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Charlie Sheen questions 9/11!!!!!

woolf

East end Hobbiest
Well, as I pointed out before, I am not of the opinion that Bush or the Israelis planned and/or carried out this attack ... although since Bin Laden is a creation of the CIA then the USA is partly responsible.

Now, while I don't think Bush and his gang planned the attack, I am less sceptical of the theory that they were aware that the attack was coming in some level of detail (maybe not the exact date or the specific scope and targets) and purposely took no steps to prevent it from happening so it could become their own "Bay of Tonkin" excuse ... I would even guess that they were not expecting an attack on such a level. They were probably expecting something more along the lines of an "Oklahoma" scale attack; a couple of hundred people killed.

But that's just a theory, not based on hard evidence, but more based on how the Straussian (the belief that average people do not have the capability to make the right decisions to run a country, and that an elite group of people should lead the country, even with lies and deception as the people are not capable of understanding what's best for them) Neo-cons operate and their already existing PNAC (US world dominance, and the putting down of any nation, enemy or friend, that might rise to challenge US supremacy) plans.

You have to be very careful of todays neo-cons, as they are mostly of the deceitful lying Straussian variety these days (including the Canadian neo-cons of the CPC party.)
 

scroll99

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http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10365

It has been confirmed from the editors of Orb Standard that Congressman Curt Weldon sent out an electronic press release through his press office, containing a direct link to the independent film?Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime.

"The original was simply a link with the google address - nothing else. Later he sent out this email stating he was not endorsing it."

- Adam Roufberg - Editor of Orb Standard


Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688
 
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scroll99

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Press Conference of Rep Curt Weldon: 9/11 Commission and Operation "Able Danger"

9/11 Commission suppressed the evidence


September 17, 2005
US House of Representatives

WELDON: Good afternoon.

I'm Curt Weldon, and I'm here to provide a response to the 9/11 Commission in their statements this week about Able Danger and the outrageous statement made by Slade Gorton that it just didn't exist.

And it is absolutely outrageous, especially from a commission that I supported, that spent $15 million with 80 staffers to give the American people and the Congress a full and complete understanding of what happened prior to 9/11.

Read more
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20050917&articleId=965
 

scroll99

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Former director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, who was a senior air force colonel who flew 101 combat missions, and who is a Catholic Archbishop stated that 9/11 was an inside job (he also said "If our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. [T]hat is treason")

Interview Video

http://www.exerscape.com/graphics/bowman-interview.mp3
 

woolf

East end Hobbiest
Possibly, I'm certainly not ruling out complete stupidity on the part of the Bush administration, but let's not forget that they (the leaders in the the Bush admin) are also a bunch of Straussian neo-cons, who believe they are the ruling elite and that the citizens need to be lied to and tricked into doing what is best for the country and the ruling elite.

They also had their PNAC plan all drawn up, just waiting for a "second Peal Harbour".

I'm not saying that allowing a terrorist attack would be smart ... but then again, I think they've clearly proven that "smart" is not their strong suite.

Also, there is a difference between 911 and the other attacks ... for one, this attack was on US soil and committed by Islamists ... supposedly the first time this has happened since we burned down their Whitehouse.
 

papasmerf

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one thing I love abot Charlie is he is at best a fool
 

basketcase

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Wait, does this mean that scroll actually believes that this was a plane that hit the pentagon, just as the Government and mainsteam media say?

Good evidence. There is no way that a missle would have taken out so many lamp poles in a non-linear path. Of course, that means nothing because they will say that the illuminati placed all of them after.
 

scroll99

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Official 9/11 Story Disputed By Experts, Witnesses

Revisiting the issue that helped spur her ouster from Congress three years ago, Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) and co-sponsor Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ) led a Capitol Hill hearing last Friday on whether the Bush administration helped to cover-up or was otherwise involved in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The eight-hour hearing, entitled The 9/11 Commission Report One Year Later: A Citizens' Response * Did They Get It Right?, was timed to mark the first anniversary of the release of the 9/11 Commission's report on the attacks, drew dozens of contrarians and conspiracy theorists who suggest President Bush purposely ignored warnings or may even have had a hand in the attack..

"The commission's report was not a rush to judgment, it was a rush to exoneration," said John Judge, a member of McKinney's staff and a representative of a Web site dedicated to raising questions about the 9/11 Commission's report.

The White House and the commission have dismissed such questions as unfounded conspiracy theories.

McKinney first raised questions about Bush's involvement shortly after the attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, generating a furious response from fellow Democrats in Washington and voters in Georgia, who ousted her in 2002.

"What we are doing is asking the unanswered questions of the 9/11 families," McKinney, a DeKalb County Democrat who won back her seat in 2004, said during the proceedings.

She rebuffed a reporter's repeated attempts to ask her why she would so boldly embrace the same claims that led to her downfall.

"Congresswoman McKinney is viewed as a contrarian," panelist Melvin Goodman, a former CIA official, said. "And I hope someday her views will be considered conventional wisdom."

Though she left the testimony and questioning of panelists to others, McKinney was the main attraction, presiding over more than two dozen participants, including the author of a book that claims the U.S. government had advance knowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack and allowed it to happen, and Peter Dale Scott, who wrote three books on President John F. Kennedy's assassination.

"Nine-eleven could have been prevented," said Marilyn Rosenthal, a University of Michigan professor who lost a son in the attacks, echoing the premise of the hearing.

Panelists maintained that Bush ignored numerous warnings from the CIA, the Federal Aviation Administration, foreign governments and others who told him before 9/11 that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack the United States and that terrorists were likely to use hijacked airliners as weapons.

But why would the president or his administration want the 9/11 attacks to occur? Power, the panelists agreed.

In the wake of the attacks, the administration was able to greatly expand the president's power and the reach of the federal government, they said, but whistle-blowers and other potential witnesses who could have testified to the 9/11 Commission about such things were either prevented from speaking or ignored in the commission's final report. Panelists called the commission's report "a cover-up."

"The American people have been seriously misled," said Goodman.

http://www.lasvegastribune.com/20050729/headline3.html
 

scroll99

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Buildings Should Have Withstood Heat


"The buildings should have easily withstood the thermal stress caused by pools of burning jet fuel," says Kevin Ryan. Ryan who manages the South Bend, Indiana site of Environmental Health Laboratories is an expert in such matters - Environmental Health Laboratories is the division of United Laboratories ('UL') that certified the steel components used in the construction of the WTC buildings.

"In requesting information from both our CEO and our Fire Protection Business Manager last year, I learned that they also did not agree on the essential aspects of the [WTC collapse] story, except for one thing - that the samples we certified met all requirements."

There continue to be a number of "experts" supporting the official story about how the WTC buildings fell. One such person, Dr. Hyman Brown from the WTC construction crew, claims: "What caused the buildings to collapse is the airplane fuel burning at 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit. The steel in that five-floor area melted." Additionally, a major newspaper that quotes him reported: "Just-released preliminary findings from a National Institute of Standards and Technology study of the World Trade Center collapse support Brown's theory."

But Ryan and UL dispute Brown's theory: "The WTC steel components were certified to ASTM E119, meaning the time temperature curves for this standard required the samples to be exposed to temperatures of 2000F for several hours. Even un-fireproofed steel will not melt until reaching red-hot temperatures of nearly 3000F. Why Dr. Brown would imply that 2000F would melt the high-grade steel used in those buildings makes no sense at all," scoffs Ryan.

Former Bush Economist Enters Fray Ryan is far from alone in his doubt. A former chief economist in the Labor Department during President Bush's first term now believes the official story about the collapse of the WTC is "bogus," saying it is more likely that a "controlled demolition" destroyed the Twin Towers and adjacent Building No. 7.

"If demolition destroyed three steel skyscrapers at the World Trade Center on 9/11, then the case for an 'inside job' and a government attack on America would be compelling," said Morgan Reynolds, PhD, a former member of the Bush team who also served as director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis headquartered in Dallas, TX.

Reynolds, now a professor emeritus at Texas A&M University, also believes that bona fide scientific conclusions about the WTC collapse, "may hold the key to the entire mysterious plot behind 9/11."

"It is hard to exaggerate the importance of a scientific debate over the cause(s) of the collapse of the twin towers and building 7," says Reynolds. "If the official wisdom on the collapses is wrong, as I believe it is, then policy based on such erroneous engineering analysis is not likely to be correct either. The government's collapse theory is highly vulnerable on its own terms. Only professional demolition appears to account for the full range of facts associated with the collapse of the three buildings."

"More importantly, momentous political and social consequences would follow if impartial observers concluded that professionals imploded the WTC. Meanwhile, the job of scientists, engineers and impartial researchers everywhere is to get the scientific and engineering analysis of 9/11 right."

"However," Reynolds adds, "getting it right in today's 'security state' remains challenging because he claims explosives and structural experts have been intimidated in their analyses of the 9/11 collapses."

From the beginning, the Bush administration claimed that burning jet fuel caused the collapse of the towers. Although many independent investigators have disagreed, they have been hard pressed to disprove the government theory since most of the evidence was removed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) prior to independent investigation.

Official Story Flaws

Critics claim that the Bush administration has covered-up the evidence and the 9/11 Commission has failed to address the major evidence contradicting the official version of 9/11. Some facts demonstrating the flaws in the government theory include:

-- The attacks proceeded amidst an apparent failure of the American defense system. Subsequently, military leaders were promoted and the president was praised for presiding over a defense system that suspiciously failed the most crucial test in its history - an apparent deliberate unplugging of America's air defenses.

-- Planes that lose contact with control towers are usually intercepted by fighter jets inside of ten minutes, yet on 9/11, the jetliners that struck New York were allowed to proceed unmolested for more than a half-hour, and the plane that supposedly crashed in Pennsylvania was not intercepted for more than an hour and forty minutes after it was widely known that four planes had been hijacked.

-- The hole in the Pentagon was not consistent with the size of a jumbo jet nor with the absence of debris. At the point of impact, a whole bank of windows remained unbroken and there were no marks on the lawn. No credible airplane debris nor remains of passengers were ever found.

-- Photos showing people walking around in the hole in the North Tower where 10,000 gallons of jet fuel supposedly was burning.

-- When the South Tower was hit, most of the North Tower's flames had already vanished, burning for only 16 minutes, making it relatively easy to contain and control without a total collapse.

-- The fire did not grow over time, probably because it quickly ran out of fuel and was suffocating, indicating that without added explosive devices the first could have been easily controlled.

-- Radio communications from FDNY firefighters on the upper floors of the Trade Center towers clearly indicate that fires were under control and the structure was in no danger of collapsing.

-- FDNY fire fighters still remain under a tight government gag order to not discuss the explosions they heard, felt and saw. FAA personnel are also under a similar 9/11 gag order. Even the 9/11 Commission Report acknowledges that "none of the fire chiefs present believed that a total collapse of either tower was possible."

http://www.lasvegastribune.com/20050729/headline3.html
 

scroll99

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-- Fire had never before caused steel-frame buildings to collapse except for the three buildings on 9/11, nor has fire collapsed any steel high rise since 9/11.

-- The fires, especially in the South Tower and WTC-7, were relatively small.

-- WTC-7 was unharmed by an airplane and had only minor fires on the seventh and twelfth floors of this 47-story steel building yet it collapsed in less than 10 seconds.

-- WTC-5 and WTC-6 had raging fires but did not collapse despite much thinner steel beams.

-- It's difficult if not impossible for hydrocarbon fires like those fed by jet fuel (kerosene) to raise the temperature of steel close to melting.

Despite the numerous apparent holes in the government story, the Bush administration has brushed aside or otherwise ignored any and all opposing theories. Mainstream experts, speaking for the administration, offer a theory essentially arguing that an airplane impact initially weakened each structure and an intense fire further weakened structural components, causing buckling failures while allowing the upper floors to pancake onto the floors below in a plummeting domino effect.

Another expert who supports the official account is Thomas Eager, professor of materials engineering and engineering systems at MIT. He argues that the collapse occurred from the extreme heat from the fires, causing the loss of loading-bearing capacity on the structural frame.

Professor Eagar points out that the steel in the towers could have collapsed only if heated to the point where it "lost 80 percent of its strength," or around 1,300 degrees Fahrenheit. Critics claim his theory is flawed since the fires did not appear to be intense and widespread enough to reach such high temperature.

Other experts supporting the official story claim the impact of the airplanes, not the heat, weakened the entire structural system of the towers, but critics contend that the beams on floors 94-98 did not appear severely weakened, much less the entire structural system.

Unaccounted Seismic 'Spikes' Seismographs at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., 21 miles north of the WTC, recorded strange seismic activity on Sept. 11 that has still not yet been explained. While the aircraft crashes caused minimal earth shaking, significant earthquakes with unusual spikes occurred at the beginning of each collapse.

The Palisades seismic data recorded a 2.1 magnitude earthquake during the 10-second collapse of the South Tower and a 2.3 quake during the 8-second collapse of the North Tower.

However, the Palisades seismic record shows that-as the collapses began-a huge seismic "spike" marked the moment the greatest energy went into the ground. The strongest jolts were all registered at the beginning of the collapses, well before the falling debris struck the Earth. These unexplained "spikes" in the seismic data lend credence to the theory that massive explosions at the base of the towers caused the collapses.

"Sharp spikes of short duration," according to Thorne Lay of University of California at Santa Cruz, adding that such spikes had the attributes of underground nuclear explosion(s). "The two unexplained spikes are more than 20 times the amplitude of the other seismic waves associated with the collapses and occurred in the East-West seismic recording as the buildings began to fall."

Experts cannot explain why the seismic waves peaked before the towers actually hit the ground.

Asked about these spikes, seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam, director of Columbia University's Center for Hazards and Risk Research said, "This is an element of current research and discussion. It is still being investigated."

Lerner-Lam points out that a 10-fold increase in wave amplitude indicates a 100-fold increase in energy released. These "short-period surface waves," reflect "the interaction between the ground and the building foundation," according to a report from Columbia Earth Institute.

FEMA Arrived Early

Further complicating the matter, hard evidence to fully substantiate either theory is lacking due to FEMA's quick removal of the structural steel before it could be analyzed. Despite the criminal code requirement that crime scene evidence be kept for forensic analysis, FEMA had it destroyed or shipped overseas before a serious investigation could take place.

Much of the structural steel from the WTC was sold to Alan D. Ratner of Metal Management of Newark, N.J., and the New York-based company Hugo Neu Schnitzer East.

Ratner, who heads the New Jersey branch of the Chicago-based company, sold the WTC steel to overseas companies, reportedly selling more than 50,000 tons of steel to a Shanghai steel company known as Baosteel for $120 per ton. Ratner paid about $70 per ton for the steel.

And even more doubt is cast over why FEMA acted so swiftly since, coincidentally, FEMA officials had arrived the day before the 9/11 attacks to conduct a war game exercise, named "Tripod II."

Notwithstanding FEMA's quick removal of the debris, authorities considered the steel quite valuable, ordering that every debris truck be tracked on GPS and even firing one truck driver who took an unauthorized lunch break.

In a detailed analysis supporting the controlled demolition theory, Reynolds presents a compelling case:

"First, no steel-framed skyscraper, even engulfed in flames hour after hour, had ever collapsed before. Suddenly, three stunning collapses occur within a few city blocks on the same day, two allegedly hit by aircraft, the third not," said Reynolds. "These extraordinary collapses after short-duration minor fires made it all the more important to preserve the evidence, mostly steel girders, to study what had happened.

"On fire intensity, consider this benchmark: A 1991 FEMA report on Philadelphia's Meridian Plaza fire said that the fire was so energetic that 'beams and girders sagged and twisted, but despite this extraordinary exposure, the columns continued to support their loads without obvious damage.' Such an intense fire with consequent sagging and twisting steel beams bears no resemblance to what we observed at the WTC."

After considering both sides of the 9/11 debate and after thoroughly sifting through all the available material, Reynolds concludes the government story regarding all four plane crashes on 9/11 remains "highly suspect."


http://www.lasvegastribune.com/20050729/headline3.html
 

dreamer

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It's difficult if not impossible for hydrocarbon fires like those fed by jet fuel (kerosene) to raise the temperature of steel close to melting
It is interesting that the PM article is "descredited" as a straw man argument, that PM paid attention to the wrong conspiracy theories, and yet here is this one again.

The jet fuel clearly did not melt the steel, but rather it was the catalyst that started the fire that eventually weakened the steel to the point of failure. The fire only had to weaken the steel enough in one area to cause a few floors to fail and thus creating the cascading effect, which is what happened. Using the term "fed" by jet fuel is misleading since the jet fuel burned off very quickly. It started the fire but once completely burned no longer was a cause of anything.

Many experts, and experts in the right fields, have stated that what happened to the WTC buildings is exactly what should have happened under the circumstances. Comparing other buidlings to the WTC towers is like comparing apples to oranges. Philadelphia's Meridian Plaza was no where near the size of the WTC Towers.
 

slowandeasy

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scroll99 said:
Structural Failure vs. Controlled Demolition

Watch both buildings collapsing straight down, directly into the path of most resistance - which is all the floors and all the mass of the building itself."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkk8uE-wB2E&eurl=
Just tuned into this thread... decided to check out the link you provided to see what they had to say.... and.....i...... found..... nothing new..

Someone takes a one dimensional approach to the collapse of the tower and uses that as their scientific bases for debunking the facts... What they have proven in the above video link is that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing....

Essentially, they have taken an incredibly complex scientific problem involving chemical reactions, physics, mathematics and engineering into one simple equation

a = deltav/t

Then they have built their entire proof on that one equation.

Then the conclusion is that it was a controlled implosion at the base of the towers... except that all eyewitness and video evidence does not show any detonation or explosion at the base of the towers.....

I love conspiracy theories, but only ones that are well thought out. Currently, all the 911 theories are relying on bullshit science and the sheer weight of so many people willing to entertain the thought... Like my ex-wife who believed that if she told me the same thing 100 times, that I would start to believe it....
 

scroll99

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I can understand your desperation when on the 5th annn. polls with results like these are published in the main stream media . Are they really shattering your belief . Really, Its a bit dissappointment LOL

Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories suggesting the U.S. government was somehow involved in 9/11? * 67361 responses
Yes. The government has left many questions unanswered about that day.
59%
No. These theories are absurd and disrespectful -- especially to those who lost their lives on 9/11.
35%
I'm not sure.
5.8%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14727720/
 

scroll99

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Hitting a target

the jet executed a 270-degree descending spiral to its east, south, and southwest, losing seven thousand feet before leveling out at nearly tree-top height as it made its final approach from the southwest. WOW


Pilot of flight 77
[Flight Academy] Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot. "I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon," the former employee said. "He could not fly at all." [New York Times]
 
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