bluffing at no limit holdem
- Thread starter booboobear
- Start date
I don't know what jockee and ranger are fighting about, so I am glad booboo, the original poster, has come back again.booboobear said:
As I mentioned earlier, a lot of TV poker is misleading, because it is so heavily edited, and you don't see how the players played their hands prior to making their bluff. If a guy has a real tight table image, he probably can pull off a bluff. Similarly, you'll see some guys get paid off on their big hands and you're thinking at home that there is no way you would have called that bet but they didn't show you the same guy bluff earlier or play junk.
Of course, you never know for sure what your opponent may be holding, but there are clues. That's why it is important to pay attention, even if you are not in a hand. Most players bet and act a certain way when they are strong vs. when they are weak. I also believe most bets are rational, and if you can figure out what the bet means, it gives you some insight into what he might be holding. But this is all very theoretical, because as I admitted earlier, I know just enough about this game to get myself into trouble sometimes.
To be any good at this game, you have to be able to win the occasional pot without having the best cards, but don't assume that stone cold bluffs happen as often as you would believe by watching poker on TV.
I gotta tell ya, guys this has been an eye opener for me. Never been much of a card player but always stayed a away from the "friendly" games at work. In my earlier post I spoke about a friend who had this "system" and on face value I just believed him.
There's a good reason why I've never been a card player. This fool and his money would soon be parted!
Interesting thread, thanks
M2
There's a good reason why I've never been a card player. This fool and his money would soon be parted!
Interesting thread, thanks
M2
I don't call myself a Pro or even Semi ... would prefer the title of "recreational" myself as many other players do.
I have been to a few tourneys, the last one being Mansion House back in the summer. Lots of UK, US, CDA and European players showed up as the satelites were pratically given away ... it was the worst mob scene I have ever witnessed but I loved every minute of it.
The real fun for most happens at the impromptu games set up for those that are eliminated and have the cash to blow. Some serious coin can be made in the after hours. CAUTION: Some private games/tables involve collusion, that is two or more players working together with/out the dealer involved, whose only concern is separating you from your $$$.
Also the sponsors sometimes set up learning sessions with the pros that are helpful but always overcrowded. Some very well known names from the TV shows are available to answer questions and promote the advertisers.
Las Vegas and Atlantic City tourneys are Mad Houses ... I found that tourneys in the lesser known states (eg. Minnesota) with Indian Gambling reserves at least give you the chance to play ... and enjoy yourself as well.
VBB
I have been to a few tourneys, the last one being Mansion House back in the summer. Lots of UK, US, CDA and European players showed up as the satelites were pratically given away ... it was the worst mob scene I have ever witnessed but I loved every minute of it.
The real fun for most happens at the impromptu games set up for those that are eliminated and have the cash to blow. Some serious coin can be made in the after hours. CAUTION: Some private games/tables involve collusion, that is two or more players working together with/out the dealer involved, whose only concern is separating you from your $$$.
Also the sponsors sometimes set up learning sessions with the pros that are helpful but always overcrowded. Some very well known names from the TV shows are available to answer questions and promote the advertisers.
Las Vegas and Atlantic City tourneys are Mad Houses ... I found that tourneys in the lesser known states (eg. Minnesota) with Indian Gambling reserves at least give you the chance to play ... and enjoy yourself as well.
VBB
Bluffing at any time is good.
But at the right time and smartly....
Position and cards are important....But also have a feeel for what you expect others will do.
BOTTOM LINE....IF YOU BET....BLUFF....RAISE.......KNOW WHAT OTHERS MAY/MIGHT/WILL DO........IF YOU THINK THEY WILL RE-RAISE...THEN ASK YOURSELF...WILL I CALL A RE-RAISE.
IF YOU EXPECT THAT..BUT YOUR HAND IS SHIT- FOLD AWAY..DON'T EVEN BET OR BLUFF IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE FIRE OF A RE-RAISE
AND THE ONE TIME NOT TO BLUFF.............................IS WHEN I AM AT THE TABLE......I'LL EAT YOUR BLUFF FOR BREAKFAST AND SMILE AS YOUR CHIPS SLIDE MY WAY AND YOUR SORRY ASS WALKS OUT THE DOOR
But at the right time and smartly....
Position and cards are important....But also have a feeel for what you expect others will do.
BOTTOM LINE....IF YOU BET....BLUFF....RAISE.......KNOW WHAT OTHERS MAY/MIGHT/WILL DO........IF YOU THINK THEY WILL RE-RAISE...THEN ASK YOURSELF...WILL I CALL A RE-RAISE.
IF YOU EXPECT THAT..BUT YOUR HAND IS SHIT- FOLD AWAY..DON'T EVEN BET OR BLUFF IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE FIRE OF A RE-RAISE
AND THE ONE TIME NOT TO BLUFF.............................IS WHEN I AM AT THE TABLE......I'LL EAT YOUR BLUFF FOR BREAKFAST AND SMILE AS YOUR CHIPS SLIDE MY WAY AND YOUR SORRY ASS WALKS OUT THE DOOR
I think a JOCKEE AND RANGER ARE BLUFFING . I am just trying to learn , the truth I think is that it definitely not a science and even the best pros get fooled by bluffs . I know I have a lot to learn , right now I am trying to curb my tendency to bet with nothing , sure doesn't work in limit games , sometimes I don't have the patience to wait for a goood hand.homonger said:
I think it is good that you are trying to learn the game, although I think this is kind of an odd place to do that. That said, I have always found that there is someone here to knows the answer to your question, no matter what it is.booboobear said:
One of the cliches about poker is that good players can get bluffed, because they are more likely to be thinking about what you might possibly have. Bad players see nothing but their own cards, and won't even think about what it is you are representing. IMO, there is no shame in getting bluffed out of a pot, as long as you can do it yourself to the other guy on occasion.
Hold 'em can definitely be a boring game, and as I have mentioned before, it is frequently described as 57 minutes of boredom, followed by 3 minutes of terror. It is most definitely a game that rewards patience, and remember, it is not the number of pots you play and win, it is how many chips you win overall.
Have you ever considered playing tournaments? If you like action, you might find tournaments more your speed. I think bluffing works a little better in tournaments because unlike a cash game, once you are out of chips you are out of the game, so usually guys are less likely to want to risk a lot of chips if you make a big bluff. The original play you asked about, making a big raise in late position, makes more sense in a tournament, especially when the blinds have gone up.
homonger said:
Good comments , yes terb does seem to have experts or people who think they are on every subject .. good old terb. ACtually I am trying to learn by playing as most people say thats the real way to learn I also read notes . I would consider tournaments but it's to early for me I just started at limit games I think I will move up to a no limit this weekend .
Still lots to learn and like I said I need to control my tendency to bet with shitty hands just to be part of the action. I UNDERSTAND NO LIMIT IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT and again DIFFERENT AGAIN DEPENDING ON THE SIZE OF THE BLINDS. From my limited experience in limit too many guys bet with small hands because the stakes are low, something similar to me.
One of the things I notice about low limit NLHE cash games is that pre-flop raises mean almost nothing, unless it is a really big raise. I see guys routinely calling 3x or 4x raises in a $1/2 game, because it is only $6 and $8 respectively. And of course, once one guy calls your raise, it becomes more and more attractive from a pot odds standpoint for other guys to call too. These guys are looking to play the odds, flop big and win a big pot. If they flop any kind of draw, a lot of these guys will stay with you, because of the implied odds.booboobear said:
In general, I think that if you bet enough to deny your opponents the proper odds to chase their draws, then you shouldn't care if they want to chase you. You will win money more often than not in that scenario. But I have learned the hard way that once in a while you will get chased down in that situation, and will lose a big pot.
This points to one of the pitfalls in "reading" opponents. When playing at a low stake table, many of the players will not care to calculate the odds, and therefore may behave as if they have a good hand when they don't. And if 6 players are chasing, one of them are likely to get lucky. Allthough in the long run, you may have an advantage against mad chasers, if there are enough of them, it can hard to see hand after hand being lost to impossible odds.homonger said:
