Comparative info for all hobbyists

[Shaunhorny]

Excuse me while I rant, but I've read enough of those threads where guys bitch about SPs rates and assume that X amount of money should mean X, Y, and Z services on the SP menu, I need to get it off my chest:

An SP's rates has no direct bearing on the kind of services she chooses to provide. In plain english, there is no direct relationship between rates and menu, and paying more doesn't entitle you to a BBBJ or greek or whatever it is that you feel an SP should provide.

Make all the comparisons you want (imaginary or not, rational or not), but it won't change this basic fact: it's our body, our emotional work, our choice. Period.

If you feel that paying X rates without getting Y is ludicrous, then look somewhere else. It's not as if there's a shortage of women in this industry offering every service imaginable at various price range.

And stop taking SPs rates as a personal insult: because some women make themselve sexually available for pay doesn't mean they are available to anyone who wants to pay, nor that more money increases the availability.

[/rant's over]

Great post. I agree with you.

But I do think that if something is on the menu, it should be provided or should be taken off the menu. I also think it's absurd to expect to pay any kind of money to have somebody "hang out" with you. I'm sure some SPs lead very interesting lives and can tell me great tales about it, but they'll have to do so for free. Let's just say that money only factors in when one is getting other services integrated with the conversation portion. Quite frankly, I've had enough girls talk my ears off in life. I'm not going to pay to have them chew my ears off further.

 

[Cycleguy007]

Gen is a woman of many talents. Did you know that she is also giving me French lessons (no, no Greek)?

From what I hear she gives "greek" lessons as well... Might not be "exactly" what you were thinking though Rock... Right Gen?

 

[Rockslinger]

From I hear she gives "greek" lessons as well... Might not be "exactly" what you were thinking though Rock... Right Gen?

Is it true that the last guy who asked for Greek lessons is still missing? BTW I heard that Gen's vibrator is broken. I wonder if she broke it inside some guy's.............................

 

[The Houdini]

All Shaun is saying is let's not allow SP's to run away with our $$$ without providing good service. That's all....

Some of you people are just too much, especially all those farkers who habitate in the Lounge yapping away at shit.

Sheesh...

 

[Rockslinger]

come to think of it I may do some porn.

Be careful there, all the porn guys have 15" woodies. Can you handle it?

 

[Rockslinger]

Shaun did you say SPs do everything BarebacK?!!!

Think (pray) he meant porn stars.

 

[Shaunhorny]

I think I'll let the real experts on the subject ~ i.e. the Sps ~ speak for themselves. I can't add anything to what they've already said ...

Nonetheless, if I'm going over your head (if it ever comes out of whatever dark place it's hiding in) feel free to put me on ignore

I wouldn't dare ignore you. All I ask is that you pull your head out of the dark place it is hiding: your ass. I won't ask how you're able to fit it in there to begin with.

 

[Shaunhorny]

arent some of the male porn actors somewhat good looking? Oh and tested? I think in porn your paying for some safety right, I mean its done is a studio with people around. I think I may charge more now, I cant prove my clients are std free, I dont know who is showing up or if he will violate me and abuse me or worse murder me. Not to mention the emotional act we do for you. I definately think SPs should make more money not less, come to think of it I may do some porn. ")

Poor child. You see, the SP thing is a two-way street. How does a client know that an SP isn't STD free? Who has a greater chance of having an STD? M middle aged married man with children or an SP that has fucked 1000 men? How does he know she's not going to expose him?

Send me some pics along with your measurements. I'll give you an estimate of your worth as a porn newbie. I think the reality will probably take you off your high horse. Oh, and they'll put you through the grind. Think you can handle 8 - 10 inch cocks, double penetration, hardcore anal, and so on? You don't do anal? sorry, there is no place for you in hardcore porn then. You'll be in more pain than pleasure unless you're a real hardcore loving chick. It's quite a learning curve and it's why most porn girls simply don't last in the business. And.. and.. and... people will be able to see you fucking on film 'til the day you die, and AFTERWARD too! Your children and your parents will be most proud of their little darling.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Shaun did you say SPs do everything BarebacK?!!! WTF! have you ever been to see an SP and if you havent Im starting to think you have a bad attitude and shouldnt be here.

I meant pornstars. I think your attitude sucks ass too. So I guess the feeling is mutual. But I believe in unity. Let's hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

 

[smylee52]

Poor child. You see, the SP thing is a two-way street. How does a client know that an SP isn't STD free? Who has a greater chance of having an STD? M middle aged married man with children or an SP that has fucked 1000 men? How does he know she's not going to expose him?

Send me some pics along with your measurements. I'll give you an estimate of your worth as a porn newbie. I think the reality will probably take you off your high horse. Oh, and they'll put you through the grind. Think you can handle 8 - 10 inch cocks, double penetration, hardcore anal, and so on? You don't do anal? sorry, there is no place for you in hardcore porn then. You'll be in more pain than pleasure unless you're a real hardcore loving chick. It's quite a learning curve and it's why most porn girls simply don't last in the business. And.. and.. and... people will be able to see you fucking on film 'til the day you die, and AFTERWARD too! Your children and your parents will be most proud of their little darling.

Great. No sense making the popcorn now.
.
.
.

 

[CapitalGuy]

If an SP is not in the mood to perform, she should not be working that day. Yes, she is an individual person and has the right to control her body as she sees fit. But once she accepts our money, a certain level of service is expected, in cases where her business has been built on a reputation for being a consistent provider of that certain level of service. I too, have rights, and the biggest right is to have a certain level of expectations met once I hand over that envelope. To take our money then provide a sub-standard level of service, is theft, and "the right to control my own body" is not an acceptable excuse for providing less than typical service. Again, if she does not feel like working to her normal standard that day, she should not be taking our money. And here, I am talking about a significant drop in service levels on a particular day. Minor changes in mood/ability are expected and accepted.

This is entirely different than the SP who always provides a low standard of service. She can set her rates and be as uninspired an SP as she wishes to be, so long as she does not put up misleading advertising. I think that this is what Gen is talking about, in terms of a lady being free to set her own rates and working conditions. No disagreement there. The problem arises when a "known" or advertised level of service is not provided. That is theft, no matter how uninspired the lady may feel on that particular day. Don't feel like working? Then don't take my hard earned money.

 

[snowleopard]

I wouldn't dare ignore you. All I ask is that you pull your head out of the dark place it is hiding: your ass. I won't ask how you're able to fit it in there to begin with

I'm disappointed Shaun ... surely you can do better than to recycle the same implied suggestion I made about your preferred hiding place!

I suspect that you're the kind of guy that will argue black is white, no matter what, just for the sake of being provocative, knowing full well that it will piss people off, and then sit back with a big grin on your face, loving every minute of it. Consequently, I don't take you, or your opinions, too seriously. Some of the time, I'm laughing with you, the rest of the time I just kind of shake my head in disbelief.

I also suspect that you're not really as much of an macho asshole as you try to portray. It's just part of your game, and like your namesake, Sean Avery, hopefully, for your own sake, that too will change. Life kind of happens that way.

But have fun while it lasts ...

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Anyone else think Shaun's a fluffer on gay porn sets?

Or is he just some guy that watches too much porn and doesn't interact in the real world all that much?

Things that make you go "Hmmm...?"

 

[genintoronto]

Great post. I agree with you.

But I do think that if something is on the menu, it should be provided or should be taken off the menu.

Again, and at the risk of repeating myself, because an SP makes herself available sexually for pay doesn't mean she has to be available to anyone who offers to pay nor that she has to provide the same service to anyone who's paying.

For instance, my "menu" typically includes all the common acronyms that usually describe a GFE. That's what the average, clean, and respectful gentleman can expect from me. But so many things can change this "menu": the client's attitude and manners, his hygiene, our chemistry, his skills in bedroom gymnastics, etc.

Note that if for whatever reason I don't feel like I can provide a good experience to a client or that my "menu" would be extremely limited with that client compared to what I usually offer, I will cancel and refund the date (and have done a few times in the past) rather than pursue with the session.

Most SPs are usually consistent in the range of services they provide. Some are more YMMV than others. Read the frickin' reviews and learn to read between the lines. If you typically get the short end of the YMMV compared to other people's experience, chances are it's you, nor her. And from my personal experience, there are two main reasons that explain why some get the short end of the YMMV with me: 1) bad hygiene (sweaty balls & cock, BO, out-of-control pubic hair, dirty nails/fingers, bad breath, etc.); and/or 2) attitude (arrogant, disrespectful, whinny, pushy, etc.)

I also think it's absurd to expect to pay any kind of money to have somebody "hang out" with you. I'm sure some SPs lead very interesting lives and can tell me great tales about it, but they'll have to do so for free. Let's just say that money only factors in when one is getting other services integrated with the conversation portion. Quite frankly, I've had enough girls talk my ears off in life. I'm not going to pay to have them chew my ears off further.

What if some clients want to pay someone to be nothing else than an eye candy to hang out with?

The level of service and rates of the girls from the agency which seem to have inspired you to start this thread is very well documented here and elsewhere. Why did you even bother? You don't want to pay to "hang out" with a pretty eye candy? Don't. End of the story. But why don't you just leave those girls and their clients alone? Why do you take it as a personal insult?

And as an aside: if a client was to start a date with me by asking me about my "menu", I would most likely give a very evasive answer of the sort that you got, and would most likely consider very seriously about cancelling the appointement based on the client's attitude in the next few minutes. This for two reasons: 1) because of the legality around discussion of sex for money, and more importantly, 2) because the kind of client that wants me to list a menu before he will consider granting me the privilege of paying for my service is not the kind of client I want to spend time with.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Anyone else think Shaun's a fluffer on gay porn sets?

Or is he just some guy that watches too much porn and doesn't interact in the real world all that much?

Things that make you go "Hmmm...?"

Are you soliciting me for gay sex? Let's meet in the nearest public washroom.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Note that if for whatever reason I don't feel like I can provide a good experience to a client or that my "menu" would be extremely limited with that client compared to what I usually offer, I will cancel and refund the date (and have done a few times in the past) rather than pursue with the session.

Well ths thread is basically about those that don't cancel or refund.

What if some clients want to pay someone to be nothing else than an eye candy to hang out with?

Good for them, but a little nuance when communicating with an agency lets them know if that's what a client is looking for or not.

The level of service and rates of the girls from the agency which seem to have inspired you to start this thread is very well documented here and elsewhere. Why did you even bother? You don't want to pay to "hang out" with a pretty eye candy? Don't. End of the story. But why don't you just leave those girls and their clients alone? Why do you take it as a personal insult?

Why did I bother? Because my interaction with people is different than typical, so I often get different results. Sometimes better, sometimes way worse, but rarely the same as others. More than anything, I was curious.

What have I done to the agency and its clients? Nothing. I posted a review, which is what Terb is all about. I think my review is appreciated by those who were thinking of using the agency.

I've not taken anything as a personal insult. What makes you think I'm personally insulted?

And as an aside: if a client was to start a date with me by asking me about my "menu", I would most likely give a very evasive answer of the sort that you got, and would most likely consider very seriously about cancelling the appointement based on the client's attitude in the next few minutes.

I totally understand this and I know that this may be the reason she gave the answer that she did. It's not exactly a segue to a warm comfortable conversation, but given what I read about this agency, I simply wanted certain things spelled out from the start so as to not waste anybody's time. This is why I'm not personally insulted at all. I would understand your discomfort and unease and cause for cancellation. Ditto for me not presenting funds right away when she said "$400/hr". This saves you time, and me as well. I'm not confrontational or combatative; very laid back and just in a friendly way ask what's the score. I don't want to play tag with the funds or have to squeeze basic service out of somebody.

I've been with a variety of SPs, some who have not performed every service listed or unlisted that I would have preferred. They still got paid in full, and the experience was enjoyable. But knowing this particular agency's operations, I ensured that my approach was different than usual. If I went about things as usual, I could very well have severely disappointed and insulted. I'm neither. Like I said, no gain and no loss on my end.

This for two reasons: 1) because of the legality around discussion of sex for money, and more importantly, 2) because the kind of client that wants me to list a menu before he will consider granting me the privilege of paying for my service is not the kind of client I want to spend time with.

True, but this convo isn't over the phone. It's between two adults in the privacy of one's residence, so the discussion isn't heard by anybody but the parties in the room. I get your second point and addressed it above. I fully understand how my approach with this agency could be interpreted. At the same time, you and they need to understand that it's common knowledge that they literally rob clients, so it should not necessarily be an insult for a client to want the SP to be a little more forthright with services offered before a client forks over his money.

If she's uncomfortable, doesn't like the attitude of the client, doesn't care for the client's looks, then by all means cancel. No biggie. No insult or offense taken at all. I mean, I learned that in life you win some and you lose some.

 

[Shaunhorny]

Shaunhorny, it seems that you opened a can of worms. I can only say - the market will decide about the price and services.

Myself, I can only say this: if an SP offered FS for $50 or so, I would pass. I don't buy cheap things.

Ditto. I like mid-range as I'm not baller by any means. If it's too cheap, I get the impression the SP is seeing far too many clients and upping the risks too much for my tastes. Quality over quantity. But paying mid-range means at least mid-range service on average. I'm not asking SPs to have orgies haha.

 

[MPAsquared]

step outside the box!

It seems a lot of hobbyists are extremely naive. I'm making this post to give you an idea of what you should be able to expect from SP services and for what price.

Directly from the mouth of [content producer(s)] in the Porn industry right now:

"$100 per set is what I have paid models the past. Add the shitty economy and cut that down to $75-$80 per set to the model.

With the current economy I wouldn't offer more than USD$500 a day if she isn't taking cocks."

A day shoot is usually 5 - 6 hours. That for USD$500 - $1000 (taking cock). Note that these girls are 1) getting fucked on camera where the entire world will see them in perpetuity 2) they're handing over rights for others to use that video/photo content in any way they want.

For argument's sake, if an average SP is charging you $500/hour, you should expect good service. If you don't get good service at that rate, you're getting punked. If you pay that kind of money for idle chit chat with a girl because she looks good, you're an even greater punk (at this level you're a moron and your genes destined to the evolutionary dust bin, hopefully).

There are beautiful women in porn taking cocks in all holes getting paid these rates. Don't let a no-name SP charge you similar and NOT have her fuck your brains out behind closed doors. You are the one in charge. You're the one with the money to pay for a service. Everybody wants money. These girls live for money. No service, no money. If many of you would stop allowing yourselves to be punked, these girls would shape up. The ones who think they can do better would have to stick to domestic high rollers (who themselves may be unreliable since they can buy girls by the dozens) or pack their bags for NYC or LA.

Former NYC Governor Spitzer was busted using an escort service that charged between US$1,000 to US$5,500 per hour. You can be sure as fuck he and other clients paying those rates weren't doing it and getting the cold shoulder. They were getting exactly what they wanted; sex, and every fetish fantasy they wanted fulfilled. In many cases I suspect they got more than what you'd see on a typical hardcore porn film because it's behind closed doors so nobody will ever know, while there are some things even porn models don't want to do on film.

If you've ever paid $400+ and didn't get all basic services covered, you've been punked big time.

While Max Hardcore is now sitting in a Federal prison on charges relating to shipping of obscene material, he became a millionaire by paying girls $1500 to have them for several hours where he'd film himself ass fucking them, pissing on them, have them gag and puke, restrain them, speculum play, and all kinds of other shit.

Tell me you are kidding! I want you to watch a documentory I've seen many times on A&E about Red Light Districts all over the world....prices vary based on industry, target market, and services rendered. Your narrow view is so 'naieve' as you put it!

You can go to a brothel in Poland for next to nothing, you can see a peep show in vegas for alot. if you are a local in areas of China, you get a nude massage from American girls for $1000US! Give me a break that porn is comparable to SP's and that those paying fair money to fair women is "naieve"

 

[Shaunhorny]

Tell me you are kidding! I want you to watch a documentory I've seen many times on A&E about Red Light Districts all over the world....prices vary based on industry, target market, and services rendered. Your narrow view is so 'naieve' as you put it!

You can go to a brothel in Poland for next to nothing, you can see a peep show in vegas for alot. if you are a local in areas of China, you get a nude massage from American girls for $1000US! Give me a break that porn is comparable to SP's and that those paying fair money to fair women is "naieve"

I already took into account different rates depending on geography. Try again. Your remark isn't germane to my arguments anyway, so bow down or get the fuck out.

I know of a guy in Asia right now who has gangbangs every night for $50. As much as I like the thought of lots of cheap sex, it actually has the inverse effect on me in reality. Lots of cheap sex means extremely high risk, so I have no real desire to partake.

 

[Rockslinger]

If she's uncomfortable, doesn't like the attitude of the client, doesn't care for the client's looks, then by all means cancel. No biggie. No insult or offense taken at all. I mean, I learned that in life you win some and you lose some.

I agree with Shaunhorny on the above scenario. No deal consummated and no money changed hands. Sounds fair enough.

I discuss services with dancers all the time. If we can't agree on the service and/or the price, then no deal. No hard feelings, we are all adults. Believe it or not, the dancers sometimes give me a kiss on the forehead, the cheeks and once on the lips as they depart.