EE vs. GFE
- Thread starter Francesca22
- Start date
Duh!!!!
Gosh oh my.... looks like franky needs a brain check. Ha ha that makes perfect sense. So fair to say it means, Erotic Experience???? Extreme Experience- euphoric? *laughing* naww that doesn't fit. Oh and thanks eh!!!!
Gosh oh my.... looks like franky needs a brain check. Ha ha that makes perfect sense. So fair to say it means, Erotic Experience???? Extreme Experience- euphoric? *laughing* naww that doesn't fit. Oh and thanks eh!!!!
FPS on the side hehehehe
*LAUGHING* oh my..... woweeeee. So miss franky, whos NEVER at a loss for words- doesn't know what to say, imagine!!!!!!!
*LAUGHING* oh my..... woweeeee. So miss franky, whos NEVER at a loss for words- doesn't know what to say, imagine!!!!!!!
calloway said:
I find EE's and French Canadians are great examples of the kind of GFE I enjoy mosted based on "old" definitions of GFE. But I also enjoy communicating in good English with intelligent women, so that is frustrating with the EE's or FC's.
I also tend to like taller slim, more European type women, thus the additional EE attaction for me.
I believe I was one of the first to coin and use the phrase GFE way back before there was much of a web - there was the alt.sex.prosititution newsgroup which we read by packet readers at the amazing speed of 120 cps (without a k) and it took many minutes to download a single message.
Then there was the old Prodigy boards on those very slow dial ups long before Yahoo or many websites. Then websites developed and I first coded libchrist.com having to know raw html code, not the lazy way today...although I would never want to go back to hand coding html.
Back in those days we respected providers and would never think of having unhealthy bareback oral or any kind of unhealthy sex. And this was before the HIV scares (which isn't really much risk in heterosexual sexwork, but lots of other nasty STD's are). Many of us seek the GFE experience which means a real relationship for the moment with a sincere women who enjoys the experience, not just mechanical sex.
But in the last few years the idea of GFE has changed and often relates to doing unhealthy acts since that is what you do with a girlfriend where you know each others health and std status and trust each other.
Girl Friend Experience - Short definition
What it means to each person is a little different, but to most guys it means a provider that makes the experience seem unrushed, enjoyable, fun, relaxing and more like a "real date than a quick commercial encounter. In practice, though, it seems to depend on chemistry, personality and mutual expectations, as YMMV ("your mileage may vary") for both the provider and client. A general description might be: a session that facilitates the experience, mutual cuddling/foreplay, mutual kissing, mutual oral sex (covered or uncovered--depending), and involves either the illusion or reality of passion on the part of the provider. Most of all its about being a sincere mutually desired human interaction. It is the opposite of the women being treated like a sex toy and the man an ATM machine.
Longer Discussion:
Here is my view of GFE which I realize is not shared by all, that is fine, its just one view:
To me, GFE is "Girl Friend Experience" like renting a girl friend for the hour instead of the more cold, detached "hooker" type pro. Obviously many of us seek this GFE, not a pro like many in Nevada etc. Most importantly, a GFE is natural, not mechanical or forced. No matter what kind of play is desired it should feel like 'the real thing'.
But GFE is defined differently by different people. For me, GFE involves having an emotional and intellectual connection with a provider like you would with a real girlfriend, not just a body for physical sex. Some define it by what things a provider will do such as kiss or if they will do bareback (I don't recommend). But I've experienced very mechanical kisses and relate it more to that "connection" on a deeper level than only the body, even if only for the moment, is paid for and you may not meet her again.
Often I have heard a provider reply to the question "Are you GFE" with "You mean you want me to nag you a lot?"
I also relate to what I refer as a "universal love", which many people just don't agree with our cultures definition of "love". GFE and "love" can be for the moment, it doesn't have to result in "falling in love" that many are so afraid of. It is more like standing in love of a unique spirit of a person and seeking to express this Universal love by sensual pleasure giving touch, sensuality and sexuality. But we are taught in our culture "love" has to be exclusive and possessing another.
In the GFE I seek, I especially enjoy caring high touch intimacy, stoking, massaging, holding her, caressing her trying to relate to her inner spirit via high tender touch not a body to have sex with. Combine this GFE intimacy and sensual sexuality and I really enjoy the experience.
Continued
I also tend to like taller slim, more European type women, thus the additional EE attaction for me.
I believe I was one of the first to coin and use the phrase GFE way back before there was much of a web - there was the alt.sex.prosititution newsgroup which we read by packet readers at the amazing speed of 120 cps (without a k) and it took many minutes to download a single message.
Then there was the old Prodigy boards on those very slow dial ups long before Yahoo or many websites. Then websites developed and I first coded libchrist.com having to know raw html code, not the lazy way today...although I would never want to go back to hand coding html.
Back in those days we respected providers and would never think of having unhealthy bareback oral or any kind of unhealthy sex. And this was before the HIV scares (which isn't really much risk in heterosexual sexwork, but lots of other nasty STD's are). Many of us seek the GFE experience which means a real relationship for the moment with a sincere women who enjoys the experience, not just mechanical sex.
But in the last few years the idea of GFE has changed and often relates to doing unhealthy acts since that is what you do with a girlfriend where you know each others health and std status and trust each other.
Girl Friend Experience - Short definition
What it means to each person is a little different, but to most guys it means a provider that makes the experience seem unrushed, enjoyable, fun, relaxing and more like a "real date than a quick commercial encounter. In practice, though, it seems to depend on chemistry, personality and mutual expectations, as YMMV ("your mileage may vary") for both the provider and client. A general description might be: a session that facilitates the experience, mutual cuddling/foreplay, mutual kissing, mutual oral sex (covered or uncovered--depending), and involves either the illusion or reality of passion on the part of the provider. Most of all its about being a sincere mutually desired human interaction. It is the opposite of the women being treated like a sex toy and the man an ATM machine.
Longer Discussion:
Here is my view of GFE which I realize is not shared by all, that is fine, its just one view:
To me, GFE is "Girl Friend Experience" like renting a girl friend for the hour instead of the more cold, detached "hooker" type pro. Obviously many of us seek this GFE, not a pro like many in Nevada etc. Most importantly, a GFE is natural, not mechanical or forced. No matter what kind of play is desired it should feel like 'the real thing'.
But GFE is defined differently by different people. For me, GFE involves having an emotional and intellectual connection with a provider like you would with a real girlfriend, not just a body for physical sex. Some define it by what things a provider will do such as kiss or if they will do bareback (I don't recommend). But I've experienced very mechanical kisses and relate it more to that "connection" on a deeper level than only the body, even if only for the moment, is paid for and you may not meet her again.
Often I have heard a provider reply to the question "Are you GFE" with "You mean you want me to nag you a lot?"
I also relate to what I refer as a "universal love", which many people just don't agree with our cultures definition of "love". GFE and "love" can be for the moment, it doesn't have to result in "falling in love" that many are so afraid of. It is more like standing in love of a unique spirit of a person and seeking to express this Universal love by sensual pleasure giving touch, sensuality and sexuality. But we are taught in our culture "love" has to be exclusive and possessing another.
In the GFE I seek, I especially enjoy caring high touch intimacy, stoking, massaging, holding her, caressing her trying to relate to her inner spirit via high tender touch not a body to have sex with. Combine this GFE intimacy and sensual sexuality and I really enjoy the experience.
Continued
Continued
While there are exceptions, I find very few American providers offer this. The attitude in the U.S. is often "oh, I save all emotions for my boyfriend". This contrasts sharply with women I've met from many other cultures, European, Latin America, Asian, that seem so much more open to sharing GFE and the type of intimacy I enjoy.
The reasons are quite obvious. Most other cultures don't have the repressive sexual attitudes that we do in the U.S. Often foreign women are much more naturally open, intimate and provide easy GFE which is often totally foreign to most U.S. sexworkers. Their are of course exceptions of wonderful GFE providers in the U.S. and hard business only pro foreign women. But in my "studies" of providers in various parts of the world, my overwhelming experience is this obvious difference in cultures.
In response Caitlin a Phoenix sexworker said:
"While I have not advertized myself as GFE, that is what many of my clients have experienced. To me it is a question not of what you do, but how you do it. It definitely involves some kind of "connection," as Dave put it.
When I'm with a client, I genuinely want both of us to have a good time. I usually manage to find something (or a lot) about their personality that I like, which makes it more fun for me. GFE definitely means no clock watching, filling out the hour if he finishes early, a massage if he wants it, things like that.
A GFE may or may not include kissing. I like what CJ said about earning a kiss. If it doesn't happen on the first date, don't despair, it might happen on subsequent dates. If there is no genuine desire in me to give you a kiss, it will be mechanical. I always appreciate a client who lets me kiss him first before he kisses me.
It seems to me a GFE is rather indefinable. Everyone has a different idea about it. That emotional connection is an intangible, and there is no guarantee that you and your provider will experience it. And one needn't have a FS provider to achieve that either."
Dave says, that was a great response from Caitlin, who I thank for her input (reposted with her permission)
But not everyone wants GFE such as what one man said:
"Some guys want/like a GFE but not all us. Snuggling, holding hands, caresses ..... ugh Sorry, I want it hot and nasty."
And more wisdom from retlakk:
"Personally, I get the most pleasure out of sex when we both have a good time. I really try to turn the girl on and please her. Stroking, cuddling, kissing is all part of that, and it's surely unnatural to preserve complete emotional detachment while giving this the full attention which it deserves.
Maybe it's a question of age. I'm over 50, have had several girlfriends. I don't think I'm going to get lovesick over a sex affair. For a young man, it might be different. Yes, there is some danger of getting hooked, these girls are not called "hookers" for nothing. But treating a girl like some kind of animated rubber doll misses most of the point of making love."
So different men seek different type of providers, hot and nasty or more intimacy and that hard to define intangible GFE.
Also see related article with more wisdom from others at http://www.sexwork.com/subcontents/whymenpayGFE.html
While there are exceptions, I find very few American providers offer this. The attitude in the U.S. is often "oh, I save all emotions for my boyfriend". This contrasts sharply with women I've met from many other cultures, European, Latin America, Asian, that seem so much more open to sharing GFE and the type of intimacy I enjoy.
The reasons are quite obvious. Most other cultures don't have the repressive sexual attitudes that we do in the U.S. Often foreign women are much more naturally open, intimate and provide easy GFE which is often totally foreign to most U.S. sexworkers. Their are of course exceptions of wonderful GFE providers in the U.S. and hard business only pro foreign women. But in my "studies" of providers in various parts of the world, my overwhelming experience is this obvious difference in cultures.
In response Caitlin a Phoenix sexworker said:
"While I have not advertized myself as GFE, that is what many of my clients have experienced. To me it is a question not of what you do, but how you do it. It definitely involves some kind of "connection," as Dave put it.
When I'm with a client, I genuinely want both of us to have a good time. I usually manage to find something (or a lot) about their personality that I like, which makes it more fun for me. GFE definitely means no clock watching, filling out the hour if he finishes early, a massage if he wants it, things like that.
A GFE may or may not include kissing. I like what CJ said about earning a kiss. If it doesn't happen on the first date, don't despair, it might happen on subsequent dates. If there is no genuine desire in me to give you a kiss, it will be mechanical. I always appreciate a client who lets me kiss him first before he kisses me.
It seems to me a GFE is rather indefinable. Everyone has a different idea about it. That emotional connection is an intangible, and there is no guarantee that you and your provider will experience it. And one needn't have a FS provider to achieve that either."
Dave says, that was a great response from Caitlin, who I thank for her input (reposted with her permission)
But not everyone wants GFE such as what one man said:
"Some guys want/like a GFE but not all us. Snuggling, holding hands, caresses ..... ugh Sorry, I want it hot and nasty."
And more wisdom from retlakk:
"Personally, I get the most pleasure out of sex when we both have a good time. I really try to turn the girl on and please her. Stroking, cuddling, kissing is all part of that, and it's surely unnatural to preserve complete emotional detachment while giving this the full attention which it deserves.
Maybe it's a question of age. I'm over 50, have had several girlfriends. I don't think I'm going to get lovesick over a sex affair. For a young man, it might be different. Yes, there is some danger of getting hooked, these girls are not called "hookers" for nothing. But treating a girl like some kind of animated rubber doll misses most of the point of making love."
So different men seek different type of providers, hot and nasty or more intimacy and that hard to define intangible GFE.
Also see related article with more wisdom from others at http://www.sexwork.com/subcontents/whymenpayGFE.html
Wow, first im amazed at your ability to articulate yourself... reminds me of a report or essay with supporting facts *wink wink* I think you hit the nail on the head... most definetly. It's something indivually defined and dependant on your encounter. Hence the confusion on my part.
Someone, soon after i started asked me what my bfe was *laughing* and it took me by suprise because as a SP, your there to please... not always receptive to recieving (although i LOVE both) However, to him- his definition of GFE was being a BFE *does that make sense???* but it played into alot of things you stated and really was curious to hear what others thought- none of which are any more right then the others, or wrong. Just intrigued. So yes, thanks for your well said and thought out reply. I appreciate it alot.
Dave in Phoenix said:
his definition of GFE was being a BFE *does that make sense???*
It makes sense to me, that if the guy wants to enjoy a GF like experience for the length of the session, the guy hopes the female SP also enjoys him like a BF, even though its just for the session. But obviously the SP is also being paid to create the fantasy but since its still a real human interaction even if a paid session, ideally both people also enjoy each other for the length of the session.
However, SP will not always feel as close to the guy as they want to guy to feel close to her. This dance of fantasy vs reality can be complex as are all human relationships.
It makes sense to me, that if the guy wants to enjoy a GF like experience for the length of the session, the guy hopes the female SP also enjoys him like a BF, even though its just for the session. But obviously the SP is also being paid to create the fantasy but since its still a real human interaction even if a paid session, ideally both people also enjoy each other for the length of the session.
However, SP will not always feel as close to the guy as they want to guy to feel close to her. This dance of fantasy vs reality can be complex as are all human relationships.
Well said Dave. I feel that your definition of GFE is bang on. I have never agreed with the 'checklist' version of GFE. For me it has always been what I think of as an energy that sometimes happens during a session. You can not control it or ensure that any particular woman will be a GFE in any given session.
While, from reading your posts, I see that I myself enjoy a little more milage than you (I will accept bbbj if the circumstances are right), I can also see that the comfort level of the lady is important in whether or not I get the ever elusive GFE. ie. If the sp is not comfortable with kissing, the energy with which she kisses will not be satisfactory-so why bother. Let's find where she is comfortable and go there. I find that with this attitude my sessions are much more enjoyable and actually go further.
But I can not fake this and have to bring my honest desires, communicating them as best I can, into the session. As in a "real" relationship I must show up and be present for the time we are together. This has it's own rewards and is a skill that is transferable to my 'regular' relationships. That is, being present with a woman is (can be) just as difficult, whether or not she is a paid companion.
While, from reading your posts, I see that I myself enjoy a little more milage than you (I will accept bbbj if the circumstances are right), I can also see that the comfort level of the lady is important in whether or not I get the ever elusive GFE. ie. If the sp is not comfortable with kissing, the energy with which she kisses will not be satisfactory-so why bother. Let's find where she is comfortable and go there. I find that with this attitude my sessions are much more enjoyable and actually go further.
But I can not fake this and have to bring my honest desires, communicating them as best I can, into the session. As in a "real" relationship I must show up and be present for the time we are together. This has it's own rewards and is a skill that is transferable to my 'regular' relationships. That is, being present with a woman is (can be) just as difficult, whether or not she is a paid companion.
Thanks to both Francesca and Dave in Phoenix (feel like I've been to school after reading Dave's excellent summary).Francesca22 said:
Welcome back to Cupids Francesca!! Me (and Jillian thinks you'll do very well and will excel!!
Who said they didn't hand out beauty and brains at the same time. This lady is living proof.
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Isn't EE= Eastern Euorpean, and GFE= Girl Friend Experience....wouldn't one be a nationality, and the other an experience?
I didn't want to embarrass myself yesterday but I always thought EE = Eastern European. I think when some guys use the term, they're thinking Eastern European.The Bandit said:Isn't EE= Eastern Euorpean, and GFE= Girl Friend Experience....wouldn't one be a nationality, and the other an experience?
