Black customers must prepay the cost of their meal

[futbolplaya]

Im in a different time zone right now and it's very early and I'm not up for an extensive google search. Damn Jet lag. But I remembered reading about the Chinese restaurant thing and there was an example of a woman actually who owned a chinese restaurant and was hauled before the labour board for the issue and simply chose to not attend or cooperate. I really doubt they sent the cops after her, though if they wanted to I'm sure they could step up the pressure, but I'm sure she would just figure out a work around.

Gotcha, I think I saw someone post something about courts/prison and I'd absolutely agree with you. Nobody's going to jail for ignoring the human rights commission.

But would various levels of governments allow them to operate their business freely and without issues, that to me is another question.

 

[Garden of Eden Ladies]

You mean they look like they could be a problem because they are black? Lol your comment is racist and you don't even realize it... And what do you mean by "potential problem"? Either you are a problem in which you should be asked to leave or you are not

Wow, just love how you try to twist my words. I never said they looked like a problem because they are black. So no, I don't mean that. I just said they looked like a problem and just happened to be black. Potential problems could be any of the following... They looked wasted, They looked like they didn't have money, They looked gangsta or thuged out, They had a bad attitude or did or say something that made the server believe they were gonna rip them off.

You have obviously have never been to this restaurant on a night after the clubs end or you would have understood my statement. Have you even been to this restaurant?

And what do you mean by "potential problem"? Either you are a problem in which you should be asked to leave or you are not

No offense, but with a statement like that, I seriously question your intelligence.



Thanks

Nicole King.

 

[oil&gas]

Besides deterrence against discriminations to the blacks
in the future what good the hefty fine would do? To
enrich the politically correct bullies of the Human
Rights Tribunal?

I just notice I could be mistaken to say the restaurant was
fined. More precisely the restaurant (or its owner?) was
ordered to pay Emile Wickham $10,000.

I read that the night when Wickham was asked to prepay
he actually didn't stay for the meal he ordered. He got
a refund and left with his friends. The $10,000 payment
is more like a compensation to Wickham than a fine paid
to the Human Rights Tribunal.

$10,000 is a pretty generous compensation for being
pissed off by some low scale eatery in that dumpy area
called Chinatown. I guess the payment is strictly not
a fine if the restaurant is to pay WIckham directly
rather than the Human Rights Tribunal.

 

[Garden of Eden Ladies]

Well I guess GOE is off the list.

Why? Because I am familiar with the place and don't believe they asked them to prepay because they were black? That's pretty harsh.



Thanks


Nicole King

 

[futbolplaya]

Why? Because I am familiar with the place and don't believe they asked them to prepay because they were black? That's pretty harsh.



Thanks


Nicole King

TLDR: Yes.

If you wanna understand my POV, lets start with The Star article:

Wickham, now 31, at the time a York University student who worked as a legislative usher at the Ontario Legislative Assembly, was born in Trinidad and Tobago and immigrated to Canada more than a decade ago. A decision document in the case describes him as “visibly Black or Afro-Caribbean.” All the members of Wickham’s group that night were Black.

According to the decision released on April 18, after the group sat down the server told them they would need to pay in advance of being served their meals. They asked the server whether this was necessary, and the server said it was their policy.

Wickham testified during the tribunal case that he asked patrons in “at least three” other groups if they were asked to do the same. None said they were subject to the same request.

“Upon learning that no other patrons had been asked to prepay for their meals they asked the waiter to explain why they had to pay and no one else had been expected to do so,” the decision says.

“Rather than offer any explanation for the prepayment he simply asked them whether they wanted their money back.”

Based on the photo and description, one would get the impression the gentleman in question would seem to present as neither "gangsta" or "thuggish" and like someone capable of paying for their dinner.

The fact that you feel it necessary to bring in additional evidence and explanations to justify what many people would see as blatant racial discrimination is telling. This seems akin to the recent Philadelphia Starbucks incident where black patrons were clearly treated differently on racial grounds by store staff. I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor, that the simplest explanation is the most likely, and your failure to heed it is troubling for me as a client of color. There's countless threads here about racial preferences and discrimination in the industry, so as a client I have a strong preference for dealing with agencies and ladies that want my business and don't present a risk to me having a great experience (While always appreciated, I don't see SPs for the political discussion).

I don't want to make this a back and forth thing, because you're absolutely entitled to your opinion and you could be 100% correct. But in the absence of greater evidence than your implausible and easily refuted additional theories I don't feel the need to take that chance. I don't say this to demean your agency or the ladies you represent, but there are simply too many great providers and agencies for me to wanna take the chance that your comments are indicative of a discriminatory or biased attitude that could lend itself to me having a bad experience.

 

[whynot888]

Been there a few times and i can honestly say i feel sorry for the waiter and waitresses that work there. Because all the times ive been there i always see customer beig rude to them and laugh at their english, they are the actual victims

 

[Smallcock]

I've observed a similar incident of blatant racism in a Chinese restaurant in Markham several years ago - food was served that was clearly inedible. It wasn't 12am and the patron(s) weren't thugs. The individuals didn't complain to the Human Rights Tribunal but they should have. For every incident that is reported, there are probably dozens that are not.

 

[drew50]

Wow, just love how you try to twist my words. I never said they looked like a problem because they are black. So no, I don't mean that. I just said they looked like a problem and just happened to be black. Potential problems could be any of the following... They looked wasted, They looked like they didn't have money, They looked gangsta or thuged out, They had a bad attitude or did or say something that made the server believe they were gonna rip them off.

You have obviously have never been to this restaurant on a night after the clubs end or you would have understood my statement. Have you even been to this restaurant?




No offense, but with a statement like that, I seriously question your intelligence.



Thanks

Nicole King.

Wow! You are justifying the restaurant's behaviour by citing mitigating reasons that are purely speculative.
If these were indeed factual, the restaurant would have proffered them and received a judgement in their (restaurant's) favour.

And then you deem to question the intelligence of posters who engage you.
I'm not posting to change minds; it's clear you made yours up a long time ago.....based on your personal interactions there, rather than the facts.

I have never used your agency in the past; a matter of serendipity. However, going forward I'll endeavour to steer clear; not a serendipitous choice.

 

[TeeJay]

Auto insurance is not civilized in Ontario.

People paying different rates just based on where they live from what I heard.

Don't expect the insurance companies to the tell the truth. Neither the gay premier and her stretch goals.

izza:

People pay different premiums based on gender, age, and marital status already
For some reason that type of discrimination is a-ok

 

[CH812]

Wow, just love how you try to twist my words. I never said they looked like a problem because they are black. So no, I don't mean that. I just said they looked like a problem and just happened to be black. Potential problems could be any of the following... They looked wasted, They looked like they didn't have money, They looked gangsta or thuged out, They had a bad attitude or did or say something that made the server believe they were gonna rip them off.

You have obviously have never been to this restaurant on a night after the clubs end or you would have understood my statement. Have you even been to this restaurant?




No offense, but with a statement like that, I seriously question your intelligence.



Thanks

Nicole King.

So much crap there in your response but ill keep it simple enough for you to understand and hopefully for you to see the error in your ways....

First lets go back to your point of customers who could be "potential problems" it is impossible for anyone to make that judgement call based on someones appearance. I dont care if they have their pants hanging low, gold teeth, hoodies and baseballs caps or whatever you consider "gangsta" or "thugged out" that gives the establishment no right to treat them different from any other customer and this is the concept you don't seem to understand.

Second, like I said if someone is causing any problems in the restaurant, plain and simple you kick them out. No food service business has the right to decide who could be a problem customer and to impose different protocols on how to treat them just based on how they look.

So the solution is the restaurant should make everyone prepay for their meals not just who they suspect will walk out on their bills, its very simple.


Now Nicole looks like you have pissed off alot of people with your ignorant comments and seem to be losing possible clientele so you should probably end this now and avoid embarrassing yourself further and losing more business with your discriminatory views.

 

[Smallcock]

People pay different premiums based on gender, age, and marital status already
For some reason that type of discrimination is a-ok

That discrimination is based on statistical multi-variate analysis rather than a judgement made by an individual. Insurance is also a very different type of service than the food business. Lenders in the mortgage industry also discriminate based on credit history. I don't see much overlap. Every business has its own unique goals and challenges.

The type of discrimination you want to allow again was the status quo for centuries and it was pretty fugly. Do you really think it can be done better now?

 

[TeeJay]

So much crap there in your response but ill keep it simple enough for you to understand and hopefully for you to see the error in your ways....

First lets go back to your point of customers who could be "potential problems" it is impossible for anyone to make that judgement call based on someones appearance. I dont care if they have their pants hanging low, gold teeth, hoodies and baseballs caps or whatever you consider "gangsta" or "thugged out" that gives the establishment no right to treat them different from any other customer and this is the concept you don't seem to understand.

Always makes me laugh people trying to sound smart
Actually discriminating against someone's apparent social status based on the variables you have listed (pants, gold teeth, style of dress etc) is 100% legal
The issue at hand (which you appear to have missed) is they can not discriminate on colour of someone's skin

Second, like I said if someone is causing any problems in the restaurant, plain and simple you kick them out. No food service business has the right to decide who could be a problem customer and to impose different protocols on how to treat them just based on how they look.

They certainly do have the right to refuse service on any number of reasons, including dress code (I assume you have never visited a bar/club?)

That discrimination is based on statistical multi-variate analysis rather than a judgement made by an individual. Insurance is also a very different type of service than the food business. Lenders in the mortgage industry also discriminate based on credit history. I don't see much overlap. Every business has its own unique goals and challenges.

The type of discrimination you want to allow again was the status quo for centuries and it was pretty fugly. Do you really think it can be done better now?

Oh cmon we have more than enough stats that show blacks are more likely to be involved in crime, more likely to get stopped by police, more likely to get convicted, more likely to get harsher sentences
Tons of stats to back up if you want the door to open that way

 

[Occasionally]

Always makes me laugh people trying to sound smart
Actually discriminating against someone's apparent social status based on the variables you have listed (pants, gold teeth, style of dress etc) is 100% legal
The issue at hand (which you appear to have missed) is they can not discriminate on colour of someone's skin


They certainly do have the right to refuse service on any number of reasons, including dress code (I assume you have never visited a bar/club?)





Oh cmon we have more than enough stats that show blacks are more likely to be involved in crime, more likely to get stopped by police, more likely to get convicted, more likely to get harsher sentences
Tons of stats to back up if you want the door to open that way

Good point.

Car insurance rates based on statistics is just as bad as someone making judgement on someone based on statistics.

Actually, insurance is much worse because everyone gets affected and hurts our wallets. You can't get around it, unless you risk it and drive hoping you never get pulled over or get into an accident. It's done to millions of people automatically monthly. Someone getting burned at a store doesn't lose anything. They can go to another store.

Yet government seems to have no problem with insurance companies charging higher rates discriminatorily (is that a word?) to: young people, men, race and people who live in high risk areas.

Now if the government really want to crack down, EVERYONE should get the same starting rate based on the car you drive, and then it changes based on if you get into accidents and do claims. However, a man and woman driving the same car, living in the same home, zero accidents each and with the same driving experience will have the guy pay more.

Never the less, the reason why this restaurant issue got brought up is because it's a public setting. Something like car insurance is a hidden transaction of paperwork and emails. There is no waitress stonewalling someone face to face.

Oh, and here's another discriminatory practice the government does't seem to care about.... pricing as per age.

Stores can sell things to students, seniors and handicap people for lower prices or even free. Yet everyone else pays regular price. Does public transportation still have tiered pricing?

The "assumption" is that students, seniors and handicap people are broke and need a hand. Says who? I'm sure there's lots of struggling 40 year olds, while there's lots of students with parents with dough, and millionaire seniors who collectively don't need a deal.

My parents started off broke, but as the youngest sibling, my parents were fine when I grew up. I had tons of hand out money for the bus, subway, arcade games, chocolate bars at Beckers etc..... Yet I scored student pricing. I didn't need the discount.

 

[oil&gas]

Oh cmon we have more than enough stats that show blacks are more likely to be involved in crime, more likely to get stopped by police, more likely to get convicted, more likely to get harsher sentences
Tons of stats to back up if you want the door to open that way

I don't really have a position on the truthfulness of the
stats on the blacks. I just want to say I would find the
impact of such racial profiling to be way more devastating
and undignified than being asked to prepay by some lousy
eatery if I were black. If the guy who got his prepaid money back and left deserves a
compensation of $10k then the Toronto Police should
be ordered to pay the black community millions. But
I bet the bullies of the Human Rights Tribunal would
rather take on some undereducated businessman from
Chinatown who most likely could only speak passable
English than the Toronto Chief of Police.

 

[Occasionally]

I don't really have a position on the truthfulness of the
stats on the blacks. I just want to say I would find the
impact of such racial profiling to be way more devastating
and undignified than being asked to prepay by some lousy
eatery if I were black. If the guy who got his prepaid money back and left deserves a
compensation of $10k then the Toronto Police should
be ordered to pay the black community millions. But
I bet the bullies of the Human Rights Tribunal would
rather take on some undereducated businessman from
Chinatown who most likely could only speak passable
English than the Toronto Chief of Police.

That's the government for you.

Cities do pay victims of police brutality, but it's got to be something serious. And when it happens, you only hear about it from popular cases in the US where someone got unjustly treated and received millions of dollars of compensation. And it's not like the government openly tells the world they messed up and paid up.

People only hear about it when the case is resolved and the victim and their lawyer tells their story.

No different policing in general. A cop can totally fuck up...... good luck trying to get them or the police chief to openly admit wrongdoing. It's like pulling teeth. The authority force who is supposed to protect rights, uphold the law, and openly condemn wrongdoers with photos, accusations, arrest, name, age, address. etc...... takes about 100x more effort to accuse one of their own.... instead it's.... "Well, can't jump to conclusions folks. Just because Policeman John Smith shot a Black guy in the back of the head, he's still a good cop and deserves a pat on the back for a job well done"

Or even worse......

"We are withholding the name of the policeman involved"

So when it comes to the general public doing something shady, cops will blanket the media with personal information who the ass is. But when it's a cop, it's some reason confidential.

 

[SlickRickBBD]

I’ve had the EXACT same thing happen to me and my friends (all whom were black) at a very popular restaurant in Mississauga. This was about 9 years ago. I have heard management has changed since, but I was so turned off by the situation I’ve never gone back and probably never will.

 

[Smallcock]

Oh cmon we have more than enough stats that show blacks are more likely to be involved in crime, more likely to get stopped by police, more likely to get convicted, more likely to get harsher sentences
Tons of stats to back up if you want the door to open that way

Stats do show that Blacks [generally young males] are more likely to be involved in violent crime, and that the victims of said crimes are typically other Blacks.

Much of what you wrote could be said about men versus women. Men are more likely to be involved in violent crimes than women but I think it would be idiotic for restaurants to demand that male patrons pay upfront but females should not. That's a solution in search of a problem. Again, it's not like we haven't been down that track already.

Also, your examples are that of individuals opting to pay for privileges such as driving or home ownership, rather than rights.

Back to crime.. this time non-violent crime... who do you think commits more insurance fraud - Blacks or Whites?

 

[hamermill]

I bet you that is the first time those boys wore a suit and weren’t walking around with their underwear hanging out

 

[Jasmine Raine]

I am sorry but this was a "eating while black" moment 1000%.

Chinese are known for the racist views against any non-Asian.

No other groups where asked to pre-pay. These men took their money back and left. They did the right thing. They fought it in court like they should have.

I don't care how good the food is at this place. These people are racist fucks and I hope their lose their business. Sadly it won't happen. Just look at all the people here who are supporting this place.

There is nothing wrong with implementing a pay first policy. Even after a certain hour to help with the late night issues.

That is not what they did. They discriminated against people of colour and prayed they would not make a fuss. Thankfully this is Canada and these gentlemen had avenues available to them to the matter further. Good on these men for doing so.

We need more POC to stand up in this fashion. We need more white pepper supprtingen like these.

 

[frankcastle]

I don't really have a position on the truthfulness of the
stats on the blacks. I just want to say I would find the
impact of such racial profiling to be way more devastating
and undignified than being asked to prepay by some lousy
eatery if I were black. If the guy who got his prepaid money back and left deserves a
compensation of $10k then the Toronto Police should
be ordered to pay the black community millions. But
I bet the bullies of the Human Rights Tribunal would
rather take on some undereducated businessman from
Chinatown who most likely could only speak passable
English than the Toronto Chief of Police.

That is a stereotype of a chinatown owner. Many of those restaurants have been in business for literally decades. Which is a huge feat as the average lifespan of s restaursnt is typicall far shorter.

You dont stay in business that long by luck.

Also a number of these businesses are now run by the children.

I know of at least one restaurant where the original owner was a chef in china and noe his kids run it. Funny enough his specialty was european cuisine.

So i disagree with the idea that the owner is an uneducated person who cant speak english.