China makes its play for Canada
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
There are 3 fundamental rules to not lose credibility in any online argument.
1. Epistemic trespassing: Feigning expertise in something without saying anything of substance. Neither can your expertise be verified, nor do your statements amount to anything substantial.
2. Personal anecdotes: Neither can your anecdotes be verified nor is "if it is true for me, it must be true for everyone" correct.
3. Deflection or evasion: Such as your response here.
You and Wyatt are guilty of one or more of these 3 rules.
Carry on.
This is why you will never understand China. Due to the limited information they let out, i can only post verified links i trust from western sources, links from within the chinese internet on weibo or wechat (until they are removed) or my experience on a personal level. Ive seen no compelling argument from you as to why china is good for canadian interests other than trump bad. This is not an acceptable reason to trust the CCP.
Is what i said untrue about the panama canal? Is what i said untrue about the cultural revolution? Is what i said untrue about chinas role in unleashing covid?
Not sure where you see deflection in all of this. I made a comment about panama. Someone questioned it and insulted my intelligence but i decided to take the high road and i provided examples and my thoughts. You insult me and i provide you with some chinese idioms which i feel describe your intelligence.
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Highly doubt you're a simpleton, fair trade is not as simple as everyone thinks. It's quite complex. Key is the outcome...we're all waiting how this unfolds...
You seem to not understand how a progressive liberal thinks..
TDS is real..
Im actually quite impressed that people here voluntarily brainwash themselves
I have yet to see a counter argument as to why you dont believe panama is severely compromised by the CCP. Crickets as usual when presented wth facts.
I did not insult you.
I described why your arguments cannot be taken seriously.
I have already said why I think Canada should pursue business with China.
Because we should not put all our eggs in one basket as it is an existential threat as we have come to find out.
So we need to diversify and do business with the global south including China.
It isn't without its risks but I believe those risks can be managed.
I dont think I have said anything radical or controversial.
Trust is a very naive word to use in this context.
If whatever you say about China is reason enough to not pursue these business relations, then that does not explain why every country in the world including the US trades with them.
Certainly you aren't the first one to point out these things.
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My arguments are facts that are open source for anyone to do their own DD (try the google - it is good and not that fake Google Dragonfly they tried to make for the Chinese market that the CCP just ripped off and kicked Google out after.) I’m able to provide anecdotes regarding particular aspects about Chinese society along with these facts because I’m native to China. Again, what in my argument about Panama is untrue? Can you dispute all the investments from Chinese state entities into Panama? Can you dispute the fact that 5 months after Panama severed diplomatic ties with Taiwan, it signed up for the BRI?
I agree, diversification can be a good thing. I think Canada should be opening up trade with Latin America, the Pacific, the EU, etc. China is a different story. Given the track record of the CCP within the BRI, its history of economic warfare against the west, and strangling of strategic chokepoints within global supply chains as well as its cooption of world organizations, it is not a trading partner Canada can trust to do business fairly. For examples of failed BRI corruption and scandal, there are several; Peru’s Chancay Multipurpose Port Terminal, the 99 year lease of Sri Lanka’s Hambanota Port, Kenya’s “railway to nowhere”, and the list goes on. You are seeing founding members of the BRICS (Brazil and India) declining BRI projects. You’ve seen the disaster in for the Serbia train station or the Thai State Audit Office most recently. Countries have done business with China in the past because of the promise of the opening up of the 1.4B Chinese market. Meanwhile, they dump overproduced junk into our markets, forcing out domestic competition because it can produced at the lowest cost due to massive government subsidies which is a direction violation of trade laws. And the kicker, hardly anyone got access to their 1.4B market.
You talk about managing risks. How has the Canadian government managed risk when dealing with Chinese money laundering propping up Vancouver and Toronto’s over heated housing market? Or the risk of allowing Chinese state owned companies to buy up Canadian lithium mines furthering their stranglehold on that market. The track record of the Canadian government when it comes to dealing with China is horrendous. Canada has the largest trade imbalance with China and it isn’t even close. So exactly how has Canada fared managing risks against China when we already have such a dependence on their products. A decoupling from China is absolutely necessary. Places we can create more trade deals are places like Vietnam, Mexico, Latin America, the EU.
Again, I will repeat, China is not a fair or balanced trade partner. How is it even allowed that they can self proclaim to be “developing nation” within the WTO to get all the trade benefits that are reserved for the poorest countries in the world. They continue to circumvent every rule possible to their advantage.
But hey, you don’t think my arguments are credible even though you can look up everything I said open source.
You raise concerns about China’s economic behavior, and sure, some are valid.
But it’s disingenuous to call out China as this uniquely malevolent actor while turning a blind eye to the damage Canada has endured under the United States.
If we’re talking about unfair trade, foreign manipulation, and loss of sovereignty, the U.S. is not just guilty. It’s the blueprint.
Let’s start with trade.
The softwood lumber dispute? That’s economic bullying, plain and simple.
The U.S. has been slapping illegal tariffs on our lumber for decades despite international rulings in our favor and we just take it.
Same story with dairy, aluminum, steel, anything they can strong-arm to protect their domestic lobby groups.
At least China pretends to be a competitor. The U.S. acts like it owns us.
We’re in a supposed free trade agreement and still get locked out of infrastructure contracts.
Meanwhile, American firms waltz into Canada, buy up our tech startups, repatriate the IP, and leave us with nothing. That’s not partnership, that’s extraction.
You mentioned Chinese influence on housing markets? Let’s talk about Blackstone, BlackRock, and other U.S. financial parasites buying up Canadian housing stock and turning homes into profit machines.
Vancouver and Toronto aren’t just distorted by Chinese capital, they’re playgrounds for American institutional investors who treat our cities like monopoly boards.
And let’s not forget the U.S. has militarized our border with NORAD and dictates our foreign policy every time we so much as think about doing something independent.
Look what happened when Canada dared to consider Huawei, we got dragged into a Cold War proxy conflict and paid the price.
We’re constantly being told who to trade with, who to ban, who to sanction. Are we a sovereign nation or a client state?
And the political instability?
One presidential election away from chaos.
We’re chained economically and culturally to a country where basic governance is a coin toss depending on which party wins.
We absorb their misinformation, their polarization, their cultural wars and they use that chaos to justify squeezing us harder.
So yes we should diversify.
Yes, China is a complicated and often problematic partner.
But so is the United States.
True risk management isn’t about picking between the “lesser evil”. It’s about building economic resilience, autonomy, and strategic leverage.
That means engaging with a wide range of partners not just ones we’re ideologically comfortable with.
Because the most dangerous relationship isn’t always the one draped in red flags.
Sometimes, it’s the one wearing stars and stripes, pretending to be your friend while quietly bleeding you dry.
There are those who suffer TDS. Then there is a smaller radical group that is fervently anti-American, anti-market capitalism and probably can only tolerate the West on their own terms. Trump doesn't matter to them in the long-run.
However, there are progressives with consistent views that don't arise from either TDS or anti-Americanism. I have no problem with someone telling me the U.S. should have universal healthcare. I might counter that people don't want to give up their private insurance. I have no problem with someone telling me we need to promote green energy and limit new fossil fuel production. It's all in how the message is delivered.
I think some people will be comfortable with Chinese misinformation if it fits into their larger personal and passionately-held narratives.
I remember a few years back Beaver was vehemently arguing that Wuhan COVID cases were clustered around the wet market. It was of no interest to him that the Chinese manipulate every piece of data to support the CCP's objectives. In this context, how difficult would it be to create a fraudulent heatmap of COVID cases. Any Chinese researchers in this chain of misinformation would know their life and their family's lives would be in danger if they countered the official CCP record.
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There is one thing you miss...
You know how much Canada saves on militarization since WW2? And do you know why we have saved Trillions?
You keep crying about Unfair trade...but seem to think Trump has everything to do with it...you go as far as calling him a Nazi blah blah blah...
You might think China isn't an enemy, but they sure are not an ally. LIberals seems to suck it up to China for cheap Iphones and Jordan shoes...
The liberals ate that info up...and Mr. Fauci was suppose to have a statue for it...
And so does the United States to support their own objectives.
Example:
Colin Powell waved a vial of white powder at the UN to justify invasion of Iraq. What we know today to be a lie.
And the numerous others that Trump and his cohort spread on a daily basis.
Misinformation isn't just Chinese territory.
We can argue about magnitude of the global COVID pandemic versus the second Iraq War. Sure, American political leaders lied to us because they wanted to take out a dictator. In this case, some of us didn't champion the war. These leaders were later ostracized by the free press and the American public.
This is in deep contrast to an entire nation under dictatorial censorship.
So to paraphrase Abraham Lincoln:
You can fool some of the people all the time and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but the CCP is trying to fool all the people all the time.
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Sort of the way the US won't talk about measles or butter?
The way they block CDC announcements?
You do realize that there is no actual determined cause for COVID right?
There is a theory that it may have leaked from a lab but we aren't sure.
And COVID was an outlier event anyway.
Sure China blocked access to a lot of data during COVID, but you cannot pick and choose which misinformation and censorship to quibble over, per your convenience.
I hate taking things out of context but oh well...thanks for not calling me a liar
