Brass Rail shooting update

[S.C. Joe]

Hmm, I know for a fact a public bar or club in the USA is not like a private club. They can not refuse a customer based on race, sex.

As for those Two other bar staffers said they heard Zekarias urge Paredes to use variously his "gat,'' "piece'' or "rod.'' Well where they drinking that night? Isn't the music very loud? Maybe they hear the music and not Zekarias.

As for how the club employees acted, that needs to come out in order for the guys to get a "fair sentence" if found guilty.


Recall just a few weeks ago. A Toronto Police officer was found not guilty for pointing a gun and threatening a dancer in another strip club. The judge explain that since the club was dark and the music was loud plus the fact the people who said they seen and hear the officer were drinking, he could not be sure it happen. So the cop walked and is a free man today.

 

[Aardvark154]

Hmm, I know for a fact a public bar or club in the USA is not like a private club. They can not refuse a customer based on race, sex.

Yes, but. As I already wrote to prove that they were refusing you based on race or sex - you will have to prove that members of one race who were dressed like they were going to a cocktail party hosted by the Lieutenant Governor were routinely denied entry while members of another race dressed like gang-bangers were let in. Not that members of one race dressed like gang-bangers were denied entry or asked to leave.

I still believe that this has very little to do with this particular case.

 

[slowandeasy]

Fair Sentence in Murder Cases

Hmm, I know for a fact a public bar or club in the USA is not like a private club. They can not refuse a customer based on race, sex.


As for how the club employees acted, that needs to come out in order for the guys to get a "fair sentence" if found guilty.

While these are good points, it should not have a bearing on the trial. A "fair sentence" for the man who pulled the trigger would be the same as the victim. A "fair sentence" for the man who conspired in murder would be 1/2 the sentence that the victim got.

S.C. Joe, you might mean well, or you just might be a lawyer. However, we need to stop all the bullshit with criminals.

Growing up, I was taught that the only way you should resort to violence is if you are threatened with violence. I was also taught that if you had to resort in violence, there was a limit. If you were cornered and threatened with death, that was the only way you should respond with lethal force.

I believe that is how the law should interpret it. We have too many young men running around our city with egos and feelings of entitlement just waiting to blow up. Thank god, most of them manage to channel it to something good. However, many of them need a good bitch slapping.

In this case... the family of the young man who urged the other to shoot, have come to his defence. While I commend them on doing this, I also am outraged that they have the audacity to speak so highly of their young relative, given the circumstances!!!!

 

[S.C. Joe]

I meant how the law thinks for a "fair sentence". I am not saying what they should get if found guilty. The law takes many facts about the person and how the crime happen in sentencing. I am not say if its right or wrong just thats why lots of stuff some think is a waste of time the courts do not.

Many would say the shooter should get death and in some states here in the USA he would.

As for how I was raised growing up, I was told you should only use as much force as need to defend yourself and nothing more. But now some states in the USA have this "stand your ground law" where its OK to shoot a guy in the back running away from you if he broke in to your house or assaulted you. I think its BS but its the law in some areas. Not in any place of Canada I believe has a law like that.

The only guy I think has a chance of being found not guilty is the shooters buddy. But we need to wait for the trail and facts to come out and then let a judge or jury decide his outcome. I don't see how the shooter can be found not guilty.

 

[dcbogey]

The problem is that every guy with a gun thinks he's Superman.

Actually - not all of us think that way.

 

[slowpoke]

I don't doubt that the Brass Rail security were complete assholes. Whether that mitigates a murder charge, though, I doubt: People have a right to be complete assholes. It's their private property. You can't go around shooting people just because they are complete assholes.

It's well known that they are assholes though.

I guess it's probably 2nd degree though. They weren't coldly calculating to kill the guy, they flew into a rage. I don't think the law cares whether or not the person you intended to kill is the person you actually killed. I think if you set out to kill someone, and you kill someone else instead, it's the same murder charge.

If it were up to me, being in possession of a concealed handgun in any public place would count as premeditation so he'd wear that 1st degree charge no matter how spontaneous the killing seemed to be.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Does everybody would gets found guilty of 1st degree murder get the same sentence in Toronto? I thought no. Over here in Michigan its life with no chance of getting out ever.

If its not life then the facts how and why and who the shooter is matters for sentencing.

Have to agree-well maybe not -that someone who planed on murdering a person and has a life long history of breaking the law should get more time in jail, than a person who never broke the law and just lost their cool.

 

[fuji]

If it were up to me, being in possession of a concealed handgun in any public place would count as premeditation so he'd wear that 1st degree charge no matter how spontaneous the killing seemed to be.

That's a good point. I don't think it will work that way, but maybe it should.

 

[fuji]

Does everybody would gets found guilty of 1st degree murder get the same sentence in Toronto?

It would be life in either case, 1st or 2nd, I think, the difference is primarily around eligibility for parole -- none for first degree.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Thats the same thing as over here then. I guess Canada is not "soft" on all crime.

 

[Tiffany_69]

It would be life in either case, 1st or 2nd, I think, the difference is primarily around eligibility for parole -- none for first degree.

Yes and no on first degree murder, the Lawyers on board here will tell you LIFE in Canada Runs like this. Life 10 Life 15 and the max 25 yrs. What this means is if you receive life 10 that when you could get parole. Now when you receive a life sentence your on parole FOR LIFE. So if you get the max your out in 25yrs unless they gate you. That takes a whole other hearing . The legal minds here can explain better then I. Now in USA if you get LIFE max your never seeing the street or women again, you will die in prison. Here an offender can do life parole after serving their 25yrs and be right back watching strippers.

I do not want Canada following American system which has 3 levels to our 2. They have county state and federal. We have federal and Provencal jails. They are about warehousing not good for society. But we do need to start looking at the possibility that when you take some ones life and get convicted of first degree murder that is it your done you die in jail. Or better yet on our country economically with the majority of violent crimes being committed by men under 30 here. Bring back the Hang man. I also like the 3 strikes your out system like many states are doing now down there. But we would have to revamped for Canada, not retarded like they have it where guy gets caught on small none violent crimes like growing weed 3 times now he never gets out of jail.


Yes gentlemen there was a time I though of working in corrections did a co-op and afer that said forget it this not my kind of career. So I have seen both Maximum, medium and min security facilities from the inside. Some are a joke others like Millhaven and Edmonton Max to name a few are down right scary places.

One thing I can assure you guys is if these guys are convicted of murder in Ontario they will go to Kingston for reception and processing and right to J unit in the haven. That will be a very rough go since their slight built men and the are in the minority of the prison population there.