Dimanno - Police culture needs changing.....
- Thread starter nottyboi
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Ive always had the idea that you have to question the mentality of anyone who actually was to be a cop to begin with
Would our society be better off without cops? No cops mean no complaints/whining about cops.
Ive always had the idea that you have to question the mentality of anyone who actually was to be a cop to begin with
I think he means they're like goalies. You have to be unbalanced to want to be one.Would our society be better off without cops? No cops mean no complaints/whining about cops.
There was no provocation. In one case me and some friends out for a ride were pulled over by two cops who mistook us for another group who were riding like maniacs. One of the two cops was perfectly reasonable and professional, the other was a COMPLETE DOUCHEBAG. He was constantly baiting me to try and have grounds for arresting me. But I kept my wits about me. His partner was almost apologetic for the asshole he was working with.Make yourself look invisible and avoid eye contact. Do not provoke them.
Can't really have a society without cops at this stage. It would be the wild west. Even they had lawmen.Would our society be better off without cops? No cops mean no complaints/whining about cops.
Yes all that is part of the job. Its not an easy job, they deal with scumbags all the time. They need to trained for this and psychologically supported. But that does not mean a blank cheque.Yes, it's the job of the cops to change thug culture. Just like it's their job to go to a house when someone calls because their 16 year old kid is being an ass and won't listen, and its the cops job to fix 16 years of crappy parenting right then and there. And its also the cops job to go to domestic disputes and immediately unravel 20 years of a crappy relationship and make everything better right then and there. And its their job to deal with a person with mental health issues and fix them right then and there, even though their own family won't or can't intervene. Yup, forget individual responsibility, it's the cops fault. I've seen a number of studies that identify the break down of socio-economic factors and family cohesiveness that lead to gangs and thug culture, but none because it's the failed responsibility of the cops to change it. People need to look for their own responsibilities, and quit trying to blame others for their failures.
Rosie is off base sometimes, but she is as mainstream as it gets and in a very mainstream newspaper. This is on the front of the citys newspaper, it does not get any more mainstream then that.Rosie is an ass-hat and anything she says is to be ignored.
That being said, this boils down to the cost of public service. When times were good and there were many good paying private sector jobs, the number and salaries of those in the public service jobs wasn't much of an issue. Today this is an issue, with the private sector jobs not on the same level they were 30 years ago, the public sector needs to rethink numbers and possibly turning some over to the private sector. The police budget is the biggest draw on most municipalities, wages being their largest take, it's not surprising that there is a movement afoot that wants to trim this budget down. While the everyday cost has gone up with the wages, office supplies, gas, parts, etc., the everyday needs of a force, the only place to trim is the workforce itself. This isn't just in policing, but all facets of municipal public service.
The politicians don't trim, they take the easy way out and look to all departments within the city and identify the low hanging fruit. All departments heads, the Chief being one, are purposely picked as "Yes Men", when hired. The main question being, are you willing to do what it takes to trim your budget? His ideas aren't new, so they aren't outside the box. It's just an emergency plan that has been adjusted to everyday policing, to make a budget cut work.
It's not just the police that are going to feel the pinch going forward. All departments within the city will feel the squeeze at some point in the future and all union heads will be trying to protect their fiefdom. It's the changing face of a poor economy.
Why, because I used capital letters for emphasis? I have had very few interactions with the law, and none for quite a while. I do avoid them like the plague as nothing good can come from interacting with a police officer in a non-emergency situation. Most of the nice ones I have met are very boring and the rest are twits so there you have it. They are all a bit "off". I guess C36 has not been enforced much in Toronto, but your luck is with you so far until someone decides to enforce it.You see, you sound really mad right now.
Even after Bill C36 passed, I still haven't had any problems with police officers. So what am I doing right??
Yup.Yes, it's the job of the cops to change thug culture. Just like it's their job to go to a house when someone calls because their 16 year old kid is being an ass and won't listen, and its the cops job to fix 16 years of crappy parenting right then and there. And its also the cops job to go to domestic disputes and immediately unravel 20 years of a crappy relationship and make everything better right then and there. And its their job to deal with a person with mental health issues and fix them right then and there, even though their own family won't or can't intervene. Yup, forget individual responsibility, it's the cops fault. I've seen a number of studies that identify the break down of socio-economic factors and family cohesiveness that lead to gangs and thug culture, but none because it's the failed responsibility of the cops to change it. People need to look for their own responsibilities, and quit trying to blame others for their failures.
No different than teaching. Teachers roles should be about teaching kids knowledge about various subjects, as opposed to be being an 8 hour babysitter and being policeman to the family's personal life BS. But some reason some parents think a teacher should also act as Parent #3 and do the work for them.
As for cops vs thugs it goes both ways.
Crook and thugs are asses and should help themselves. Cops roles are to enforce laws, and not take over as a parent. Just like teaching, some parents think cops are robots and should conform to thug life. Not going to happen and shouldn't happen.
However, some cops are asses too and try to be Dirty Harry kicking people's asses when they shouldn't. And even worse is that the police culture (and military) are the most asinine buddy-buddy system out there. So when someone does go overboard, every cop, police chief, union leader and top dog city sergeant or military leader always tries to brush it off and sweep it under the rug. Zero accountability. And nobody seems to give a shit.
It's a very weird way of creating an image. If someone at work does something really stupid, the company will try to fire them, coworkers will hate them and try to avoid them, and no CEO or HR person put on the spot will try to protect his ass. If he's bad for the organization, everyone wants him gone. In police and military, bad seeds are tolerated.
If thuggers acted better, cops would act better. Also, if cops didn't act like over the top authoritative asses, I'm sure there would be less annoying BLM and low income families trying to put down cops.
I will admit some cops are total dicks and joined the force for all the wrong reasons.Why, because I used capital letters for emphasis? I have had very few interactions with the law, and none for quite a while. I do avoid them like the plague as nothing good can come from interacting with a police officer in a non-emergency situation. Most of the nice ones I have met are very boring and the rest are twits so there you have it. They are all a bit "off". I guess C36 has not been enforced much in Toronto, but your luck is with you so far until someone decides to enforce it
Again though, the only time I ever come in contact with them is when I'm getting a speeding ticket. How else would you come into so much contact with cops unless you're into criminal activities. Its not like cops will hassle you for no apparent reason, will they??
Like I said, grown adults need to take responsibility for their own actions. So yes, if I broke the law and got caught I would plead guilty and accept the consequences rather than plead not guilty knowing that I am and waste tax payers money by trying to bullshit my way in court.So you would plead guilty and not defend yourself? And BTW its not just enforcing the law. I have no problem with that. Its when police BREAK THE LAW. That and what happens after is what I am most concerned with . Enforcing the law is their job. Breaking the law or obstructing due process is inexcusable for an officer IMHO.
It's about time more grown people stopped acting like children.
I have had several interactions with police that were not emergency situations. Simply meeting them on the street and offering a hello and once in a while a thank-you for their service. It may mean nothing to them but I am sure once in a while an officer interprets my greeting as possibly the only pleasant experience that they may have had that day.Why, because I used capital letters for emphasis? I have had very few interactions with the law, and none for quite a while. I do avoid them like the plague as nothing good can come from interacting with a police officer in a non-emergency situation. Most of the nice ones I have met are very boring and the rest are twits so there you have it. They are all a bit "off". I guess C36 has not been enforced much in Toronto, but your luck is with you so far until someone decides to enforce it.
I have also encountered the occasional dickhead cop but as long as I keep my cool and act politely than that attitude soon changes.
As it is with pretty much everyone you meet in life, if you act respectfully toward them than they are likely to respect you back.
Just like if you act like an asshole than you will be treated as such.
The best way to avoid trouble with law enforcement is to not provoke trouble, either by your actions or with your mouth. Contrary to what you believe or claim to have experienced, police do not bait citizens for no reason.
Wait a minute. In another thread you mentioned that any cop you come in contact with does not want to march in pride. So do you bring it up during speeding infractions?I will admit some cops are total dicks and joined the force for all the wrong reasons.
Again though, the only time I ever come in contact with them is when I'm getting a speeding ticket. How else would you come into so much contact with cops unless you're into criminal activities. Its not like cops will hassle you for no apparent reason, will they??
I disagree about how the way thugs behave should affect how cops behave. Much like a teacher or parent the cop is expected to act like a mature adult. Which means even if someone is being a shit head you still have to follow the law. You don't get to choose when to cross the line.Yup.
No different than teaching. Teachers roles should be about teaching kids knowledge about various subjects, as opposed to be being an 8 hour babysitter and being policeman to the family's personal life BS. But some reason some parents think a teacher should also act as Parent #3 and do the work for them.
As for cops vs thugs it goes both ways.
Crook and thugs are asses and should help themselves. Cops roles are to enforce laws, and not take over as a parent. Just like teaching, some parents think cops are robots and should conform to thug life. Not going to happen and shouldn't happen.
However, some cops are asses too and try to be Dirty Harry kicking people's asses when they shouldn't. And even worse is that the police culture (and military) are the most asinine buddy-buddy system out there. So when someone does go overboard, every cop, police chief, union leader and top dog city sergeant or military leader always tries to brush it off and sweep it under the rug. Zero accountability. And nobody seems to give a shit.
It's a very weird way of creating an image. If someone at work does something really stupid, the company will try to fire them, coworkers will hate them and try to avoid them, and no CEO or HR person put on the spot will try to protect his ass. If he's bad for the organization, everyone wants him gone. In police and military, bad seeds are tolerated.
If thuggers acted better, cops would act better. Also, if cops didn't act like over the top authoritative asses, I'm sure there would be less annoying BLM and low income families trying to put down cops.
But I do agree that both the thugs and cops need to be better. And yes, unions need to realize that protecting the rogue cops does not help the rest of the police force.
There's 2 cops that work out at the same gym I go to. We sometimes talk.Wait a minute. In another thread you mentioned that any cop you come in contact with does not want to march in pride. So do you bring it up during speeding infractions?
I wouldnt call them close friends though
Yeah, I get that, but everyone's human. No matter how cool headed someone is, if a crook is in a footchase and resisting arrest or a protester spits in your face calling you a pig, people react.I disagree about how the way thugs behave should affect how cops behave. Much like a teacher or parent the cop is expected to act like a mature adult. Which means even if someone is being a shit head you still have to follow the law. You don't get to choose when to cross the line.
But I do agree that both the thugs and cops need to be better. And yes, unions need to realize that protecting the rogue cops does not help the rest of the police force.
The "and got caught" caveat, shows quite a level of hypocrisy. If you are so law abiding, why would you even break the law in the first place? Most criminals believe they will never be caught. It is actually a key pillar in criminal psychology.Like I said, grown adults need to take responsibility for their own actions. So yes, if I broke the law and got caught I would plead guilty and accept the consequences rather than plead not guilty knowing that I am and waste tax payers money by trying to bullshit my way in court.
It's about time more grown people stopped acting like children.
cops are trained, they are expected to deal with bad situations. Behaving like a common person in a high stress situation is simply not good enough. That is why they are expected to be Torontos Finest. In such situations they are supposed to be MUCH BETTER then you or me, because they are supposed to match a certain psychological profile, and be trained and drilled to react well in difficult conditions.Yeah, I get that, but everyone's human. No matter how cool headed someone is, if a crook is in a footchase and resisting arrest or a protester spits in your face calling you a pig, people react.
Of course they do, there are countless situations that have been well documented where they do exactly this. You don't think Forcillo was baiting Yatim? There were even cases where cops dressed as protesters and started a riot.I have had several interactions with police that were not emergency situations. Simply meeting them on the street and offering a hello and once in a while a thank-you for their service. It may mean nothing to them but I am sure once in a while an officer interprets my greeting as possibly the only pleasant experience that they may have had that day.
I have also encountered the occasional dickhead cop but as long as I keep my cool and act politely than that attitude soon changes.
As it is with pretty much everyone you meet in life, if you act respectfully toward them than they are likely to respect you back.
Just like if you act like an asshole than you will be treated as such.
The best way to avoid trouble with law enforcement is to not provoke trouble, either by your actions or with your mouth. Contrary to what you believe or claim to have experienced, police do not bait citizens for no reason.
dwb?...its not like cops will hassle you for no apparent reason, will they??
