Spezza and Crosby could have blossomed on the world stage. Not thinking to give them a chance to get at least some experience before Vancouver 2010 was a huge error in judgement. Let's hope for Golden Redemption in 2010...
