Cain's 9-9-9 plan
- Thread starter Brotherman
- Start date
you numbers indicate 100% of income spent on taxable things.They are positive numbers.
Now here we do not tax fresh foods for one.
So you automatically figure the lower income people do not cook or buy milk??
The numbers are correct pappy. That's Mr Cain's proposal. Food and clothing would not be exempt. Let's take a hypothetical family of four. Currently the government has set the poverty level for a family of four at 23,000 a year. Pretty low. They, and anyone below them, would have to pay the same rate of 9% in federal tax and 9% federal sales tax, no matter how little they were making. Let's make our hypothetical family of four a little better off. Let's say their income is $30,000. Barely making it. Currently they wouldn't be paying any federal tax. They are paying all kinds of other taxes. State or state sales tax, payroll tax, gas tax, taxes on goods and services... This would dump another 18% tax on their income. Sound fair to you?Are you positive about your numbers???
Last edited:
This plan would push more of the economy into the underground economy and I don't know how you could accurately predict revenue. Why not start by repealing the Bush tax breaks and take a serious look at controlling medical costs, but as we have seen getting a majority to agree on anything sensible just isn't going to happen. Republicans talk about deregulation as the answer to right the economy as if the financial meltdown never happened.
I still like the ideaThe numbers are correct pappy. That's Mr Cain's proposal. Food and clothing would not be exempt.
levels the playing field.
We know you would. Screw the poor and sick people.I still like the idea
levels the playing field.
You really are a clueless idiot. Go back and read the additions I made in my last post.I still like the idea
levels the playing field.
You failed to add in the State and local sales taxes on top of that.You really are a clueless idiot. Go back and read the additions I made in my last post.
Yes I do think it is fair.
Payroll taxes would be eliminated but you failed to mention that.
I did mention state taxes and state sales taxes. His plan deals with federal. Eliminating the payroll tax would not make up for the 18% jump in taxes on poorer wage earners. Employees share of the payroll tax is currently 7.65%, which means they would still be paying a tax of more than 10% of their income that they are not paying now. It is not fair, pappy. Amazing you can't see that.You failed to add in the State and local sales taxes on top of that.
Yes I do think it is fair.
Payroll taxes would be eliminated but you failed to mention that.
Oh, he can see it allright. he does not want fair. He is looking out for himself, like most americans.I did mention state taxes and state sales taxes. His plan deals with federal. Eliminating the payroll tax would not make up for the 18% jump in taxes on poorer wage earners. Employees share of the payroll tax is currently 7.65%, which means they would still be paying a tax of more than 10% of their income that they are not paying now. It is not fair, pappy. Amazing you can't see that.
Well then one day he may be looking at something else. I don't think we can continue to go down a road where we are creating two societies. Somethings got to give if we do.Oh, he can see it allright. he does not want fair. He is looking out for himself, like most americans.
I think you math wizards are missing a key point.
Currently all tax payers pay a SS payroll tax of 6.2%, their employer also pays 6.2% (12.4% for those counting on their fingers). Medicare withholding is 1.45% for both employee and employer (2.9% in total). So, before any income tax, low income workers pay 15.3% in tax.
OTB
Currently all tax payers pay a SS payroll tax of 6.2%, their employer also pays 6.2% (12.4% for those counting on their fingers). Medicare withholding is 1.45% for both employee and employer (2.9% in total). So, before any income tax, low income workers pay 15.3% in tax.
OTB
Which adds up to 7.65% employee share of tax, as I said. What are you suggesting? That the matching share the employer no longer has to pay in is going to trickle down to the employee? That the employer will say, gosh, we don't have to pay this anymore so we're going to give all of you a 7.65% raise? No. 15.3% doesn't come out of their paycheck OTB, half of it does. You know that.I think you math wizards are missing a key point.
Currently all tax payers pay a SS payroll tax of 6.2%, their employer also pays 6.2% (12.4% for those counting on their fingers). Medicare withholding is 1.45% for both employee and employer (2.9% in total). So, before any income tax, low income workers pay 15.3% in tax.
OTB
Yes, I'm saying the employee will end up with all 15.3%Which adds up to 7.65% employee share of tax, as I said. What are you suggesting? That the matching share the employer no longer has to pay in is going to trickle down to the employee? That the employer will say, gosh, we don't have to pay this anymore so we're going to give all of you a 7.65% raise? No. 15.3% doesn't come out of their paycheck OTB, half of it does. You know that.
OTB
And your reasoning for thinking that is based on what?Yes, I'm saying the employee will end up with all 15.3%
OTB
Based on what? The employee isn't paying in 15.3%. They are payng in half of that. Under Cain's plan that all goes away. Explain to me how employees will end up with all 15.3% of something that doesn't exist anymore.Yes, I'm saying the employee will end up with all 15.3%
OTB
Americans make me laugh. They all think that there is some magical tax system out there in which they will pay less, and the books will be balanced. That somehow, the other guy is getting a free ride. All they have to do is implement some whacky new tax system and THEY will pay less and everyone else will pay more. That they are the ones getting fucked over. That right now, there is some guy who is getting off free and HE should be paying more, not me.
Papasmerf and to a lesser extent OTB typify this kind of American.
Well, I've got a bridge for sale over the Don Valley I'd like to show you and right after that - a pink unicorn or two.
Truth - you don't pay enough taxes right now for the gov't programs you already have in place. You both need to think about cutting spending and paying more taxes in order to balance the books. Until then you're all just dreaming in technicolour. But don't let hard mother fucking facts get in your way.
Papasmerf and to a lesser extent OTB typify this kind of American.
Well, I've got a bridge for sale over the Don Valley I'd like to show you and right after that - a pink unicorn or two.
Truth - you don't pay enough taxes right now for the gov't programs you already have in place. You both need to think about cutting spending and paying more taxes in order to balance the books. Until then you're all just dreaming in technicolour. But don't let hard mother fucking facts get in your way.
And your reasoning for thinking that is based on what?
My reasoning is that if this change were made it would be very clear to everyone the tradeoff, less income tax, much higher sales tax, employees would demand that extra pay to compensate them for the sales tax they would need to pay. Employers would see no difference paying SSN and FICA vs paying the employee. From the employers perspective it's cost neutral to give those employees a raise.Based on what? The employee isn't paying in 15.3%. They are payng in half of that. Under Cain's plan that all goes away. Explain to me how employees will end up with all 15.3% of something that doesn't exist anymore.
I would even support raising the minimum wage by that amount to make sure that money made it to the most vulnerable employees.
OTB
That's exactly what the POTUS is suggesting, not a shared sacrifice but more of an investment from those who already pay most of the taxes so a majority of Americas can receive their benefits without the burden of funding their government. The weak minded, math challenged have been tricked into thinking the rich are not paying their fair share when in reality the rich are doing all the paying.....Americans make me laugh. They all think that there is some magical tax system out there in which they will pay less, and the books will be balanced. That somehow, the other guy is getting a free ride. All they have to do is implement some whacky new tax system and THEY will pay less and everyone else will pay more. That they are the ones getting fucked over. That right now, there is some guy who is getting off free and HE should be paying more, not me.
Papasmerf and to a lesser extent OTB typify this kind of American.
Well, I've got a bridge for sale over the Don Valley I'd like to show you and right after that - a pink unicorn or two.
Truth - you don't pay enough taxes right now for the gov't programs you already have in place. You both need to think about cutting spending and paying more taxes in order to balance the books. Until then you're all just dreaming in technicolour. But don't let hard mother fucking facts get in your way.
OTB
