Club 121

[shiftee]

Why? What about Freedom of Speech? Are the mods going to don their jack boots and S.S. armbands?

Yeah what about freedom of expression?

If these civil liberties are so important why do act like a grumpy troll? Freedom of speech should be treated like a.......freedom and not a curse.

@ STASH: Angst ridden quasi-libertarian stuff certainly makes for for an entertaining read. But if you are willing to drink the libertarian kool-aid be prepared to wake up in a world that looks like Haiti.....everywhere.

Better off buying return airfare and taking 2 weeks vacation to see if you really want / like it before you gulp it down.

 

[STASH]

@ STASH: Angst ridden quasi-libertarian stuff certainly makes for for an entertaining read. But if you are willing to drink the libertarian kool-aid be prepared to wake up in a world that looks like Haiti.....everywhere.

Better off buying return airfare and taking 2 weeks vacation to see if you really want / like it before you gulp it down.

Gee thanks for the advise...................tool.........your the one who mentioned the word Libertarian. Your actually arguing with yourself.....too funny......now pi&& off.:hand:

And what ever it is you like gulping down, keep it to yourself will ya

 

[CUTTERBUCK]

Wow, I’m surprised it took 2 ½ ….. maybe 3 pages for this thread to become a pissing contest.

 

[dj1470]

Why? What about Freedom of Speech? Are the mods going to don their jack boots and S.S. armbands?

No but you can't be overly abusive and language will get you in hot water.

 

[Jimmie_boy]

No but you can't be overly abusive and language will get you in hot water.

Last time I checked that particular limitation wasn't mentioned in either the Charter or subsequent interpretations. Hmmmmmmm

 

[findfun]

Why? What about Freedom of Speech? Are the mods going to don their jack boots and S.S. armbands?

Freedom of speech and the charter are irrelevant in here. This isn't the public square, this a privately owned forum run by mods supported by ads. You are only here by their good graces. You accept some terms every time you click to enter and you accepted some when you registered. They allow you to be here. This is a commercial space.Sure its a community too but that's a by-product of something that someone else has built and allowed you to be here. Free speech is great but it's a red herring in this discussion. The mod's want you to play nice. If you want to be free... I think the logic would say go start your own board. It's like being in my home if I want you to leave because of what you are saying or any other reason, you still gotta leave.

 

[kynorth]

Wow, I’m surprised it took 2 ½ ….. maybe 3 pages for this thread to become a pissing contest.

Cutter it appears you didn't read Page 1 then!

 

[GEMSHINER]

Don't really know why anyone is surprised here.The City has bylaws in place like every other city in Canada ,if I want to open ANY BUSINESS it's up to me to do my due diligence and ensure I am in compliance.Sure there are those that slip through the cracks ,but they are taking that chance and feel it's worth the gamble.A good lawyer or real estate agent will ensure your biz is compliant BEFORE proceeding on any deal.Stash ,I am not a Zehr fan ,but in fairness he didn't put the screws to this club,the media ,property owners and Kitchener Bylaws did.

 

[Belladonna]

Don't really know why anyone is surprised here.The City has bylaws in place like every other city in Canada

This was not a matter of bylaw issues. a private members club cannot be regulated by the city. The only issue with this place was that the tannery building didn't want club 121 "tarnishing" their image, and they were kicked out. Simple as that.

 

[STASH]

This was not a matter of bylaw issues. a private members club cannot be regulated by the city. The only issue with this place was that the tannery building didn't want club 121 "tarnishing" their image, and they were kicked out. Simple as that.

Thank you Belladonna...again. You got the picture. They were closed by some peoples personal preferences before breaking any laws. No one else seems to get that...only a few folks here see that.

 

[shiftee]

This was not a matter of bylaw issues. a private members club cannot be regulated by the city. The only issue with this place was that the tannery building didn't want club 121 "tarnishing" their image, and they were kicked out. Simple as that.

The "we were done in by other people" type of thinking is itself defeatist and really behind the times.

The Club121 ownership didn't do their due dilligence. Their entrance strategy to this market was too flashy and poorly thought out. They were shut down before they could open. All it took was their chosen location and some arguable lease misrepresentation. Throw in negative media attention and city council disapproval and it is over. So much for boasting about supreme court rulings on their former website.

 

[palimpest]

I like the idea of the private gentleman's club, however... at first I thought it the height of naivete and ignorance to try locating the club at the Tannery, but now I believe it was the height of churlishness, because by misrepresenting their "business" and intentions to the landlord, they were clearly indicating that they knew they couldn't get a lease by declaring their real intentions, so even before they applied for the tenancy they knew what they were doing was pretty much a non-starter.

 

[Belladonna]

Yes, I do have to agree that they were in the wrong by misrepresenting on their lease application. With a private members club, it has to be run out of a privately owned property. As well, i keep hearing that it was shut down before it could open. IT WAS open for business. I worked there for a full week before it was shut down. And as for their "flashy" entrance strategy, with the exception of advertising on terb, it was very very low key. It must have been if everyone seems to think that they were never open for business to begin with.

 

[Vash-T-Vay]

They set up in the *Tannery* building? Holy crap. They're totally gonna get shut down now that there's a spotlight on them. No question.

Terb is the spotlight!!! Not one letter typed on this site is not read by the "people" who have a hand in what goes on in this city. And every other city for that matter.
As for them Setting up in the Tannery building? Doesn't matter where they would set up shop.....Are they supposed to say...Ya, ummmm, It's a Bawdy house, where do I sign?
Am I the only one that hasn't figured out some what , of what is happening to this industry in KW?
Seems like there is a "cap" being put on in this city. If Kw is the gold mine between Windsor and Toronto...Why don't you see more agencies... ?
My whole point is....I am not naive to what I read on here or in the papers. Read between the lines. Dont' matter Tannery or the garbage dump..They wouldn't have got to far!!

 

[mrsix]

You might remember a post I had some time ago about this very subject. I actually looked into a private member's club, and the legalities surrounding it. I had investors and counsel. The major sticking point? Leases. Just about every lease contract has an "illegal use" clause, and the landlord is on the hook for any criminal activity that takes place with or without his knowledge. The only option was to buy the building, in which case you have to make sure zoning is correct (another loophole). There are still ways around this, but trying to fudge the lease and open in a high profile building was just plain stupid.

It sounds like these guys rushed into it and hoped for the best. The requirements for a "members only" club are way more stringent than paying a fee at the door.

 

[Vash-T-Vay]

Agreed!

 

[joe_blown]

Terb is the spotlight!!! Not one letter typed on this site is not read by the "people" who have a hand in what goes on in this city. And every other city for that matter.
As for them Setting up in the Tannery building? Doesn't matter where they would set up shop.....Are they supposed to say...Ya, ummmm, It's a Bawdy house, where do I sign?
Am I the only one that hasn't figured out some what , of what is happening to this industry in KW?
Seems like there is a "cap" being put on in this city. If Kw is the gold mine between Windsor and Toronto...Why don't you see more agencies... ?
My whole point is....I am not naive to what I read on here or in the papers. Read between the lines. Dont' matter Tannery or the garbage dump..They wouldn't have got to far!!

Good points Vash-T-Vay!!!

 

[joe_blown]

You might remember a post I had some time ago about this very subject. I actually looked into a private member's club, and the legalities surrounding it. I had investors and counsel. The major sticking point? Leases. Just about every lease contract has an "illegal use" clause, and the landlord is on the hook for any criminal activity that takes place with or without his knowledge. The only option was to buy the building, in which case you have to make sure zoning is correct (another loophole). There are still ways around this, but trying to fudge the lease and open in a high profile building was just plain stupid.

It sounds like these guys rushed into it and hoped for the best. The requirements for a "members only" club are way more stringent than paying a fee at the door.

Even if Club 121 had the option to open, they would have been under the microscope by law enforcement and other groups. I'm not sure if clients want to go there while knowing they are being watched from outside.

 

[Art Mann]

I'm glad to welcome a new entrepreneur on the scene and I'm pleased to offer best wishes for a successful launch. Also happy to go the next step and support an emerging business by booking an appointment.

But the moment I was told the location I pictured my worlds colliding.

End of conversation.

I suspect I'm not the only potential client to feel that way.

 

[TeasePlease]

Since when has it been possible for private clubs to escape the law?

The 2005 SCC decision narrowly interpreted matters relating to bawdy houses and indecent acts. It did not make prostitution legal (or decriminalized). If I form a "private club", it does not mean that I can buy/sell restricted narcotics amongst members, or have cockfights or serve alcohol to minors.

Whoever is giving these opinions to spas (and Club 121 is NOT the only one to have tried it) needs to give their head a shake and dig out their old law school notes.

In the same way, just because you have a "private" club, it does not necessarily allow you to escape municipal code regulations. Sheesh.

If you're going to try to be clever, be smart about it at least.