Do you believe in Creation...

[Aardvark154]

The flaw in your statement is that word 'educated'.

It isn't a flaw at all, it says what it says. It is not that Pierre or Johann two Serfs knew this, both were in all likelihood illiterate. Rather it is that all educated people which of course includes those clerics that you imply didn't believe that the earth is a sphere, knew it.

 

[Crixus]

The flaw in your statement is that word 'educated'. To be considered educated you needed knowledge and knowledge was closely controlled, usually by the church. Most ruler/governments/leaders feared educated/knowledgeable people who were not cradled in the arms of the church. The church controlled most knowledge at least until the development of the printing press. As is often touted today knowledge is power. Rulers didn't want the masses to have knowledge. Then they'd know they were being screwed over and might want to do something; fight. rebel, go on strike, VOTE!!!!

Keep them dumb and safe from themselves.

As far as the canard you speak of, it's the first I've heard of it. Got to look into it.

I'd question whether it was a deliberate conspiracy of ignorance, although undoubtedly in some cases it was (I wonder what Machiavelli had to say on the subject, time to dust off The Prince).

Economics and practicality played a big part in it. It just wasn't possible to disseminate information and education widely. As you note, a lot of European medieval history predates the (Western) invention of the printing press. When you have to pay (or at least feed) a monk to make a hand copied version of a book before you can read it, books are the province of the wealthy and privileged. Without books, the amount of information you can transmit by oral tradition is limited. It makes you really appreciate the Internet, where information can be disseminated and discussed in minutes and not years, doesn't it (although Sturgeon's Law rears its ugly head)? Toss in the fact that most serfs were too busy raising enough food to barely keep from starving to death (at least until the beginning of the "High Middle Ages") that they lacked time, energy, and resources to learn to read and write. Educational opportunities were pretty bleak unless you became part of the clergy or entered the monastic orders.

As for the shape of the Earth, the ancient Greek philosophers had determined the shape of the Earth thousands of years prior to the Medieval age. They even determined it's rough size (although their estimates were off by several 100%). As you noted though, there is a difference between known and commonly known.

 

[Tarkus]

What I find as funny is how a few centuries ago you would have been considered ignorant if you did not believe in God. Now there are those who see science as a religion and consider those who believe in God are ignorant.

Very true! I know many scientists who still believe in God. The two do not need to be in conflict.

I think the problem is that the Evangelicals have decided to play it that way. They have tried to introduce child like scientific arguments to prove their position when it cannot be done nor is it worthy of the effort.

On the other hand maybe after centuries of people being burned for Heresy it some payback?

 

[Tarkus]

I was a big ELP fan in the 70s. Saw a lot of shows. Carl Palmer played at Lee's Palace a year or two ago. It'd be great to see the original 3 again.

Don't you think their version of the hymn Jerusalem is might good!

Carl Palmer was in Toronto? Jeez I am out of the loop. I thought I had seen them every time they hit the city?

ELP has played in Europe off and on. I think they go to that festival that 10 Years After repeatedly heads in Germany. Not sure if we'll ever see the trio on this side of the lake again.

Their version of Jerusalem should be the only one allowed to be played in Anglican Churches... if you like that you check out any of a number of mixes of "I Vow To Thee My Country". It is a poem by Spring-Rice that was implanted on Gustav Holst's Jupiter theme. Same kind of stirring stuff... was used a lot on this year's version of Britain's Got Talent.

 

[The Crunge]

Wow! There are 12 people (so far) on this board who believe the world, and everything on it, was created in 6 days....and a mere 6,000 years ago.

Gotta love the diversity of the human race.

 

[star_lord1]

Isn't it that Newton's physics is right - but in our physical world as we know and live in?

So given our atmosphere AND earth gravity, it does follow a set of rules.

Even in outer space, there's such things as conservation of motion and inertia, etc.

Does relativity & quantum theories explain every day effects better or different effects?

As I understand it, and I'm no expert, Newtonian physics "falls out" of Einsteinian physics in the case of an unaccelerated frame of reference. Specifically, this applies to the General Theory of Relativity and Newton's theory of gravity.

For us living on Earth, our daily experiences are those of an unaccelerated frame of reference so Newtonian gravity works as well as Einsteinian - and the math is easier so be thankfull that we're not in close orbit about a black hole!

 

[Tarkus]

Tarkus,

There's a tribute band in TO playing ELP. I've heard them, and they're quite good. They're now playing a lot outside of town, opening for bigger tribute bands.

Here is their website:

http://www.sevenvirgins.ca/

Check them out.

Al

Thanks... I'm not all that big into cover bands like that but it is neat to see that the music lives on.

 

[a 1 player]

I don't know about the rest of the world, but according to my dad, I was created in about 3 minutes flat.

 

[Stoo]

So I want away for the weekend, and I see my little poll has sparked some healthy debate! I haven't had a chance to read everything yet, but I hope everyone is behaving...!