Do you think Armstrong Cheated ?

[train]

There is a lot of speculation that he took steroids in 1999 . Apparantly one of his samples from back then has been retested using current testing technology and found to be positive. Obviously after this time lag the results are questionable due to chain of evidence issues etc.

Is Lance just another in the long line of American athletes such as Flo-Jo, Carl Lewis and every other US sprinter, Barry Bonds , Palmero , Marion Jones , McGwire.

Cycling is rumoured to be one of the "dirtiest" sports to begin with ?

 

[The Doctor]

Regardless, it doesn't change what he did outside of the sport for cancer research. I'm not ready to throw away my yellow wristband just yet.

 

[Geoff]

There have been some reports from one of Canada's top labs, that urine stored from 1999 will not show any supposed EPO doping. As it is a protein if frozen for 3-4 years will show nothing in the second sample.

Like the Doc has said, he is still a great athlete, and has done an enormous amountof work for cancer.

Personally I think that the French are just suck holes.

 

[Goober Mcfly]

Cycling is for losers.

*runs*

 

[Asterix]

I also have to wonder about re-testing a sample from 6 years ago, without addressing to what degree it may have degraded or been contaminated in the meantime. The lab said they wern't even sure it was his. We're relying on documents a newspaper says it has, a newspaper that when he said he was retiring after his last win, said good riddance and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. Let's give this one a little time before drawing conclusions.

 

[Bud Plug]

I don't think anything's been proven yet, but I suspect Armstrong's performance has been artificially enhanced in some way. However, I also suspect the same of most of his competitors.

It's only a matter of time until a doctor comes along who's smarter than those paid millions to help these athletes beat the tests. After that, an even better paid and smarter doctor will come along who will be able to foil the latest tests again.

The only way to keep performance enhancing drugs out of a sport is for the athletes to make very little money for winning (including endorsements, etc). So long as big bucks are on the line, people will look for an edge.

 

[Ref]

The only way to keep performance enhancing drugs out of a sport is for the athletes to make very little money for winning (including endorsements, etc). So long as big bucks are on the line, people will look for an edge.

Good point. Even the old communist nations provided their athletes with a better life-style in return for olympic glory.

 

[unshavencuban]

that fuck is as clean as a liberal cabinet minister
he's sooo dirty

 

[stevebrady111]

lance won 7 in a row remember

lance armstrong is an amazing human being. he won the tour 7 years in a row. winning it once is a huge accomplishment alone. plus, during all of these years of competition, he was constantly tested, daily during these competitions, never once tested positive for any performing enhanced drugs. armstrong is one of the most gifted athletes and human specimens (he actually has the ability to take in about 25-50% more oxygen then a normal human being), giving him an enormous edge. not to mention his cycling team, which has always been top notch in helping lance to victory; and lances' unbelieveable drive to win. he beat terminal cancer and still went on to dominate one of the most grueling sports competitions in the world.....his legacy will be that he was as close to a super-human as you can get, dope free!

 

[Kev]

Cycling is for losers.

*runs*

Mcfuck you and the mcgoober mcfly horse you rode in.

Go Ottawa....................

 

[train]

Yes , he has done a great deal for cancer awareness and that certainly counts in his favour . Yes his feat was amazing , doped or not. Yes the French Press are wankers.

hdog's qoute is sadly also applicable .

Opinion seems fairly evenly split ......just like the issue.....inconclusive.

 

[jbwent63]

Armstrong/Bush

Isn't it interesting that within days of Lance cycling with Bush (43) that the French press try and discredit him. Of course the French are in love with anything American these days, and when they saw Lance with GW they probably went nuts.......

As for me, the yellow LIVESTRONG wrist band stays.

 

[zydeco]

Time will tell if there is any substance(no pun intended) to these allegations. In the meantime, a guy like Armstrong deserves the benefit of the doubt.

 

[healer677]

Lance Armstrong pretty much dominated the crown jewel sport of the French.

He's probably a Republican.

He was seen with GW being lovey dovey.

Of course the that peice of tabloid trash will try and discredit him.

He is probably the most tested athlete in the world. What did they find? Dick. They used 17 B sample from 1999 - ok. 6 were "positve" for EPO...ok..where were the other 11 sample? Who did the testing? Were the samples even pure? Theyre trying to discredit a great athlete and a true champion for cancer research. Shame on them.

And I'm sure a reputable lab will call a second rate tabliod journalist first to inform them of the results, right? Not cyclings governing body, not Dick Pund's group, not even the athlete.

Absolute trash.

 

[franky66]

FloJo was tested alot and escaped. Anything is possible. How many times was Marion Jones caught

What is so different about Lance?

 

[MarkII]

Well lets establish one thing... I am not an Athlete! But I am very vocal and outspoken on this subject. (If I make spelling mistakes from here to the end...I'm typin not lookin! Please excuse any typos.)

I recall a few years back when "Ben Johnson" happened.

I was working at a Canadian TV network at the time. And..there were reports that an American TV network mentioned to a Canadian that..."you're guy is going down" before the urine test even happened. I later verified this as being a true statement.

The events of Ben's "trial"....because that is what is was, (even if criminal charges were not possible)...bore out the idea that it was a setup.

Knowing the people involved in the conversation I have ALWAYS wondered.

I couple this with the knowledge that ANY athlete on the world stage has gone through so many tests, it is absolutely unbelievable that they would get caught on the final stage of their career.

They train right to the minute of the event..in terms of their peak physical condition. I know this to be a 100% fact. That includes testing negative for anything.

How any athlete's whether on steriods or not could get to that point without testing normal is ludicrious. They..the athletes handlers..are better than the testers.

Always 2 steps ahead.

It is not the individual athletes...they only want to compete on the world stage in an "even" event. If that means using something to be the "same" they'll do it on the advice of their training staff.

Forget this...holyier than thou crap...they want what anyone wants and they'll do anything to wear gold....the same way you or I would.

The Russians haven't let an athlete stay in the athlete's village for years..in the summer Olympic's they rent an ocean liner to house their athletes so they cannot be tested.

The athletes from China..the same story.

(Yes they worry about defections..but it has more to do with credibility.)

I got very close to a number of elite athletes during my years at the TV network. They ALL knew everyone was juiced. It simply came down to who got caught.

Please read the following...I heard this from more than one athelete: If only one athlete was using steroids they would be so far in front of everyone else in that event....it would be obvious to anyone!

But when it comes down to the 100th or 1000th of a second, and you say..THAT athlete was juiced..well the 9 guys/women 1/1000th of a second behind...they were most likely on it too!

But no one thinks of that!~

You cannot have the entire field behind you in less than 4/1000th of a second and say..UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.

Obviousley they're all on it...only that GUY/WOMAN got caught.

DIck Pound in his position needs to look in the mirror. He has looked the other way for so many years I doubt he knows where his nose is. He may talk the talk...but he has looked away from performance enhancing training for so may years it is sompletely out of hand. The IOC is years behind what countries are developing. Keep in mind the communist countries do NOT have to open they're training or testing prior to a major event. It's all bullshit. And a few..like Ben..or hopefully not Lance will get caught in the media hot seat. Ben didn't deserve what he got and Lance does not either.


It's Politics...pure plain and simple.

When you look at these errors athletes make..don't forget to look at the ones behind..they are the tell tail clue as to whether it's all juice.

As to Lance..I doubt it...first..steroids would reak havoc on his previous condition of testicular cancer. Steriods as well all know..affect the testicles. Lance would have been in serious trouble before now.

Plus...with a finely honed training that Lance has..it IS entirely possible to train without sterids. The Tour de France is actually a TEAM event more than individual. The team creates openings..the team, push the lead rider, hides the lead rider..and allows the lead rifer to train for the toughest parts of the event. I believe that Lance and his team have perfected the training process to allow him to win. The other riders are there to create the opportunity for him to win.

If Lance was juiced the whole fricking field was cause they were ALL there every day. Team Lance wasn never 22 miles ahead.

Pick the event or "games..it does not matter.

These athletes take the advice of training staff. If it urns out bad..the training staff all run away leaving as we saw a Ben Johnson telling the world..I do not know...and he didn't know thye specific details. Hen was never meant to know them. He was supposed to run fater than anyone else. And, he did it. The medal should have never been stripped fom him

Anyone after 3 seconds behind would have been the best person to take BEns medal...not Carl. His Golden shoes were more than soiled before he ever stepped on the track.

Lance is innocent.

Just me unathletic 2.5 cents

 

[MarkII]

of how Armstrong tries to dupe the uniformed - one of his points is why did only 6 of his samples test positive, why not all of them? Pretty simple, Epo is only detectable about 3 days after injection. So if you shot up on Sunday and were tested on Tuesday and Friday one sample would be positive and one negative. Nice try Lance.

Trace amouts last for months...not days.

Look at the time frames.

The event is a team competition and blocking/position is allowed. If anyone was WAY ahead of the rest...your arguement has validity.

But is isn't the case.

It's a superior plan not medication that made it happen. The clue is...were the rest of them within seconds behind?

If they were...then its not an additive.

It's just expierience and good positioning which is allowed.

Plus you also have the Fench media which HATES the USA..if they get any wind of a problem..it will become a hadline even if it's not true.....so long as it cannot be substantiated at press time ...it's a HEADLINE..you can always print a retraction on page 43 in Algerian!


Before you all bust my nuts on Lance...

I'm a couch potatoe....

I look at the politics of it, not the exertion. But I also have an inside view few of you do into elite athletes, and that is the essence of my story.

 

[luckyjackson]

I'd like to believe he wasn't, but common sense says he probably was doped.

I'm not sure why people bring up the facts of his cancer, the work he's done on behalf of those with the disease, or (as Armstrong himself sadly does), the supposed animosity between Americans and French. None of those things are relevant since none of them can put EPO in a blood sample.

I believe he's probably guilty of what they're accusing him of because...

He's always been quick to sue in the past. He's backed off on that now. Why? Because he knows that closer examination of the facts can only bury his rep deeper. Armstrong is resting his argument on the fact that these damning tests did not follow testing protocol. So what? Anyone know how many times tests that do follow the protocol disagree with the results of tests like the one Armstrong just failed? Virtually never.

The whole argument about the length of time the samples was frozen is a red herring. Improper freezing might degrade a sample, but it would NEVER put EPO in a sample if it wasn't there in the first place. No one is challenging the presence of EPO in the sample. There's been talk of conspiracy and sample switching, but the majority of that has been innuendo spread by Armstrong himself.

If he did cheat, he deserves to be exposed. He's told fans he "feels sorry for the accusers because they don't dare to dream big", to imagine someone could achieve great things without cheating. If he betrayed ideals that are still important to many, or more to the point only pretended to uphold them, that would be unapardonable, and he'd deserve all the embarrassment and ignomy that could come his way.

 

[Garrett]

Lance is a cheater...

Armstrong is a cheater... at least on his first wife. After reading Lance Armstrong's War (good read) my conclusions were:

1. Lance is very competitive
2. Lance is an asshole
3. Dr. Ferrari was running the show.

I think Lance is in deep this time. There are enough people that have been close enough that have provided testimony against him. He has enough money to litigate anyone under the table (and threatens this very thing).

As for cycling being dirty, I think the intensity of the sport and the level of testing make it look worse than many others. Most North Americain sports look the other way... with ridiculous suspensions when caught. Cycling conducts searches, and has a level of testing few sports approach.

 

[Geoff]

MarkII

Great post I couldn't have said it better myself.

Throughout all of this everyone remember that these athletes are not necessarily cheating as much as walking the fine line that might balance on a knife edge, between right and wrong. They are looking to provide a peak performance and squeeze every last once of advantage.

We have a lot of Formula one fans here on this board.

Here is a question.

Do that formula one race mechanics cheat the rules in order to help their respective drivers? Of course if caught it would be instant disquailfication.

Does this make you not like the sport or have respect for the drivers?

Just a question...........Geoff