Did Muhammad Exist? - Robert Spencer lays out his argument that maybe he didn't exist
- Thread starter canada-man
- Start date
Of course you have a basis for this claim, not.Dude was a pedophile
another of spencers theorys is that he did exist then wrote the koran to justify whatever he did after the fact such as marry a 9 year old neice by saying allah said it was OK
pillage another tribe
etc
apparently spencer cannot make up his mind
pillage another tribe
etc
apparently spencer cannot make up his mind
Last edited:
Quote Originally Posted by HEYHEY :
Dude was a pedophile
Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr (612–678) (Arabic: عائشة transliteration: ‘Ā’ishah, [ʕaːʔiʃa], also transcribed as A'ishah, Aisyah, Ayesha, A'isha, Aishat, Aishah, or Aisha) was one of Muḥammad's wives.[1] In Islamic writings, her name is thus often prefixed by the title "Mother of the Believers" (Arabic: أمّ المؤمنين umm al-mu'minīn), per the description of Muhammad's wives in the Qur'an.[2][3][4] Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of six and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old.
Age at marriage
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[14][14][16][17][18][19][20] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[16] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[21][22]
The issue of Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[who?]American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[16] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha Weddings of adults to children still happens in some Muslim countries these days.
Dude was a pedophile
AishaOf course you have a basis for this claim, not.
Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr (612–678) (Arabic: عائشة transliteration: ‘Ā’ishah, [ʕaːʔiʃa], also transcribed as A'ishah, Aisyah, Ayesha, A'isha, Aishat, Aishah, or Aisha) was one of Muḥammad's wives.[1] In Islamic writings, her name is thus often prefixed by the title "Mother of the Believers" (Arabic: أمّ المؤمنين umm al-mu'minīn), per the description of Muhammad's wives in the Qur'an.[2][3][4] Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of six and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old.
Age at marriage
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[14][14][16][17][18][19][20] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[16] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[21][22]
The issue of Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[who?]American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[16] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha Weddings of adults to children still happens in some Muslim countries these days.
This is evidence of arranged marriages, often involving very young girls, quite common in the past, not pedophilia. People often died in their twenties so married young to get a start on the family. You are applying todays standards on a time they don't properly apply.Quote Originally Posted by HEYHEY :
Dude was a pedophile
Aisha
Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr (612–678) (Arabic: عائشة transliteration: ‘Ā’ishah, [ʕaːʔiʃa], also transcribed as A'ishah, Aisyah, Ayesha, A'isha, Aishat, Aishah, or Aisha) was one of Muḥammad's wives.[1] In Islamic writings, her name is thus often prefixed by the title "Mother of the Believers" (Arabic: أمّ المؤمنين umm al-mu'minīn), per the description of Muhammad's wives in the Qur'an.[2][3][4] Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of six and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old.
Age at marriage
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[14][14][16][17][18][19][20] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[16] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[21][22]
The issue of Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[who?]American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[16] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha
Now I'm confused. How could he be a pedophile if he never existed?Quote Originally Posted by HEYHEY :
Dude was a pedophile
Aisha
Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr (612–678) (Arabic: عائشة transliteration: ‘Ā’ishah, [ʕaːʔiʃa], also transcribed as A'ishah, Aisyah, Ayesha, A'isha, Aishat, Aishah, or Aisha) was one of Muḥammad's wives.[1] In Islamic writings, her name is thus often prefixed by the title "Mother of the Believers" (Arabic: أمّ المؤمنين umm al-mu'minīn), per the description of Muhammad's wives in the Qur'an.[2][3][4] Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of six and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old.
Age at marriage
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[14][14][16][17][18][19][20] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[16] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[21][22]
The issue of Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[who?]American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[16] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha Weddings of adults to children still happens in some Muslim countries these days.
In McMurdo Station that would makes lots of sense, but hey.Discussing religion on Terb is like wearing a parka in July.
Given the absence of Higher Criticism from the study of Islam it is no wonder that thesis such as this seem so "attack mode."
bahahahhahahahahahThis is evidence of arranged marriages, often involving very young girls, quite common in the past, not pedophilia. People often died in their twenties so married young to get a start on the family. You are applying todays standards on a time they don't properly apply.
so you're part of this mental illness they call islam eh?
Because it was back in the day for Blackrock it was ok and wasn't pedophilia, I'm sure he's also ok with this happening nowadays because its their culture.This is evidence of arranged marriages, often involving very young girls, quite common in the past, not pedophilia. People often died in their twenties so married young to get a start on the family. You are applying todays standards on a time they don't properly apply.
Why is no one protecting Saudi Arabia's child brides? Tuesday 8 November 2011 10.00 GM
Atgaa, 10, and her sister Reemya, 8, are about to be married to men in their 60s. Atgaa will be her husband's fourth wife. Their wedding celebrations are scheduled for this week and will take place in the town of Fayaadah Abban in Qasim, Saudi Arabia.
The girls are getting married because their financially struggling father needs the money that their dowries will provide: young girls of this age can fetch as much as $40,000 each.
Many readers might be shocked at this news. How can it be legal? The answer is that Saudi Arabia has no minimum age for marriage, and it is perfectly legal to marry even an hour-old child.
Read the full article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/08/saudi-arabia-child-brides-marriage#ixzz2UhRMf1Lb
You've kind of touched on the problem as to why it exists today. Societal attitudes were different back then, and it didn't matter the religion that you were in, it was a common practice among all practitioners in the 7th century. A considerably shorter lifespan was a big reason for this.Because it was back in the day for Blackrock it was ok and wasn't pedophilia, I'm sure he's also ok with this happening nowadays because its their culture.
Why is no one protecting Saudi Arabia's child brides?
The problem is that many Muslims are raised to believe that what Mohammed did, they can do. Now it depends on your approach to Islam. There are many who follow the school of thought that the teachings of Mohammed have to be applied to contemporary society. In fact, during the times of the Ottomans, Abbasids and other Muslim dynasties, science, philosophy and a just in general basic learning was regarded as important facets of society. It was a requirement, not an option.
But the Ottomans declined in power in the 19th century, and chose the wrong side in WW1. Thus ending their dominance in Islam. With the new power vacuum, Saudi and all it's oil made it the most influential Muslim power today. But unlike the previous Muslim powers, the Saudis are Wahhabis. Strict followers of the literal interpretation of the Quran, and they don't seem to have the good sense to apply logic in understanding the complexities of differences in society 1400 years ago. But because of vastly superior bank reserves, they are able to start up schools in poor Muslim countries that did terribly under colonialism, starting to pick up the pieces. Unfortunately, due to a series of world events, the Saudis were able to be far more successful than anyone could imagine in propagating their version of Islam.
Going back to the child brides that were brought up, there are groups that are fighting this, and are making inroads. But in an insanely conservative society, slow steps are taken. One king who tried to reform too fast was assassinated. They are working on giving females the right to drive, they are so far back, but to expect western levels of progress would result in a stronger pushback.
Just imagine yourself in Victorian conservative England. The year is 1850. Advocate for gay rights, female equality, and all that fun stuff and you'll be given the rope for being a raging lunatic and promoting heresy. That's where things are right now in Saudi, and by relation, a good portion of the Muslim world. It sucks massively, but that is the case.
As for whether Muhammed exists, that's a new one. But I think he is recorded well enough to deter any form of skepticism. Even the two largest sects of Islam - shias and sunnis agree on the basic foundation timeline. Otherwise it would be a rather interesting phenomenon that a world wide religion that is comparatively homogenous just sprung out from fabricated stories 200 years after the fact, at a time when the Muslim world was quite vast and spread out.
How do you connect a common societal practise over a thousand years ago with my supposed acceptance of it today? That is CM logic for sure.Because it was back in the day for Blackrock it was ok and wasn't pedophilia, I'm sure he's also ok with this happening nowadays because its their culture.
Why is no one protecting Saudi Arabia's child brides? Tuesday 8 November 2011 10.00 GM
Atgaa, 10, and her sister Reemya, 8, are about to be married to men in their 60s. Atgaa will be her husband's fourth wife. Their wedding celebrations are scheduled for this week and will take place in the town of Fayaadah Abban in Qasim, Saudi Arabia.
The girls are getting married because their financially struggling father needs the money that their dowries will provide: young girls of this age can fetch as much as $40,000 each.
Many readers might be shocked at this news. How can it be legal? The answer is that Saudi Arabia has no minimum age for marriage, and it is perfectly legal to marry even an hour-old child.
Read the full article at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/nov/08/saudi-arabia-child-brides-marriage#ixzz2UhRMf1Lb
Child brides and arranged marriages are common in some societies today outside the Muslim community as well, although I'm not aware of many in the single digit range. We live 3 times longer these days than back then. The example you offer is more an arrangement based on the parent desperate position than on any pedophiliac desires of the husband to be.
Rumour has it at 60 he might have trouble getting it up. :Eek:
Stoning people to death and not allowing women to go outside on their own is also common in some societies, doesn't mean its rightHow do you connect a common societal practise over a thousand years ago with my supposed acceptance of it today? That is CM logic for sure.
Child brides and arranged marriages are common in some societies today outside the Muslim community as well, although I'm not aware of many in the single digit range. We live 3 times longer these days than back then. The example you offer is more an arrangement based on the parent desperate position than on any pedophiliac desires of the husband to be.
Rumour has it at 60 he might have trouble getting it up. :Eek:
I've not anywhere said it was. You may think unaccompanied women is a good thing, but that is debatable when you hear all these reports of rapes of unaccompanied women and children in South Asia.Stoning people to death and not allowing women to go outside on their own is also common in some societies, doesn't mean its right
I guess your problem is that the best modern scholarship concludes that Jesus and Mohammed existed.+1
Misinterpretations by cavemen who believed the world was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.
Which might make you the caveman...
There is a really good book you should read. It's called "Shrinking History".Quote Originally Posted by HEYHEY :
Dude was a pedophile
Aisha
Ā’ishah bint Abī Bakr (612–678) (Arabic: عائشة transliteration: ‘Ā’ishah, [ʕaːʔiʃa], also transcribed as A'ishah, Aisyah, Ayesha, A'isha, Aishat, Aishah, or Aisha) was one of Muḥammad's wives.[1] In Islamic writings, her name is thus often prefixed by the title "Mother of the Believers" (Arabic: أمّ المؤمنين umm al-mu'minīn), per the description of Muhammad's wives in the Qur'an.[2][3][4] Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of six and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old.
Age at marriage
According to traditional sources, Aisha was six or seven years old when she was betrothed to Muhammad and nine when the marriage was consummated.[14][14][16][17][18][19][20] However, al-Ṭabarī records that she was ten.[16] The sources do not offer much more information about Aisha's childhood years.[21][22]
The issue of Aisha's age at the time she was married to Muhammad has been of interest since the earliest days of Islam, and references to her age by early historians are frequent.[who?]American historian Denise Spellberg states that "these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity."[16] Early Muslims regarded Aisha's youth as demonstrating her virginity and therefore her suitability as a bride of Muhammad. This issue of her virginity was of great importance to those who supported Aisha's position in the debate of the succession to Muhammad. These supporters considered that as Muhammad's only virgin wife, Aisha was divinely intended for him, and therefore the most credible regarding the debate.[23]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha Weddings of adults to children still happens in some Muslim countries these days.
I guess you don't think much of the Spartans either.
Especially if he thinks cavemen were still around at the time those two lived.I guess your problem is that the best modern scholarship concludes that Jesus and Mohammed existed.
Which might make you the caveman...
K
Kareena
Regarding Jesus, Bart Ehrman wrote a really good book (at least according to me) - "Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth". Spoiler alert for anyone interested in reading it - Jesus was a real guy.What do Abraham moses christ and muhammad all have in common?
They're all fictitious characters.
