France To Recognize The Palestinian State. Vive la France

[Frankfooter]

No one in that fight thought it wouldn't take decades.
Or rather, those who did were stripped of those illusions quickly.

The point is that people thought change through BDS was magical thinking until it happened.

As long as it is the preferred position of powerful external forces, though, it is going to stay alive in discussions about the issue.

The question becomes can politicians maintain power in democracies while still providing cover for Israeli actions.

They are not context and rarely relevant news updates.

Your opinion.

Which will be another extremely long fight.
But hang on, are you saying you are opposed to any federation or confederation as a solution?

As usual you are looking for a gotcha comment rather than discussion so went straight to a straw man claim.
I'd argue that unless a federation were internationally mandated and installed the genocidal side in power would not institute anything less than another version of apartheid.

And yet you keep celebrating all these countries proclaiming they recognize a separate Palestine, reinforcing the two-state idea.

Yes, because every step towards publicly censuring Israel is a step towards ending the genocide, apartheid and illegal occupation. Even if their goals are to stall action publicly stating they don't approve of the genocide is a start.

 

[Valcazar]

Please don't try to start an argument about whether Palestinian refugees still count as refugees, that's been covered by the UN and UNRWA.

The multiple UN resolutions calling for Israel to honour the right of return offer the option of 'just restitution' as an alternative.
But you're going to see what 5 million people want as restitution for 75 years of living as refugees and the theft of their homes and homeland.

You think that's going to be easier or cheaper?

Easier or cheaper than what?
I do note you've limited yourself to 5 million, though.

What do you think Israel should pay for stealing their land and homes along with 75 years of forced living as stateless refugees?
Its going to make Truth and Reconciliation look cheap, I expect.

You do understand that having a right of return and having a truth and reconciliation committee aren't the same thing, right?

 

[Frankfooter]

Which this is very similar to.

* Disband Hamas
* Ban them from power
* Release all the hostages
* Disarm completely

-- No demands on Israel.

Agreed, Israel, for instance, is the side that has held way more hostages for a long, long time.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1952118951712067816

 

[Valcazar]

As usual you are looking for a gotcha comment rather than discussion so went straight to a straw man claim.
I'd argue that unless a federation were internationally mandated and installed the genocidal side in power would not institute anything less than another version of apartheid.

That same problem applies to a single state without confederation or federation structure.
So why only single those out?

But fine.
Your point is that any such state will have to be "internationally mandated".

Yes, because every step towards publicly censuring Israel is a step towards ending the genocide, apartheid and illegal occupation. Even if their goals are to stall action publicly stating they don't approve of the genocide is a start.

Fair enough.

 

[Frankfooter]

Easier or cheaper than what?
I do note you've limited yourself to 5 million, though.

No, I just went from memory.
We can use 6 million as the rough number now but the final number to be confirmed by the UNWRA.

You do understand that having a right of return and having a truth and reconciliation committee aren't the same thing, right?

You do ask stupid questions sometimes.
You also refuse to answer questions put to you, as if this entire discussion was an exercise in debate prep for later usage.
As if your interest in posting here is finding holes in arguments to filed for future debates.

Which is why you refuse to say you back international law, basic human rights or plausible solutions to a situation you have admitted is genocide.

 

[Frankfooter]

That same problem applies to a single state without confederation or federation structure.
So why only single those out?

But fine.
Your point is that any such state will have to be "internationally mandated".

Again, you are interested in straw man arguments rather than discussion towards solutions.
You refuse to offer your own insight into how to fix the problem but are here to pick apart any possible ideas.

Fair enough.

Why do you refuse to say what you think should or could happen?

 

[Valcazar]

No, I just went from memory.
We can use 6 million as the rough number now but the final number to be confirmed by the UNWRA.

But you are using the "registered with UN" number, correct?

You do ask stupid questions sometimes.

I would rather ask the "stupid" question than assume you or anyone else on this board knows what they are talking about.
Especially since there is a long history here of people shooting off their mouths without thinking through what they are saying or bothering to educate themselves on issues.
The percentage of times asking the "stupid" question has demonstrated how clueless someone is has been pretty high.

You also refuse to answer questions put to you, as if this entire discussion was an exercise in debate prep for later usage.

As if your interest in posting here is finding holes in arguments to filed for future debates.

Because it is.
This is a fucking politics forum on an escort review board.
This is nothing but an intellectual exercise where I get to see more of how people think (or don't) about certain issues.
Not so much for future debates, since "debate" is almost always a terrible format that I find mostly useless. (I'm speaking of formal debate here.)

Which is why you refuse to say you back international law, basic human rights or plausible solutions to a situation you have admitted is genocide.

I am all about plausible solutions to problems.
I support international law.
I am also aware of the limitations of international law and the definition of the word plausible.

 

[Valcazar]

Again, you are interested in straw man arguments rather than discussion towards solutions.
You refuse to offer your own insight into how to fix the problem but are here to pick apart any possible ideas.

How is pointing out that you say it should be "internationally mandated" picking anything apart?
That's what you said.

Why do you refuse to say what you think should or could happen?

Because what "should" happen is largely just wish casting and pointless in this forum.
What "could" happen is many things and you won't like them.

Right now, I think the most likely next stage is maintenance of Israeli control of the region, with vague promises of moving towards a negotiated solution that doesn't go anywhere.

 

[Frankfooter]

But you are using the "registered with UN" number, correct?

Yes, for this debate lets use the UNRWA registered number.

I would rather ask the "stupid" question than assume you or anyone else on this board knows what they are talking about.
Especially since there is a long history here of people shooting off their mouths without thinking through what they are saying or bothering to educate themselves on issues.
The percentage of times asking the "stupid" question has demonstrated how clueless someone is has been pretty high.

As long as you are ok with having stupid questions called out, fine.

Because it is.
This is a fucking politics forum on an escort review board.
This is nothing but an intellectual exercise where I get to see more of how people think (or don't) about certain issues.
Not so much for future debates, since "debate" is almost always a terrible format that I find mostly useless. (I'm speaking of formal debate here.)

Which is why you always come off as a zionist supporter, at best 'liberal zionist', practicing lines to use to defend Israel in polite society.
Also explains why you were ok with losing the election rather than pushing the dems to not support genocide and why you refuse to state your own views.
(yes, I know, you think that there is no way that the biggest protests in the country could have moved the polls the 1-2% necessary)

I am all about plausible solutions to problems.
I support international law.
I am also aware of the limitations of international law and the definition of the word plausible.

I am, I'm not sure about you.
The US/Israeli partnership has lead to the largest attacks against international law and human rights this century.
Normalizing genocide is really fucked in the head, but not so much for you.
Defending zionism through practicing talking points here is just more Wilhoit conservatism, a form of trying to use laws to maintain control over another group.

Its comes across from your posts that you think Israel can continue in its present form, whether or not the genocide is ended.
Instead, its looking like the genocide will lead to the end of the zionist movement, possible end of american democracy and an end to larger alliances.

That you appear to think there is no solution just makes it sound you are ok with this.

 

[xmontrealer]

What was Hamas thinking in posting the recent video of the emaciated Israeli hostage digging his own grave?

Didn't they realize they were winning the propaganda war up until that point? Did they expect more public sympathy by posting it?

Apart from shocking some previous Gaza sympathizers, it only served to steel Israel's resolve to find the hostages by whatever means necessary, wipe out as many Hamas militants as possible, and occupy Gaza in its entirety in the process.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Israel's resolve to find the hostages by whatever means necessary...

Hostages are the last thing Netanyahu cares about.

 

[The Oracle]

Carney: Two-state solution ‘no longer tenable’

Prime Minister Mark Carney says Canada has long supported a two-state solution in the Middle East, but now that “approach is no longer tenable.” Subscribe to...

www.youtube.com

LOL...

 

[The Oracle]

Hostages are the last thing Netanyahu cares about.

Good so your side can give them back right?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Good so your side can give them back right?

Yes Hamas should release hostages but it seems there is no incentive to do so because Netanyahu does not want to permanently stop the attacks on Gaza.
So really it is Netanyahu that is responsible for the hostages being stuck in Gaza at this point.
A large proportion of Israelis agree with this as well with many claiming that he is doing this to save his own skin and stay in power for as long as possible.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Carney: Two-state solution ‘no longer tenable’

Prime Minister Mark Carney says Canada has long supported a two-state solution in the Middle East, but now that “approach is no longer tenable.” Subscribe to...

www.youtube.com

LOL...

He said the approach to achieving a 2 state solution is no longer tenable.
Not that the 2 state solution itself was untenable.

 

[Frankfooter]

What was Hamas thinking in posting the recent video of the emaciated Israeli hostage digging his own grave?

Didn't they realize they were winning the propaganda war up until that point? Did they expect more public sympathy by posting it?

Apart from shocking some previous Gaza sympathizers, it only served to steel Israel's resolve to find the hostages by whatever means necessary, wipe out as many Hamas militants as possible, and occupy Gaza in its entirety in the process.

Wow, a zionist now has less empathy for Hamas.
While the rest of the world has less empathy for genocidal racists running Israel.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

 

[Frankfooter]

Carney: Two-state solution ‘no longer tenable’

Prime Minister Mark Carney says Canada has long supported a two-state solution in the Middle East, but now that “approach is no longer tenable.” Subscribe to...

www.youtube.com

LOL...

That's AI, isn't it?

But if there is no two state solution then it'll be the one state solution.
If that's the case, do you back more apartheid or equal rights for all?

 

[Frankfooter]

Good so your side can give them back right?

So your side will give them back as well?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1952118951712067816

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1950335810072457302

 

[xmontrealer]

He said the approach to achieving a 2 state solution is no longer tenable.
Not that the 2 state solution itself was untenable.

Any conceivable 2 state solution must include a pledge by both states regarding each other's right to exist, honored by both states, with no terrorism or other militant attacks from either side.

Israel should then have no say or control over what goes on in Gaza, assuming Hamas or whatever regime is in power in Gaza does not seem to be building up their military forces again.

Remember that Israel pulled all of its citizens out of Gaza in 2005, in the hopes that would end the terrorism and attacks from Gaza, but still kept some control of Gaza. Didn't work...

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Any conceivable 2 state solution must include a pledge by both states regarding each other's right to exist, honored by both states, with no terrorism or other militant attacks from either side.

Israel should then have no say or control over what goes on in Gaza, assuming Hamas or whatever regime is in power in Gaza does not seem to be building up their military forces again.

Remember that Israel pulled all of its citizens out of Gaza in 2005, in the hopes that would end the terrorism and attacks from Gaza, but still kept some control of Gaza. Didn't work...

I don't disagree.
But I doubt Netanyahu will agree to anything.