Don't Do MBA

[sara@select]

Well, everyone I know that thrived as a result of their education did not stop at an MBA- they took other related courses and networked their butts off. (cfa designations and the like)
I should also mention alot of MBA friends slaved for a few years to get the right experience down on their resume and then moved for greener pastures in the US and abroad. Much better career opportunities and salary.......though I don't think the global market is quite as open as it was a few years back.
Bottom line, keep your contacts aware of what sector you see yourself excelling in and be willing to take something that sounds ideal on paper even if the present salary isn't.
Experience is bargaining power in the real world because in an over saturated market of MBA grads only those that can grasp the concepts and rise to the top will make the $$ and even that will take time.
Good luck!

 

[Fred Zed]

Besides which, we can always get your a volunteer job on TERB if you are interested in getting some hands on corporate operations experience...hehehe.

It would look good on your resume.

 

[DenWa]

Hey...I have a bachelor's degree in English Language and Literature / Creative Writing, with a concentration in the Early Middle Ages...my life is a nightmare.

DW

 

[Troops]

The only thing i've learnt from skool is typing and counting money.

 

[homonger]

Companies in Canada do not pay for graduate degrees. When I finished school in the U.S. with my masters degree I had some job offers and I was amazed at how much some American firms were paying masters graduates.

I am not familiar with the MBA market in Canada, but here in the States I would agree with what many have said that it is a solid investment in your future and will pay off over time. We seem to be "MBA happy" in the US, and it seems to be a requirement for many companies to even consider you. I recently completed a recruiting trip where we talked to minority MBA students about summer internships for 2004, and these students haven't even started their programs yet! Granted, the fact that they are minorities does make it a slightly different story, and I don't mean to take this thread in that direction.

I would also partly agree with the viewpoint that the MBA degree doesn't really prepare you for anything. But it is meant to be a general grounding in business, not anything else. I think it can prepare one for a number of different careers, but it is definitely not to same as going to medical or law school. You still have to learn how to do your job once you get it. I also agree that there seems to be a mentality among b-school students that they are somehow entitled to make gobs of money right out of school, just because they are MBA's. That mindset is very prevalent among American MBA's, especially those who go to the top tier schools.

Back to the bummer of the reality of the fact that you feel you have gained bupkiss with your hard earned MBA, HT, I can only sympathize. I would agree with the prior observation that the weak economy isn't helping. I was lucky enough to get my MBA back in the 80's, got a good paying job, and it immediately improved my lifestyle over the paper pushing bank job I had before getting it. Hang in there, it is a definite marketplace advantage to have those letters on your resume.

 

[Wired For Sound]

Supply and demand. A MPA looses it's earning potential the more people that have it. Find some designation that is needed the market (that is rare, but in demand) and go for that. Buck the trends. Do some market research and don't do what everyone else is doing. The demand will be high and you will paid well for it.

....As for me, LOL, I'm having to upgrade to keep up with demand.

 

[i_am_good]

...MBA...

hornytime...may I enquire...
what was the focus of your MBA...finance...management...IT?...
better to have than not...
in US...it's a big deal to graduate from highschool!...illiteracy rate very high...dropout rate very high...
onwards and upwards...get more experience...
come up with some good ideas...create your own opportunities...submit a proposal and run with it...
does you profession recognize/encourage publishing papers?...
good luck...

 

[Cinema Face]

Interesting…

I’m considering going for my MBA. I’ve always considered it an over-rated degree but now I find myself seriously considering it.

I’m an IT professional who up to a few months ago had a great job. Unfortunately, I found myself a victim of outsourcing. Now, I find it tough as hell to find a job. There has definitely been a contraction of the IT job market with too many IT people for not enough jobs. I’ve found that as I get older, it’s harder to keep up with the technology. I worked for 5 years as an IT manager and I found myself doing more strategic, big picture stuff and less hands on. Now, I find I'm not on the edge like I used to be.

I thought that a business degree will help broaden my horizons. A combination of a business and technical background would be a good combination. I’ve know people who are strong technically but don’t know squat about business. Similarly, I’ve know successful business types don’t know the technical stuff that they sell or use. I’ve met very few people good at both. I think that would give me an edge.

I hope that I’m not fooling myself that once I graduate I won’t be in the same situation I’m in now, where there’s an over-supply of graduates for the demand.

 

[iam0234]

An MBA without a solid working experience is more like an expensive business degree. In terms of real educational value, MBA is not much more than an expensive business undergrad, and many business undergrads are either under-employed or are still looking for jobs.

But an MBA with credible job experience is an awesome combination.

This is why the more elite MBA schools would only admit people who has got a few years of working experience under their belt. Many of their students are actually employed at the time when they get into the program; they are merely taking a sabbatical leave from their jobs. Many top consulting or investment firms in fact have a policy that all employees must eventually get a master degree before a long-term employment will be granted. These firms will pay their employees to go to MBA schools, and guarantee them higher paid positions upon completion. Hence, the impressive statistics re the value of MBA. The more elite schools would also have the privilege of picking those students with the kind of experience that, if coupled with an MBA degree, the market would go after.

I¡¦m sure you have learned at Schlitz that investment return should be measured by its long-term yields only. LOL. Knowledge is never too costly to have ¡V should it be $29 for a book, $290 for our sexual edu with our hobby, or $29K for an Master degree (which will become handy). Your investment is well worth the money; it will pay off in the long run, if not immediately.

 

[Cinema Face]

But an MBA with credible job experience is an awesome combination.

Thank you iam0234.

This is exactly why I'm thinking about the MBA. I have the credible job experience.

 

[i_am_good]

...strategize...

hey, Cinema Face...
what about a Masters in Computer Science?...
AWESOME degree...thesis based...well respected...

 

[james t kirk]

I also have very credible job experience also and have been thinking about the MBA route . Part time at Rotman would be perfect since I need an income. I was figuring on taking one or two courses a term until completion. Executive MBA is just too expensive.

I am curious if anyone knows how much weight is put on the GMAT verses University Grades.

I graduated from University in 91 and have been working in my field ever since.

I know i can ace the GMAT, but given that my undergrad was in Engineering, (and I don't know ANYONE who graduated with a B+ average out of Engineering), I don't think you can compare my marks to someone who coasted by in Geography. (No offence to all you geography students out there.)

If one aces the GMAT, has good experience, good references, can one expect to be admitted to the partime programme???

 

[submissivedave]

Why, why a MBA instead of a MA? Shouldn't one learn for the sake of learning and nothing else?

If you do a MBA thinking about the money you will earn, then, I must say that you don't really want to know anything about what it means to have that designation. What you are really after is the actual title and the money it can bring in ...
If income is the prime motivator, then why not get a shot at CA, CGA, CMA, CFA designations and some other stuff the Canadian Securities Institute offers? I know that many of my fathers's friends are stockbrokers and they make shit loads of money and they don't even have an undergrad.

 

[maverick]

Why, why a MBA instead of a MA? Shouldn't one learn for the sake of learning and nothing else? ...

sd, a MA is pretty much a dead end degree outside academia. and MBA is for business. it is a practical degree. since you only just graduated, i let you down easy. money is the driving force for most people. once you get into the work force and start paying for a house and taking care of your family, you realize that idealism gives away to realism. unless, you have unlimited financial resources, learning for the sake of learning is a noble but unrealistic idea.

in NA, the MBA is academic degree granted by universities and colleges. CA, CMA, CFA, CPA, CGA are professional designation granted by professional associations. having designations and degrees do not dictate how much you are worth. they only set you apart from the rest of the field. it's up to you to prove your worth.

and in this world, you will find it's not what you know, rather it's who you know.

these degrees and designations are should be used as a sign of your determination, knowledge, skills and potential . they are not a guarantee of career or monetary success.

mav

 

[jano]

Someone once told me that if I choose to do an MBA, I should make sure I get it from a top-tier school. Otherwise it can turn out to be a very expensive low return piece of paper. He said the contacts you will make at a top tier school will do more for your career than the paper because the coursework is basically the same at all of the B schools.

In short Harvard MBA pays off way more than that from No-name university.

 

[iam0234]

Jano, what you said is true. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that it applies to both MBA and undergrad. I know a young lady whose parents had sold their home to send her to Wharton undergrad and this had paid off big times, relative to those who graduated from the no-name schools. B schools is a very much a celerbrity business where brand name counts the most.

I'm a CA myself and it has worked well for me. For those who don't mind the "perceived" boredom of the profession, it is not a bad alternative to MBA. But here too, it is preferrable to have apprenticeship with the bigger CA firms - it gives you the opportunity to see some sophiscated operations (like Enron, lol) as well as the opportunity to land more lucrative positions with the bigger clients and internally. CA, like MBA and other professional designations, provides a key to open many doors in the business world. What you want to do with your career from thereon is in your own hands. I no longer practise the CA stuff, instead I'm an expensive messanger boy (otherwise known as "executive") spending most of my office hours hobbying and reading this post.

 

[someone]

That may be so, but but there seems to be a perception in the UK that North American degrees are not equivalent to theirs ( and I stress perception ). Many professors in the UK only hold Masters degrees, at my old school in the UK there were some professors with Bachelors degrees only

When it comes to graduate degrees like MAs and PhDs I agree that UK and North American degrees are not the same. I have worked in countries that had the British type of university system and UK graduate degrees tend to be reseach only (e.g. their PhDs). Thus if somone can get publications after their BA or MA there is is nothing for them to gain by going on to PhDs as they have already shown they have some research ability. However, they tend not to have the breath of those who have taken North American graduate degrees that involve learning more than one's disertation topic.

BTW, my above comment is not ment to be a comment on MBAs as MBAs tend to be more of a collection of undergraduate level courses given graduate course numbers (Earlier in my life I had some experience tutoring York MBA students so I am somewhat familiar with the program). I don't mean any offense to people who have MBAs when I say this. As someone else said, they are ment to be "practical" degrees and not really "academic" degrees.

 

[submissivedave]

Maybe because of my idealism, I am rather attracted to a high quality faculty then to a well kown school. I would in fact go to a certain school because of a certain faculty member. Being unemployed, I have time to look for a grad. school. And in my personal selection process, I would see who's where and that would most likely determine where I end up ...

I mean, Nietzsche once taught at Basel Univerity. What the fuck is Basel University? My point is, its facultie that makes the school good. Furthermore, I think that you are more likely to find faculties with more energy in less well kown schools because the faculties at elite schools already think they are "all that" and get lazy. Its the same thing with retiring profs who don't really give a shit anymore. Even when I did my thesis, I did so much research on who to do it with. I made sure that my advisor was into what I am into and still has the flame for teaching as well as energy to share his/her knowledge ...

One of my fantasies is to be on vacation where I accidently stumble upon an old temple. I walk inside and find an old guy with really fucked up clothes sweeping the leaves off the courtyard floor. I approach him and say hi and ask him what's up. He gives me a very "good" answer which I can't really grasp but I find an instant attraction to this man ... so, I stay with him and chat with him, sweeping th floor for him, eating very humble foods and dress in very humble fabrics, it turns out that I have been with him for 20 years or so ... and when I leave the damn place I have enough knowledge to embarass a professor of philosophy ... This old man is what I am looking for in a prof. when I do my grad. shit ...

I once told this fantasy to a previous teacher and he told me that he found this person in Plato ... as of now, I have not found him yet ...

Anyhow, I had a prof. who was a student of Alan Bloom back in his U of T days and my prof. said that he was just a show. Coincidently, another prof. of mine was a student of Rosen and he said Rosen was a very very good teacher and was not "just a show" like Bloom. The interesting thing is that both Rosen and Bloom were students of Leo Struass and Bloom is one of Strauss's more well known students. But yet, the guy is just gay man ...

Another words, I am attracted to teachers with character ... and that's the same with my preferences for women as well as SPs and friends in general ...

 

[mr. x]

I mean, Nietzsche once taught at Basel Univerity. What the fuck is Basel University?

its where they teach the management secrets of Basel Fawlty!

 

[DenWa]

Dave - your whole life is a fantasy...you may end up with enough knowledge to embarass a professor of philosophy, but you'd still be broke and working for your dad. Wake up and get real. Do you believe your own bullshit? You're starting to sound as loony as Alien...