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Col. Williams to plead guilty to all 86 charges against him.

Rockslinger

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Apr 24, 2005
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That may be true. But if you want an example of a great fighter pilot and a "great human being", just pm me.
During WW II, the Americans repatriated their great fighter pilots back to the U.S. to train others to be great fighter pilots. The Germans and the Japaneses left their great fighter pilots in theatre where almost all of them were killed.
 

dcbogey

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During WW II, the Americans repatriated their great fighter pilots back to the U.S. to train others to be great fighter pilots. The Germans and the Japaneses left their great fighter pilots in theatre where almost all of them were killed.
I'm not talking about an American.....
 

Rockslinger

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Apr 24, 2005
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I'm not talking about an American.....
Unlike their German and Japanese counterparst in WW II, American aces never racked up large kill numbers because they were repatriated back to the U.S. to train new pilots. Some German aces inflated their kill numbers by shooting down lesser Russian pilots early in the Great Patriotic War. German pilots not so tough when faced with the Americans in their P-47 Thunderbolts and P-51 Mustangs. Japanese pilots also ran up some large kill numbers early in WW II until the Americans countered with the P-38.
 

dcbogey

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Unlike their German and Japanese counterparst in WW II, American aces never racked up large kill numbers because they were repatriated back to the U.S. to train new pilots. Some German aces inflated their kill numbers by shooting down lesser Russian pilots early in the Great Patriotic War. German pilots not so tough when faced with the Americans in their P-47 Thunderbolts and P-51 Mustangs. Japanese pilots also ran up some large kill numbers early in WW II until the Americans countered with the P-38.
I guess you didn't comprehend my previous post. not surprising.....
 

Rockslinger

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Apr 24, 2005
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I guess you didn't comprehend my previous post. not surprising.....
Seems to me like you were talking about a great unnamed fighter pilot who wasn't an American.

By the end of WW II American fighters were able to escort American bombers deep into Germany and back. German pilots found it a lot tougher tangling with American fighters than shooting at big slower moving bombers.
 

dcbogey

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Seems to me like you were talking about a great unnamed fighter pilot who wasn't an American.

By the end of WW II American fighters were able to escort American bombers deep into Germany and back. German pilots found it a lot tougher tangling with American fighters than shooting at big slower moving bombers.
Do you find it hard to believe that there were "great" pilots that weren't American? I don't for a minute underestimate the American contribution But you seem to think none of the "great pilots" were Canadian
 

Rockslinger

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Do you find it hard to believe that there were "great" pilots that weren't American? I don't for a minute underestimate the American contribution But you seem to think none of the "great pilots" were Canadian
Was there a Canadian fighter pilot who lost both his legs in action and returned to active duty?
 

dcbogey

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I have no idea. Was there any one that destroyed 4 V-1s in an hour?

Rock - I'm not sure what we're "discussing" here.
 

diehard

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Aug 6, 2006
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Here is a link to the Fifth Estate that shows parts of the interview along with an analysis of the Interviewer - Smyth. Have to admit, the intereviewer played it brilliantly.

Good police work, but also Williams was fucking stupid and very sloppy. I can only believe he figured that he was above suspiciion and would never get caught. Moron wore the same shoes to the Police Interview that he was wearing to kill one of his poor victims.

Brillian Show:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2010-2011/theconfession/
it's like a movie, intense.
 

dcbogey

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So I guess you don't consider a Canadian pilot that destroyed 19 V1 as not important? And if you ask politely, I might even tell you how he did it.
 

diehard

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Aug 6, 2006
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Did he ever feel guilt?

In the confession video it's clear his mind is in turmoil.

Will this man ever have at least one sleepless night, constantly asking himself "What the fuck did I do my Lord", hopefully resulting in an ulcer? :D
 

Sexy_Dave

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Feb 27, 2006
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Can't agree. If as most,, if not all, observers agree he's a sociopath they he has not felt or thought as you suggest.

As per the DSM IV;

Profile of the Sociopath

the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

-------------------------------------------------------------------




He has simply lost control of the situation, not that he won't try to regain it inside, and realizes this is his only chance to regain it, however remote that hope is.
blackrock, I concur with your list here, though I don't see that printed in my DSM so I am assuming you have constructed that on your own. What you have presented and most seem to forget are the specific and necessary qualifiers to be able to make any diagnoses. As per the DSM IV, there is no diagnosis of Sociopath. What is there is Anti-Social Personality Disorder. As such, one must meet certain criteria for diagnosis of Personality Disorder first, and then move to the specific type, and all have specific and necessary requirements.

It is also important to understand that the DSM IV's section on PD's is woefully inadequate and is undergoing a major rewrite for the DSM V.

Anyone on TV or in the media proclaiming this guy was one thing or another are spouting nonsense, and appealing to general publics need for hysterical hype.
 

blackrock13

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Jun 6, 2009
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blackrock, I concur with your list here, though I don't see that printed in my DSM so I am assuming you have constructed that on your own. What you have presented and most seem to forget are the specific and necessary qualifiers to be able to make any diagnoses. As per the DSM IV, there is no diagnosis of Sociopath. What is there is Anti-Social Personality Disorder. As such, one must meet certain criteria for diagnosis of Personality Disorder first, and then move to the specific type, and all have specific and necessary requirements.

It is also important to understand that the DSM IV's section on PD's is woefully inadequate and is undergoing a major rewrite for the DSM V.

Anyone on TV or in the media proclaiming this guy was one thing or another are spouting nonsense, and appealing to general publics need for hysterical hype.
Your points are well taken and your right about it properly being termed ASPD. Anyone professional commenting on his condition/mindset/diagnoses does so with many disclaimers. It tends to be the media that shortens things to fit the 15 second sound bite and dramatic affect.

I always look at references like the DSM as a guideline and not a definitive answer, but it's a good one. A quick look through and one gets the idea that every breathing human has a mental disorder. There are some doozies that make you shake your head. Sociopath and Psychopath often get used incorrectly interchangeably.
 

Sexy_Dave

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Feb 27, 2006
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Your points are well taken and your right about it properly being termed ASPD. Anyone professional commenting on his condition/mindset/diagnoses does so with many disclaimers. It tends to be the media that shortens things to fit the 15 second sound bite and dramatic affect.

I always look at references like the DSM as a guideline and not a definitive answer, but it's a good one. A quick look through and one gets the idea that every breathing human has a mental disorder. There are some doozies that make you shake your head. Sociopath and Psychopath often get used incorrectly interchangeably.


The DSM V is making the change to "Antisocial/Psychopathic", as psychopathy(psychopathic) is considered a sub-type of anti-social personality.

"Every abnormal behaviour is just normal behaviour exaggerated.", so that yes everyone is in there somewhere but not to a pathological level.

The woman designated as a "Profiler" on CBC Newsworld last week made the gleeful proclamation that "oh yes this guy is a psychopath" but from the look in her eyes she was more concerned about her happiness being on national TV rather than on what she was qualified to claim.
 

diehard

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Aug 6, 2006
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What all this exchange of replies regarding fighter pilots going on?

What's the point to be proven?
 
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