Centenary of the Battle of Jutland

[mandrill]

"the narrow waters were too dangerous for major warships"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Channel

That's because there is not enough room to maneuver to escape the Stukas, Heinkels and E-boats. Not because of the Channel itself.

If you are prepared to take the beating to blow up a couple of panzer divisions, you can sail the Channel and hold a position there.

 

[peeler_feeler]

Pause a moment today and remember the Battle of Jutland a century ago today, and those who lost their lives.

So now I know the origin of the street names Jutland Avenue and Jellicoe Avenue in Etobicoke... interesting piece of history - - thanks.

 

[SkyRider]

That's because there is not enough room to maneuver to escape the Stukas, Heinkels and E-boats. Not because of the Channel itself.

The Spanish also found out 350 years earlier that the Channel was "too small" for their Armada.

 

[Promo]

That's because there is not enough room to maneuver to escape the Stukas, Heinkels and E-boats. Not because of the Channel itself.

If you are prepared to take the beating to blow up a couple of panzer divisions, you can sail the Channel and hold a position there.

Exactly. It would take a large ship 4-6 hours to transit the channel. That gave the Germans TONS of time to spot the ships and get their aircraft into the air for multiple attacks before the ships were out of range. Within a month of D-day the allies took many of the coastal French airfields back and the Channel became safer for Allied ships.

Keep in mind small warships (MTBs, E-boats, minesweepers and submarines) regularly operated in the channel, although many were sunk. The most famous was the German Channel Dash where the Battleships Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Cruiser Prinz Eugen and escorts successfully ran the Channel while under constant attack.

The point is, the channel was absolutely wide and deep enough for a battleship to operate including maneuvering to avoid battle damage. It's more of a problem when you have a fleet trying to all maneuver at the same time under attack, but the Germans proved it could be done.

 

[mandrill]

Exactly. The Germans (and British) had TONS of time to spot transiting ships and get their aircraft into the air before the ships were out of range. Within a month of D-day the allies took many of the French airfields back and the Channel became far safer for Allied ships.

Keep in mind small warships regularly operated in the channel. The most famous was the Channel Dash where the Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Prinz Eugen and escorts successful ran the Channel even though they were under constant attack from British aircraft, coastal guns, MTBs, submarines and destroyers. Mines did most of the damage. Although many ships received some damage, the German fleet got through intact, whereas the British lost several small ships, a destroyer was badly damaged and 40+ aircraft.

I've been reading about the Channel Dash lately. The Germans had overcast skies, a huge escort of destroyers and ME-109's and a helluva lot of luck and just plain British incompetence to help them out. And they didn't linger. They ran the Channel at full speed and got out of there!

I don't believe that the Brits put up any effective defence at all. The only real attack was from some Coastal Command Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers and these were slaughtered by the Messers!

 

[Promo]

I've been reading about the Channel Dash lately. The Germans had overcast skies, a huge escort of destroyers and ME-109's and a helluva lot of luck and just plain British incompetence to help them out. And they didn't linger. They ran the Channel at full speed and got out of there!

I don't believe that the Brits put up any effective defence at all. The only real attack was from some Coastal Command Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers and these were slaughtered by the Messers!

I agree. The Germans prepared well including radar and radio jamming, constant air-cover, minesweeping (although most damage was done by mines), they maintained a high speed and their maneuvering was text-book. 2 British aircraft spotted the fleet early, but they were on radio silence and didn't report until they landed much later. The MTB attacks weren't well co-ordinated with each other or with air attacks. Embarrassing engagement for the Brits.

 

[Aardvark154]

That's because there is not enough room to maneuver to escape the Stukas, Heinkels and E-boats. Not because of the Channel itself.

If you are prepared to take the beating to blow up a couple of panzer divisions, you can sail the Channel and hold a position there.

That I believe is the point right there, it was too risky and the Royal Navy wasn't willing (strategically it would have been idiotic) to loose battleships merely to destroy tanks.

 

[Aardvark154]

I would love to take a tour of some of the surviving battleships, but the fact of the matter is that there day is past.

As doubtless you know the U.S.S. New Jersey one of the Iowa Class (the penultimate class of U.S. Battleships) is on the Delaware River in Camden, New Jersey across the River from Philadelphia (and with a water taxi). The U.S.S. Massachusetts (South Dakota Class - the second to last class of U.S. Battleships) is in Fall River, Massachusetts

The photograph above is of the U.S.S. Massachusetts note that you can clearly see the just fired 16 inch shells in the upper left of the photograph (each about as heavy as an automobile).