Don't hold your breath...legalizing prostitution

[TeasePlease]

Its about to get a lot worse!




From the CPC's 2013 policy debate agenda:

Canada’s Social Fabric – 1-09-194 - EN
EDA – Kildonan-St Paul
Section M - 97 – Sexual Exploitation in Canada (MODIFICATION)


Amended:
i) The Conservative Party rejects the normalization of prostitution and declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought and sold; and
ii) The Conservative Party will develop a comprehensive strategy to address and prevent the legalization of keeping a common bawdy house, living off the avails of prostitution, and communication for the purpose of prostitution.



i) The Conservative Party rejects the concept of legalizing the purchase of sex;
ii) The Conservative Party declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought or sold; and
iii) The Conservative Party of Canada shall develop a Canada specific plan to target the purchasers of sex and human trafficking markets through criminalizing the purchase of sex as well as the acts of any third party attempting to profit from the purchase of sex.



http://www.cpcconvention.ca/wp-cont...TIONS-1-82-EN-FINAL-VERSION-May-17-2013-3.pdf



Looks like they are quite content to let the Bedford decision stand and simply use the opportunity to introduce U.S./Swedish style laws bymaking the purchase of sex illegal.


Now I'm in a quandary. There are many other CPC policy positions that I actually very much agree with and support!

 

[oldjones]

Its about to get a lot worse!
From the CPC's 2013 policy debate agenda:

Canada’s Social Fabric – 1-09-194 - EN
EDA – Kildonan-St Paul
Section M - 97 – Sexual Exploitation in Canada (MODIFICATION)


Amended:
i) The Conservative Party rejects the normalization of prostitution and declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought and sold; and
ii) The Conservative Party will develop a comprehensive strategy to address and prevent the legalization of keeping a common bawdy house, living off the avails of prostitution, and communication for the purpose of prostitution.



i) The Conservative Party rejects the concept of legalizing the purchase of sex;
ii) The Conservative Party declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought or sold; and
iii) The Conservative Party of Canada shall develop a Canada specific plan to target the purchasers of sex and human trafficking markets through criminalizing the purchase of sex as well as the acts of any third party attempting to profit from the purchase of sex.



http://www.cpcconvention.ca/wp-cont...TIONS-1-82-EN-FINAL-VERSION-May-17-2013-3.pdf



Looks like they are quite content to let the Bedford decision stand and simply use the opportunity to introduce U.S./Swedish style laws bymaking the purchase of sex illegal.


Now I'm in a quandary. There are many other CPC policy positions that I actually very much agree with and support!

So support them. The stupid fallacy too many of us accept without thought is that we must support the party and the politicians who share what positions we have in common with them.

Nonsense. That simply feeds and strengthens the thoughtless pandering to the broadest base that this sort of stuff represents.

Refuse to be lumped into someone else's statistical averages.

 

[oldjones]

Its about to get a lot worse!
From the CPC's 2013 policy debate agenda:

Canada’s Social Fabric – 1-09-194 - EN
EDA – Kildonan-St Paul
Section M - 97 – Sexual Exploitation in Canada (MODIFICATION)

Amended:

]i) The Conservative Party rejects the normalization of prostitution and declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought and sold; and
ii) The Conservative Party will develop a comprehensive strategy to address and prevent the legalization of keeping a common bawdy house, living off the avails of prostitution, and communication for the purpose of prostitution.

i) The Conservative Party rejects the concept of legalizing the purchase of sex;
ii) The Conservative Party declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought or sold; and
iii) The Conservative Party of Canada shall develop a Canada specific plan to target the purchasers of sex and human trafficking markets through criminalizing the purchase of sex as well as the acts of any third party attempting to profit from the purchase of sex.

http://www.cpcconvention.ca/wp-cont...TIONS-1-82-EN-FINAL-VERSION-May-17-2013-3.pdf
Looks like they are quite content to let the Bedford decision stand and simply use the opportunity to introduce U.S./Swedish style laws bymaking the purchase of sex illegal.

Now I'm in a quandary. There are many other CPC policy positions that I actually very much agree with and support!

So support those policies. The stupid fallacy too many of us accept without thought is that we must support the party and the politicians who share what positions we have in common with them.

Nonsense. That simply feeds and strengthens the thoughtless pandering to the broadest, crassest base that this sort of stuff represents. Citizen driven politics isn't about voting and going back to sleep; it's about constantly arguing and debating so the pols are forced to as well. That's our only effective tool; it's the only way we can avoid this sort of crap being buried in the back pages of some thousand page budget bill rushed through before Parliament's shut down again for foto-op tours and fundraisers featuring ex-media senators.

Refuse to be lumped into their predicted and predictable statistical averages. Keep them scared and opposed. Make them work for every single vote, make the guy next door as hard for the pols to count on as you are.

What's truly sad about the wording these Conservative Policy delegates arrived at is that it ignores the fact that the purchase of sex is legal and has been for quite some time in this country. I can't tell whether they are really that ignorant, or whether this is another attempt to pander to the ignorant assumptions of their base. After all, they'd actually have to explain a proposal to make buying and selling illegal.

"Huh? So what you're saying is, right now there's no law against it? But I seen busts on Cops …, an' what about that Spitzer guy? That's just the States?, Geez, you coulda said so sooner."
----------------

PS: I hope you don't think I misrepresented your excerpt trying to use TERB tools to sort it out. No way to change the default 'Posted' to 'moved' or 'proposed' which would have been better.

 

[Butler1000]

I very much doubt this will affect my vote in the next election.

The simple reason being no matter which party forms the gov't most likely will enact the same laws/policies. This is an easy win legislation for any of them.

And it sucks......

 

[TeasePlease]

I don't think that justifying criminalizing the purchasing of sex will be a big challenge. Many already assume that it is.

As for the wording, I wouldn't assume that it's ignorant of the status quo. I would give them the benefit if the doubt. I would assume that they know, and that the proposed policy is specifically intended to make selling sex illegal. That's why I say it's about to get much worse for hobbyists

I very much support the proposed firearms and aboriginal policies reform

I've already drafted a letter to the PM and relevant ministers to state my viewpoints (for and against)

 

[Samurai Joey]

Before any of us on TERB start to react to this part of the Conservative Party's 2013 policy debate, it's important to keep in mind that the PDF document you attached is only a policy statement -- there is still a long way to go before any laws get changed.

Second, nothing in the change in the amendment really changes the Conservative Party's basic views regarding prostitution; the party and its leadership have always been consistent in stating they were opposed to prostitution and to the legalization/decriminalization of prostitution (it's also worth keeping in mind that the Conservatives were always consistent in being openly opposed to same-sex marriage, but the current Conservative government have done nothing to change current laws on that front). The question then becomes what would the party do in terms of legislation and to what extent they will make this issue a priority.

My view has always been that if criminalizing prostitution even further was that much of a priority for the Conservatives, they would already have done so long ago even when they were leading a minority government, for the simple reason that no other party (not the Liberals, the NDP or the Bloc) would have stood up and opposed it with any vigour. Personally, I don't see any major changes coming forth.

 

[explorerzip]

Agencies and indy's already operate very discreetly, so I doubt anything will change even if all aspects of prostitution are banned.

 

[MattRoxx]

I could not vote for a party that advertises they want to throw me in jail.
As usual the Conservatives create policy based on flawed or no research or facts, and go off the wrong assumption that every prostitute is being forced into it.

Also, this clause is problematic:

The Conservative Party declares that human beings are not objects to be enslaved, bought or sold;

But hockey players are bought and sold and traded all the time, and are only used as physical objects as long as their bodies are operating within the parameters established by the employer. Also like service providers, they usually have an incredibly short career.
http://www.quanthockey.com/Distributions/CareerLengthGP.php

Agencies and indy's already operate very discreetly, so I doubt anything will change even if all aspects of prostitution are banned.

Prostitution is currently legal. The Harper gov't wants to make it illegal.

i) The Conservative Party rejects the concept of legalizing the purchase of sex;

This would be a very big change.

 

[Toronto`s Finest]

Here as in the U.S. the conservative parties are increasingly becoming outdated & out of touch esp. with a growing immigrant population ..... except for those extreemists

 

[MattRoxx]

great post. Big change indeed. What will the NHL do when this becomes law? LoL

The could become MMA fighters...oh wait no, those people are also signed to contracts and exploited for their physical assets in an environment which will routinely cause gross bodily harm...

I guess they could train to be prison guards because the longer the Harper gov't is in power, the more people will end up in prison.

 

[Samurai Joey]

I could not vote for a party that advertises they want to throw me in jail.
As usual the Conservatives create policy based on flawed or no research or facts, and go off the wrong assumption that every prostitute is being forced into it.

Also, this clause is problematic:

But hockey players are bought and sold and traded all the time, and are only used as physical objects as long as their bodies are operating within the parameters established by the employer. Also like service providers, they usually have an incredibly short career.
http://www.quanthockey.com/Distributions/CareerLengthGP.php

Prostitution is currently legal. The Harper gov't wants to make it illegal.

This would be a very big change.

The point I was trying to make was that the Conservatives (or at least their official policy at any rate) have always wanted to make prostitution illegal, and they have made consistent statements to that effect for years, not just in this year's policy statements. And the Conservatives have had plenty of opportunity to further criminalize prostitution during their long tenure in government and have chosen not to pursue the matter in any serious way, in spite of public statements to the contrary. (And keep in mind, this is just a policy statement, not legislation or fait accompli law of the land)

Exactly how this year is any different from past years is difficult for me to see. At any rate, I am not in support of the Harper government or the Conservatives for plenty of other reasons, not just their stance on prostitution.

 

[explorerzip]

I could not vote for a party that advertises they want to throw me in jail.
As usual the Conservatives create policy based on flawed or no research or facts, and go off the wrong assumption that every prostitute is being forced into it.

Also, this clause is problematic:

But hockey players are bought and sold and traded all the time, and are only used as physical objects as long as their bodies are operating within the parameters established by the employer. Also like service providers, they usually have an incredibly short career.
http://www.quanthockey.com/Distributions/CareerLengthGP.php

Prostitution is currently legal. The Harper gov't wants to make it illegal.

This would be a very big change.

The big problem with this issue is that prostitution is not defined within the Criminal Code of Canada. The Criminal Code does not explicitly say that it is illegal for someone to exchange sexual services for consideration. That does not mean prostitution is legal necessarily. It just means that it's tolerated for now. We're in this kind of odd legal grey zone where some cities have licensed massage parlours and escort agencies, basically making prostitution semi-legal.

IMO this issue is one that no party will touch so no one has bothered to actually define it in the Criminal Code. The other problem is that if the act of exchanging sex for money becomes illegal, the industry will just go underground like it does in other jurisdictions. The law of supply and demand will override the law of the land.

 

[TeasePlease]

That's the point. What is now NOT illegal will be made so under the proposed policy position. This is exactly what many agency owners feared would happen when the Bedford case was first raised. They were PISSED and wanted things left alone.

As for those who poo-poo the CPCs ability to make it happen, that is precisely why the CSSA issued and ultimatum yesterday to reform the firearms act...because it can be done within the Cons remaining agenda and timetable as majority.

 

[freedomlover]

The Conservative Party rejects the concept of legalizing the purchase of sex;

So dating, and even marriage, will be illegal under the new Conservative platform?

 

[NHFL]

before any of us on terb start to react to this part of the conservative party's 2013 policy debate, it's important to keep in mind that the pdf document you attached is only a policy statement -- there is still a long way to go before any laws get changed.

Second, nothing in the change in the amendment really changes the conservative party's basic views regarding prostitution; the party and its leadership have always been consistent in stating they were opposed to prostitution and to the legalization/decriminalization of prostitution (it's also worth keeping in mind that the conservatives were always consistent in being openly opposed to same-sex marriage, but the current conservative government have done nothing to change current laws on that front). The question then becomes what would the party do in terms of legislation and to what extent they will make this issue a priority.

My view has always been that if criminalizing prostitution even further was that much of a priority for the conservatives, they would already have done so long ago even when they were leading a minority government, for the simple reason that no other party (not the liberals, the ndp or the bloc) would have stood up and opposed it with any vigour. Personally, i don't see any major changes coming forth.

^^^this^^^

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Time to vote these c*nts out of office

 

[explorerzip]

The Conservative Party rejects the concept of legalizing the purchase of sex;

So dating, and even marriage, will be illegal under the new Conservative platform?

Good point. Technically speaking, any kind consideration (preparing taxes, renovating a basement, cleaning the toilet, etc.) exchanged for sex would be illegal. Totally absurd, but we live in absurd times.

 

[afterhours]

Good point. Technically speaking, any kind consideration (preparing taxes, renovating a basement, cleaning the toilet, etc.) exchanged for sex would be illegal. Totally absurd, but we live in absurd times.

meanwhile USA and a bunch of other countries have these laws since time immemorial and no one considers it absurd.

 

[oldjones]

meanwhile USA and a bunch of other countries have these laws since time immemorial and no one considers it absurd.

Many may not, but I have considered them absurd laws since I was old enough to think.

 

[ig-88]

meanwhile USA and a bunch of other countries have these laws since time immemorial and no one considers it absurd.

there are plenty of americans who are against prostitution laws (jesse ventura, for example, wrote about amsterdam in one of his books)

the problem is that no matter how right you may be, it boils down to votes and perception

in the minds of most people, prostitution = street walkers, drugs, pimps, etc.