Basement question.

[papasmerf]

People have been building over dirt for more centuries then we can immangine.

You can build a floor on it with no real peoblem, if you do it right.

But first the issue of is the dirt floor dry druing the spring thaw and heavy rains, must be answered.

Now if it is dry then aside from the need to barrier off the moisture and provide adiquate ventilation to the dirt, the rest is easy.

How high if the ceiling in the basement???

How do you plan to finish the floor(s), ceiling, walls????

 

[Cardinal Fang]

As you noted papasmerf, adequate ventilation (crawl space) would be required under the wood floor to prevent condensation being trapped. This is also a required measure under most local Building Codes. My concern is that the dirt floor may or may not be close to the foundation footing depth. Exposing the footings is dangerous and could require underpinning.

He needs to contact a reputable contractor to explore all the alternatives.

You can go here and ask your question:

http://www.construction-resource.com/forum/

 

[Doctor Zoidburg]

Gentlemen, I need you expertise.

Like I said, I will do it properly next summer, But I need you exper opinions to know what sort of problems I might run into in a temporary situation if I just put plastic sheets and prywood over the floor for temporary use? (with a humidifyer in the basement) The place is quite dry and about 15 celcius most of the time, it does not go below 50 celcius even on the coldest days.

 

[baci2004]

I f you must use the space, lay down some 2x4's or skids then place your stuff on top. Covering the floor with plastic or plywood will create a moisture/mold problem even in the short term.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

Seriously Doctor, talk to a reputable contractor about your situation. There are more questions here than answers.

 

[baci2004]

Re: Gentlemen, I need you expertise.

it does not go below 50 celcius even on the coldest days.

Hmmm, maybe moisture isn't really a problem then.

 

[wop]

The conservative way is the best way...

Moisture and dirt are the greatest enemy of any house, so yes, get an expert (read "consultant"), then get prices from 3 recommended licensed and insured contractors, and for sure...get a permit, have the work inspected by both the local building authorities and the consultant.
It boggles my mind how people will want to take shortcuts maintaining and working on the biggest purchase they ever made, their biggest asset and the thing that keeps their family safe from cold/wind/rain.
I would say do not approach this with the "I got a better idea" mentality. Stay with the tried and true.
After all, it is your house, your biggest investment and your family's health you are playing with.
Oh, by the way, I have been in construction in various capacities for about 30 years...and Fang has never been more right than in this thread.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

*Picks up 140mm 75% solid concrete block and walks off to find wop*

 

[Doctor Zoidburg]

Thanks for the info!

I think I will place 2x4s and sheets of plywood on top for temporary use till the summer. Then I will have a cement slab poured an the walls and ceiling properly done.



* TRIVIA Why are italians called WOPs?...........................................................See the answer on my new post! TRIVIA

 

[Doctor Zoidburg]

rubmeister,

I will do this temporarily till spring,it is quite warm and humidity free down there now. I do not think it is a good idea to pour cement when it is cold.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

I do not think it is a good idea to pour cement when it is cold.

That's not true.

Concrete in this situation, can be poured up 4 degrees C (40F). If the temperature in the basement reaches below that you can still pour concrete providing that the concrete is air entrained and has a minimum of 2% Calcium as an additive. This will cost a little more. The money you would spend on the "temporary floor" would easily cover the extra cost of the air entrained concrete.

Construction does not stop in the winter around the city just because it gets cold.

P.S. Sheik is also correct. Fark! I hated typing that.

 

[Cardinal Fang]

MY GOD, SOMETHING OF VALUE TO BE LEARNED ON TERB.

Concrete is not a vapour barrier and moisture will migrate through it over time. Costs very little and has no downside.

YES! YES! YES!

Excellent point rubmeister. This simple mistake is being made in new home construction constantly and as you pointed out, it cost so little to prevent.

 

[wop]

Poly under concrete? and I suppose you want mesh too? and you don't want us to tear the poly while running on it with wheelbarrows full of concrete? Spoken like a true office guy.
6-8 inches of clear stone is just as effectve as a sheet of poly(check your construction manuals) and that is what good builders do in new construction.

Sheik was right?? And I missed it?? FARK!!!

*wop wonders if Fang wears a size 9, or size 10 cement shoe?*

 

[baci2004]

Re: Thanks for the info!

* TRIVIA Why are italians called WOPs?...........................................................See the answer on my new post! TRIVIA

That's easy! Most people will tell you that it is an acronym for with out papers/passport; What it really is, is the sound a smartass mangia cake makes when hits the floor after accidentially *winks* falling off of a 3 tier scaffold.

 

[wop]

rubimiester100...

Please don't assume that my background doesn't include the use of vibrators (concrete is plastic, not liquid), or that my job does not include constant evaluation and upgrading of my work and skills in the field.
I was only pointing out the difficulty in maintaining the integrity of the plastic sheet during the placement of the slab in basements, not that it doesn't work.
In the past I have protected the plastic with a 1-2 inch layer of sand, but that adds time and expense.
I have also placed the sheet under the stone, directly on top of the dirt. Don't know if this actually helps, because so many basements are fine without plastic sheets. Slabs seem to perform quite well on their own under normal conditions.
As far as clear stone goes, if the stone bed is thick enough, then the moisture has a place to reside without being under pressure. It is a differential in pressures that causes the moisture to migrate through the slab. (Ask a Civil Engineer for a more complete explanation).
Of course if there is water present due to a high water table, a faulty perimeter drainage system or a leaky foundation, then that changes the whole thing.
A sheet of plastic in those conditions is only a stop gap measure. A good under-slab drainage and sump pump sytem, or a good foundation wall repair and perimeter drainage repair is then needed.
I respect the wealth of experience you have, and the amount of undoubtedly quality work you have done, but I see no need to speak disparagingly about an idea that you have not had expereince with, or to describe others as "hacks" in order to get work.

Oh, and it is spelled "paesano" and "cimente"

I wonder if Sheiks go WOP when they hit the ground with their size 13's?

 

[wop]

2 professionals..and Fang, agree...

Yup, it can do no harm...
Just like these little exchanges we have here on terb, no harm, and often lot of good.