Drug injection clinics opening in Toronto

[Galseigin]

Are you ok with it? Will it be bad for business? Is it immoral?
They didn't mention Parkdale which I thought was a drug infested area.

A report released Monday by Toronto’s medical officer of health recommends three locations for supervised injection services.
The sites are the existing public health building on Victoria St. next to Yonge-Dundas Square, at the Queen West-Central Toronto Community Health Centre and the South Riverdale Community Health Centre.

The city’s medical officer of health is outlining the implementation plan for the sites, to be integrated into existing health services, at a news conference Monday.
“These are essentially preventable deaths and we must do more to save the lives of these vulnerable members of our community,” Dr. David McKeown said. “Supervised injection services . . . (are) one important measure to help prevent these deaths.”

At an unrelated news conference Monday, Mayor John Tory said he hopes a debate over supervised injection sites will be “rational” and avoid “emotional” arguments.
“Obviously this is a public safety and a public health issue, and I look forward to seeing the report,” Tory told reporters. “This is a consultation that I’m going to be looking at with very keen interest to see that what are very substantial public health and public safety issues are properly addressed in coming to whatever decision we come to.”

Tory’s comments stopped short of actively endorsing supervised injection services as the city’s medical officer of health, the board of health and community advocates have pushed for their creation.
Ahead of a public consultation process now set to begin, Tory said he has not made up his mind on “what the right thing to do is.”

“Clearly we have to do something in addition to what we’re presently doing,” Tory said, citing the number of recent overdose deaths.
Dr. David McKeown’s report draws on earlier statements that drug overdose deaths — which rose to an all-time high of 206 in 2013 — are a “significant public health issue.”
Tory said there is a lot of misinformation about safe injection sites and “there is some legitimate concerns.” He did not elaborate on what those concerns are.

Councillor Joe Cressy, chair of the Toronto Drug Strategy Implementation Panel, earlier told the Star that its time for the city to create supervised injection services, saying they positively impact the communities they are in by eliminating drug use from public spaces while preventing further deaths.
“We have a responsibility and a capacity to act and we should,” he said. “We needed these programs yesterday and I hope we’ll be able to have them open and saving lives as quickly as possible.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...-debate-about-supervised-injection-sites.html

 

[Galseigin]

I don't know how true this is, but a caller phoned in Agar's show this morning and said his brother lives in an areas in Vancouver where they've
put an injection site.
The caller's brother said crime has tripled, he won't go out after dark and even the police are avoiding these areas now.
I wonder how true this is. Is that what Tory meant when he talked about some "legitimate concerns"?
I hope that the Toronto people looked at what happened in Vancouver to see how it worked out.
That would be too logical though.

Not according to Insite in Vancouver: "Likewise, a large body of scientific evidence shows that Insite is meeting its objectives. Peer-reviewed studies involving dozens of researchers from Canada, Australia, Britain and the U.S. demonstrate clearly that Insite does not increase crime or perpetuate active drug use".

Un overview of Insite ten years later:

http://supervisedinjection.vch.ca/media-centre/an-overview-of-insite---10-years-later

 

[AdamH]

I don't know how true this is, but a caller phoned in Agar's show this morning and said his brother lives in an areas in Vancouver where they've
put an injection site.
The caller's brother said crime has tripled, he won't go out after dark and even the police are avoiding these areas now.
I wonder how true this is. Is that what Tory meant when he talked about some "legitimate concerns"?
I hope that the Toronto people looked at what happened in Vancouver to see how it worked out.
That would be too logical though.

Based on what I understand, the local BIAs (Business Improvement Associations) who once disapproved of the sites in Vancouver, are now heavily in favour of the sites. I don't think they'd be in favour of them if they increased crime in their neighborhoods.

 

[Twister]

Harm reduction is helpful, but I don't know if I would want one of the clinics near a property of mine.

 

[SkyRider]

Harm reduction is helpful, but I don't know if I would want one of the clinics near a property of mine.

"Safe" injection sounds like an oxymoron.

Anyway, one of the callers to CTV NEWS yesterday said that has has to pay for her diabetes needles but drug addicts get their needles for free.

 

[oldjones]

"Safe" injection sounds like an oxymoron.

Anyway, one of the callers to CTV NEWS yesterday said that has has to pay for her diabetes needles but drug addicts get their needles for free.

Aren't hospitals safe injection sites? So where's the oxymoron in the term 'safe injection'?

That silliness aside, clearly streets, alleys and underpasses are unsafe injection sites; is it a better use of our public health money to repeatedly send ambulances there? Or coroner's vans to pick up the bodies?

As for the diabetic caller, I'd bet if she demonstrated the same level of poverty as users of street drugs, she too would get her needles free. Users with incomes don't shoot up in alleys and their safe injection sites are their homes.

 

[TeeJay]

Safe injection sites are a joke
Those who have voted yes have obviously never visited Vancouver

 

[Smallcock]

Bad idea.

Not in my neighborhood please.

This is a move they will regret.

 

[SkyRider]

Safe injection sites are a joke

That was my point. Injections are inherently unsafe.

 

[d_jedi]

I'm of a mixed opinion on this. Some drugs are inherently harmful so to call an injection of these drugs "safe" is a misnomer. OTOH, drug addiction is clearly a medical problem and should be treated as such.
To that end, a clean needle is better than a dirty one. Medical supervision to prevent/treat overdose is better than shooting up in a back alley.

But as a medical treatment, "safe" injection sites don't get to the root of the problem. They don't treat/cure the addiction, which ought to be the ultimate goal. They're a half-measure at best, and ultimately that's unsatisfying.
I also have concern that these places may encourage, normalize, and perpetuate drug use. These types of fears may be overblown, but are certainly conceivable (ex. could a "safe" injection site encourage someone to "try" drugs?)
And I certainly don't want a place like this in my "backyard".

I don't know what the solution is. This is not a black and white issue that proponents/opponents of these places make it out to be.

 

[Galseigin]

I'm of a mixed opinion on this. Some drugs are inherently harmful so to call an injection of these drugs "safe" is a misnomer. OTOH, drug addiction is clearly a medical problem and should be treated as such.
To that end, a clean needle is better than a dirty one. Medical supervision to prevent/treat overdose is better than shooting up in a back alley.

But this is all these sites are meant to be is 'Harm reduction". They're not treatment, although some people did get treatment through these sites. Its just a place to have addicts shoot up in a safer environment, with clean needles. It helps stop the spread of diseases.
To the person that mentioned Vancouver the East side was bad before the injection site, its not that the injection site has created drug addicts.

 

[Anynym]

But this is all these sites are meant to be is 'Harm reduction". They're not treatment, although some people did get treatment through these sites. Its just a place to have addicts shoot up in a safer environment, with clean needles. It helps stop the spread of diseases.
To the person that mentioned Vancouver the East side was bad before the injection site, its not that the injection site has created drug addicts.

Which emphasizes the point: the only way such a site is the least bit helpful is if the density of the population "shooting up" is already extremely high. Without that precondition being met, the statistical probability of such a site saving even one life is very low.

But if so many drug users in a city are concentrated into a small area, conditions are not amenable to get the junkies on a healthier path.

Insite will continue to play politics, but they are not helping people.

 

[DeadFish]

attracting all dug addicts to one or a couple of sites, will help create pockets to manage/enforce drug users/dealers.
you can keep your kids away from such pockets, hence providing a safer environment for them.
This will also reduce the spread of blood related infections such as HIV, Hep B, Hep C among other diseases, therefore in theory reducing the burden on healthcare.
Drug related deaths will go down too and hopefully scientist will find it easier to conduct surveys and gather intel on addiction and other disease therefore helping society.
I agree, if its in your backyard, then this is an issue as it will reduce the value of your dwelling, create an unsafe environment for your kids and perhaps make an area more prone to crime.
maybe, if this facility is in a isolated area, with no housing within 1km then perhaps that would be ideal.

 

[jcpro]

Of course we should have harm reducing strategies. We cannot prevent all of the deaths, but we can prevent some and reduce spread of diseases. I know of at least two agency girls who fatally ODed in the last 12 months, for example. The war on drugs folly and sweeping the victims under the carpet and pretending the deaths are not all around us really need to stop.

 

[fuji]

So long as it is located on the Bridle Path, I'm ok with it.

 

[K Douglas]

I support the idea of safe injection sites. As long as it's combined with a strategy to help individuals get clean, both physically and mentally.

 

[Boss Nass]

Safe injection sites are a joke
Those who have voted yes have obviously never visited Vancouver

I have a friend who shuttles back and forth from there every few weeks. He says they work fine.

 

[TeeJay]

I have a friend who shuttles back and forth from there every few weeks. He says they work fine.

Ask him to take some pics of the streets around them next time
Trust me they aint fine



As to the idea of a safe injection, there really is no such thing
Most illegal drugs are far more dangerous for you than basics like weed
And I have always been of the mind that if they insist on allowing people to shoot up they should help these people off drugs at same time
Simply saying come in & get high is just encouraging it

 

[SchlongConery]

Ask him to take some pics of the streets around them next time
Trust me they aint fine



As to the idea of a safe injection, there really is no such thing
Most illegal drugs are far more dangerous for you than basics like weed
And I have always been of the mind that if they insist on allowing people to shoot up they should help these people off drugs at same time
Simply saying come in & get high is just encouraging it

That is a very implied knee jerk reaction based on your preconception that continued drug addition is a choice that these weak addicts have any chance to overcome before they die from an OD or contracting hep C or HIV etc.

Sure, in a world of unicorns and cotton candy everyone would have a good job, come from a good family, have no mental issues, never had been abused or had trauma or failure in their lie.... but that is not the world outside of your nice suburban life.

People end u at the very bottom of society for may reasons and many end up horribly addicted to seriously dangerous drugs. You telling them to "smarten up" or telling them that drugs are bad only has an effect on YOU thinking you have any sort of influence. Whereas you are impotent in as having any influence.

These drug addicts will continue to inject dangerous drugs using dirty needles in Allan Gardens and behind peoples houses and business' and then discard the used syringes in the grass, shrubs etc. And another druggie will pick it up to use it with predictable results.

These are not recreational, discretionary users. These are people whose lives have seriously degenerated to almost as low as they can go.

What do you want to do with them?

1. Go on pretending that if you do nothing that allowing them to continue to inject in public places does hurt anyone?

2. Round them all up and "get them help"? Sounds so nice and patronizing. Except when you realize the our already way over budget city, and provincial services are already stretched to the limit such that drug addicts who WANT HELP can't even get it. So what do you think the chances of success are after spending $30k on a homeless drug user who is so far gone to be actually a lost cause ?

3. Wave your sanctimonious finger and tut-tut that "they" should do "something" . Meaning the government txt you and guys like you always whine that you want to stop wasting money.


How about simply giving these poor unfortunately addicts some sanitary location to inject the drugs THEY WILL INJECT IN A PARK OR SOMEONE"S BACKYARD ANYWAYS?

You really think that someone who is not a drug user, or is maybe on the fence over becoming one will see he "Safe Injection Clinic" as some sort of cool party place to hag out if they just start trying to use drugs?

LOL!!!

People start drugs for many reasons. More than you and I cn even begin to imagine. But once they start, it is an incredibly difficult , if not impossible addition nd lifestyle to escape.

Death is usually the escape.

For the cost of renting a vacant storefront, a few thousand $0.50 insulin syringes and some basic staff for may $30k a month, it seems like a bargain f we can prevent a few of them from developing hepatitis or HIV which is much more expensive to treat a single person. If you have no sense of humanity, you gotta like the numbers!

 

[SchlongConery]

Ask him to take some pics of the streets around them next time
Trust me they aint fine

And they weren't fine before. Tae a walk around east of the Jarvis/Church over to Parliament area , north of Queen. Tell me what you think.