caledonia thread gone

danmand

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bkow1231 said:
instead of your sympathy why dont you write them a check.
You know full well that money is not the solution to the problem, and in any event, Woolf has not caused the problem in the first place.

I think that almost anybody will have sympathy with the individual landowners and residents that are affected by these land claim problems. But we would not be in this situation if not many generations of aboriginals had been mis-treated and cheated, even if sometimes by well meaning administrators.

What is astonishing and shameful, is that the poor treatment of aboriginal people of Canada is continuing, acording to international organizations and now the ombudsmand for the correctional system.
 

lenharper

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I would say that after reading the mowhawk news and the calodonia wake up site that both combatants are somewhat looney, shorts sighted and pursing equally racist agendas.
 

LancsLad

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danmand said:
You know full well that money is not the solution to the problem, and in any event, Woolf has not caused the problem in the first place.

I think that almost anybody will have sympathy with the individual landowners and residents that are affected by these land claim problems. But we would not be in this situation if not many generations of aboriginals had been mis-treated and cheated, even if sometimes by well meaning administrators.

What is astonishing and shameful, is that the poor treatment of aboriginal people of Canada is continuing, acording to international organizations and now the ombudsmand for the correctional system.

Lets stop supporting them, I'll be happy because we can save money and they'll be happy because they can then show us just how self sufficient they are. Yeah right.

Either that or transfer them to the Fisheries dept. :D
 
Mar 19, 2006
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I was going to stay away from this thread, but poor judgement got the best of me and here I go........

Do natives in the U.S. get the same kind of tax breaks and free higher education as do natives in Canada?

I find it interesting that any organization would consider this type of treatment bad. The fact is, a native citizen has a leg up that most Canadians don't have. If they choose to spend their time burning tires in Caledonia rather than attending classes at Mac, they are to blame for their own problems.

I agree with LancsLad, we should cut them off from the handouts and let them make it on their own........like the rest of us.
 
Mar 19, 2006
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woolf said:
And you're also willing to return all the land that was given to us in exchange for that "leg up" are you?
The natives should take advantage of their situation and send a couple of the protesters to law school. If they did that, they could turn the tables on the white man and acquire the land legally. Of course it's not as much fun as burning tires and throwing rocks. Unfortunately, it also takes more effort.

The natives will be ok, they have you and danmand in their corner.
 

danmand

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lookingforitallthetime said:
The natives will be ok, they have you and danmand in their corner.
Yeah, as if they were not suffering enough already.:rolleyes:
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
lookingforitallthetime said:
The natives should take advantage of their situation and send a couple of the protesters to law school. If they did that, they could turn the tables on the white man and acquire the land legally. Of course it's not as much fun as burning tires and throwing rocks. Unfortunately, it also takes more effort.

The natives will be ok, they have you and danmand in their corner.
Native land claims have been attempted to be resolved through the courts for hundreds of years, but every step of the way the government has stalled the process putting up legislative and bad faith roadblocks at every turn.

Take the the recent example of the Nisga'a in BC. A court battle lasting over 200 years, finally won in the courts, only to have the BC Liberal government decide that 200 years notice wasn't enough time for everyone to have their say, so they held a quick "referendum" to prevent the land claims from going ahead and once again stealing land from the rightful owners.

It doesn't matter if Aboriginals go to "law school" or not; not while the other side even refuses to play by their own rules. Aboriginals win in the courts, then the white man simply changes their law.
 
Mar 19, 2006
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woolf said:
Native land claims have been attempted to be resolved through the courts for hundreds of years, but every step of the way the government has stalled the process putting up legislative and bad faith roadblocks at every turn.

Take the the recent example of the Nisga'a in BC. A court battle lasting over 200 years, finally won in the courts, only to have the BC Liberal government decide that 200 years notice wasn't enough time for everyone to have their say, so they held a quick "referendum" to prevent the land claims from going ahead and once again stealing land from the rightful owners.

It doesn't matter if Aboriginals go to "law school" or not; not while the other side even refuses to play by their own rules. Aboriginals win in the courts, then the white man simply changes their law.
Yeah, you're right, burning tires sounds more productive
 

bkow1231

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woolf said:
Native land claims have been attempted to be resolved through the courts for hundreds of years, but every step of the way the government has stalled the process putting up legislative and bad faith roadblocks at every turn.

Take the the recent example of the Nisga'a in BC. A court battle lasting over 200 years, finally won in the courts, only to have the BC Liberal government decide that 200 years notice wasn't enough time for everyone to have their say, so they held a quick "referendum" to prevent the land claims from going ahead and once again stealing land from the rightful owners.

It doesn't matter if Aboriginals go to "law school" or not; not while the other side even refuses to play by their own rules. Aboriginals win in the courts, then the white man simply changes their law.
you can not realy believe this can you?they get everything and put back nothing ,they pull thousand of spawning walley(fish) out of the water with nets and sell them for 2 dollars a pound shoot deer all year with high powered rifles while we have to use bows.you are a sucker in what you believe so bend over spread your cheeks hope you enjoy it oh and get out your wallet because this will cost everyone
 

LancsLad

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lookingforitallthetime said:
Haven't you heard? He's the new native negotiator.........they call him "Dances with woolf"

In solidarity with his clients woolf just got a new bride. Her name is " has own tooth"
 

slowandeasy

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woolf said:
Maybe if justice had been applied much much earlier in this dispute this would not have happened at all.

Seems to me the COLOSSAL JOKE is that after over two centuries of denying the Six Nations any form of justice when it came to recognizing their rights to the land in question, that all of a sudden a little bit of "injustice" towards non-natives gets everybody up in arms.

Where were your cries for justice these last two centuries?
Woolf... you make some good points, and the article you referenced provided some very good information. It is obvious that there were many injustices perpetuated against the people of the First Nations by the settlers. Anyone who attempts to deny this is ignorant.

The first problem for the government and many modern day Canadians is that the magnitude of these claims is astronomical. The first claim that they settle will be the snowball that rolls down hill. From what I understand, settling all the claims at even a fraction of what the first nations are asking would bankrupt Canada.

The second problem, is that no government wants to be the one responsible for such an action. The repercussions would be devastating to that party because no matter what they do, they will bet roasted...

The 3rd problem, is that the first nations themselves are looking for too much money as settlement.

4th is that modern day canadians have sympathy, but we do not want to be the ones paying for centuries old problems... Many immigrants who have not gone to school here do not understand some of the rights and protections that were granted to first nations people... Many non-immigrants have just chosen to ignore those facts or slept thru those parts of history class
I could go on, but it serves no purpose...

For me, the issue is quite simple... The govt of Canada, has to take a step to settle all the claims in one shot... then somehow find a way to make those payments. But the first nations are not going to like the price that will be paid...
 

slowandeasy

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lookingforitallthetime said:
Haven't you heard? He's the new native negotiator.........they call him "Dances with woolf"
Making fun of woolfs ethnicity is the kind of thing that these people face on a daily basis..

Whether we like it or not, first nations has some very valid claims...
 
Mar 19, 2006
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slowandeasy said:
Making fun of woolfs ethnicity is the kind of thing that these people face on a daily basis..
You think woolf is native indian? Read his posts again, he's not a native. He considers himself the king of lost causes and protector of poor, down trodden terrorists. He takes this approach because it makes him feel superior to the rest of us and more righteous.

As for the rest of your comment, if you pay for my kids education and wave my taxes, you can call me Kochese.
 

bkow1231

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slowandeasy said:
Making fun of woolfs ethnicity is the kind of thing that these people face on a daily basis..

Whether we like it or not, first nations has some very valid claims...
BULL SHIT
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
Slowandeasy: Thanks for being a reasonable person, and don't worry about the children and their taunts ... I'm not aboriginal, and even if I was, calling me one wouldn't be an insult anyway (except maybe in the mind of a racist.)

As to your points and concerns, while I believe them to be reasonable, I don't think that in actuality they are valid, with the exception of the political one where no politician or government wants to put themselves up as a champion for something that so many people don't understand.

1st, the magnitude of the claims may seem to be astronomical, but in reality, something like that has never prevented similar cases from proceeding. Lots of claims for damages have started out asking for unreasonably large settlements, as everyone knows, when the parties finally decide to address the issue, the "awards" are always lower than the original claims. I don't see anything different happening here.

2nd: I agree, the politicians have something to fear personally, but I really don't give a shit about politicians in this case. If they can't do the right thing then I hope they do get roasted ... they deserve it.

3rd: No, they are claiming large amounts of money, as anyone bring in any kind of case before the courts looking for awards for damages does. They start off asking big to have some negotiation room. This is a normal situation and doesn't "scare" me in the least. The government can go in there offering $1, and negotiate upwards, so eventually either the government and the Aboriginal group will come to a more reasonable compromise, or the people doing the judging will say, $infinity is too much, and $1 is too little, so here is a realistic $figure that makes sense given the damages done to the claimant and the ability of the defendant to pay.

4th: We have also been the ones benefiting from these same "centuries old problems". If my Grandfather illegally stole your rich Grandfathers fortune, thus leaving your family poor an penniless, which meant that instead of you in all likelihood being sent to the best university, you instead had to take a low paying job to help support your family, while I, instead of taking a low paying job, went to the best university because my Grandfather used your Grandfathers money to send me there, and then set me up in a great business where I am now making millions ... wouldn't you think that my family, upon finding out that our good fortunes came from your families stolen fortune, shouldn't at the very least, be made to compensate your family?

I realize I didn't actually steal the money myself, but I did receive stolen goods, and there are lots of precedents in law where receiving stolen goods, even if you are not aware that the goods were stolen, does not entitle you to keep those stolen goods once they are discovered in your possession.

If my father steals a car and gives it to me, it doesn't matter that I didn't know it was stolen. If the owner and the police find out I have the stolen car, it is returned to the original owner ... in the case of Aboriginal land claims, even if it is shown the lands were stolen, we still get a chance to be compensated, or make some other arrangements to lessen our hardship in losing our ill gotten gains ... sounds more than fair to me.


I suggest we go to court, listen to the claims, find out if they have merit. If they don't then we've settled the argument in our favour; If they do have merit, then we accept that we have in our possession stolen goods, and make every attempt to come to a fair arrangement in returning the stolen property.
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
lookingforitallthetime said:
You think woolf is native indian? Read his posts again, he's not a native. He considers himself the king of lost causes and protector of poor, down trodden terrorists. He takes this approach because it makes him feel superior to the rest of us and more righteous.

As for the rest of your comment, if you pay for my kids education and wave my taxes, you can call me Kochese.
This is a political form, I have political opinions that are as valid as anyone else ... expressing my political opinion doesn't make me any more "righteous" or "superior" to anyone, that's what we do here (or should be doing here) on the political forum section of this board.

And even if I were feeling more righteous" or "superior" to "the rest of you", how is that any different or worst than your own righteous" or "superior" attitude towards the people you rail against?

Oh, and weren't you the one who claimed I was just a name caller, and that you were always posting in a reasoned and logical manner?

Care to explain why all your responses to my on topic posts on the subject of this thread have been met by you with name calling and insults?

If you have a problem with my opinion, reasoning, or presentation of facts, then how about sticking to presenting your case for or against any particular point, rather than throwing out personal insults.

If you want to call an opinion of mine stupid, fine, I'm ok with that .. just state that it is stupid, then go on to explain why, using facts, reason, and logic ... I may not change my opinion, but at least I won't have to go cry in a corner because someone on an anonymous chat board called me a name :lol:
 
Mar 19, 2006
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woolf said:
Slowandeasy: Thanks for being a reasonable person, and don't worry about the children and their taunts ...
Congratulations Slowandeasy, you're officially a member of woolfy's weenie squad



woolf said:
If my Grandfather illegally stole your rich Grandfathers fortune, thus leaving your family poor an penniless, which meant that instead of you in all likelihood being sent to the best university, you instead had to take a low paying job to help support your family, while I, instead of taking a low paying job, went to the best university because my Grandfather used your Grandfathers money to send me there, and then set me up in a great business where I am now making millions ... wouldn't you think that my family, upon finding out that our good fortunes came from your families stolen fortune, shouldn't at the very least, be made to compensate your family?
To use your flawed analogy.........your Grandfather was more than willing to pay for Slowandeasy's university education, but he chose not to take advantage of it. He didn't have to take the low paying job......it was easier than all that studying.

Besides, your grandfather didn't steal his family's fortune, it was traded for an easier life with protection and cheap smokes.


woolf said:
I suggest we go to court, listen to the claims, find out if they have merit. If they don't then we've settled the argument in our favour; If they do have merit, then we accept that we have in our possession stolen goods, and make every attempt to come to a fair arrangement in returning the stolen property.
Interesting.........particularly since you said in an earlier post that if the land ownership issue went to court, the white man would only change the laws to suit his needs anyway
 
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danmand

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slowandeasy said:
Making fun of woolfs ethnicity is the kind of thing that these people face on a daily basis..
Making fun of aboriginal people is part of the racist attitude of the white trash.
 
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