Frank Thomas....HOF???

[RTRD]

Ok....I see this morning that Frank Thomas has hit a homer in his sixth straight game...two off the MLB record. I click the link and I see, somewhat to my surprise...Frank is back to putting up Frank Thomas numbers....36 HR....98 RBI...projecting to 42 and 114...with a .396 OBP and a .566 slugging %.

So....with 484 HRs, Frank is a lock to get to 500 now...and if he hits as well as he did this season, he should be able to stay above .300 for his career. That would put him in some VERY select company...all the retired guys with those numbers are already in the Hall....and the current guys (A-Rod, Manny) are locks.

So....is Frank Thomas a HOF guy?

Remember...this is a guy who once hit .353 with 38 homers...in ONLY 113 GAMES!! He has another .349 / 40 season, and a third .347 / 35. This is a man who was bar none the most feared hitter in the AL during his hey day....and has always been one of the biggest anti steriods guys...voluntered to be tested, testified before Congress.

On the other hand...

There has perhaps never been a more one dimensional HOF candidate... utterly useless in the field and on the bases.

But...if Paul Molitor can get in after playing most of his career @ "DH", Frank can to, right?

But...no World Series ring....

Talk amongst yourselves....

 

[felix]

frank thomas is a lock once he hits 500

 

[Brownie69]

I don't know..... The Baseball HOF is the hardest to crack in all of sports. Thomas is a great hitter, but no one has ever put him in the same category as Paul Molitor. Molitor was a great hitter, but also a leader and a fantastic teammate. He was well liked by the media as well.

I guess what my point is, is that getting into the Baseball HOF is a very political thing. Would I consider him a lock? No...... Based on his numbers should he be in? Yes, but so should a couple of other players.

 

[slowandeasy]

I was under the impression that Thomas was a great teammate for many years but got pissed off when his role with the Sox was diminished...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that Molitor/Yount combo with the Brewers was solid both defensively and offensively..... It was only after he left the Brewers that he was used alot as a DH..

Thomas was not a good fielder, but he was not terrible either... no wait... maybe he was...

 

[Toke]

Frank Thomas is a 100% sure thing to get into the HOF on his first ballot. As much as he is "only" a DH, it is a recognized position and therefore part of the game. He was almost as feared in the 90s as Barry Bonds was/is in the early part of this decade. Paul Molitor is currently the only player in the HOF as a Dh, but over the next 10-15-20 years you will see many career DHs get in and/or be heavily considered (Harold Baines, Edgar Martinez, David Ortiz, Travis Hafner, Jason Giambi).

 

[The_Game]

But...no World Series ring....

They never gave him one for being injured most of last season including the playoffs in Chicago?

He was their longest serving member, and he was their best player for over 10years. Then with guys like Paul Konerko and Jermaine Dye playing amazing, as well as the off-season signing of Jim Thome, they let him go.

He's still playing great in Oakland, and I'd vote him into the HOF.

 

[RTRD]

I actually...

They never gave him one for being injured most of last season including the playoffs in Chicago?

...do not know...I do know he left Chicago with his ass on fire...it was NOT pretty. They may have decided to not give him a ring.

And, in the context of this discussion, it doesn't matter. The voters KNOW he wasn't a part of that team that won the World Series, so he will get no credit, actual ring or no...

 

[Hard Idle]

Ok....
There has perhaps never been a more one dimensional HOF candidate... utterly useless in the field and on the bases.
....

This is a legitimate but outdated argument. The above description could be used to describe at least one third of all future HOF candidates who's primed from in the late 90's and later.

In an era when Palmeiro can win Gold Gloves at first, is defense even worth talking about as criteria? Half of todays superstars are really nothing more than DH's. Even guys that come into the majors as great all-round athleates with defensive skills soon become too muscledbound to safely run, throw or dive, without tearing up their bodies.

 

[RTRD]

I disagree...

This is a legitimate but outdated argument. The above description could be used to describe at least one third of all future HOF candidates who's primed from in the late 90's and later.

In an era when Palmeiro can win Gold Gloves at first, is defense even worth talking about as criteria? Half of todays superstars are really nothing more than DH's. Even guys that come into the majors as great all-round athleates with defensive skills soon become too muscledbound to safely run, throw or dive, without tearing up their bodies.

...think there are still lots of 4 and 5 tool players...and while yes you might be right about "Half of todays superstars are really nothing more than DH's", I'd say those are guys who should not be in the Hall.

Guys like A Rod, Carlos Beltran, Vlad The Bad, Vernon Wells and Ichiro are a cut above because they are 4 or 5 tool players. Others such as Pujols deseve credit for being complete players...playing in the field and batting.

Personally I hate the DH rule, and I know no DH who wasn't OUTSTANDING at the plate would get my vote if I had one. And right now, the only guy that there is a question about in my mind is Thomas, because his batting stats are amongst the 20 best of all time...there is nobody with 500 HRs and a career .300 average who is not in the Hall....and I dont' see any other guys who are strickly DHs challeging that mark any time soon...

 

[salsamarc]

better him to enter the HOF than Barry "Steroids" Bonds

 

[Toke]

All points in this discussion are to be well taken. Are all of today's superstars DHs?? It's hard to tell because many of them (including Thomas) came into the league as position players. I do however, remember alot of talk when Thomas came into the league that he would likely spend the majority of his career as a DH. With that said, if there was no DH, don't you think that he would be a first baseman?? He may have been a terrible defensive player but then this DH thing would not really be a topic. It's hard to describe who or what is a HOF player except by saying, "Didi they dominate, or change, the game in one way or another for an extended period of time?" I don't think outside of the streak that Cal Ripken Jr has HOF numbers, but he did change the perception of the shortstop position. Ozzie Smith was considered a great defensive shortstop but his offense was almost as bad as Thomas' defense. Is he a HOF player. In the end it's all relative.

BTW, Thomas did recieve a ring for last year's World Series. Carlos Delgado played two games for the 1993 Blue Jays and has a ring to show for it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Delgado) Look under "Trivia"

 

[slowandeasy]

better him to enter the HOF than Barry "Steroids" Bonds

Unless someone pins the tail on the donkey, Bonds will get in on his first try.

 

[salsamarc]

sorry if I highjack the thread but in my opinon the big hurt is a HOF and i will take Pete Rose over Barry Bonds as a Hall of Famer any day

 

[Toke]

Is Frank Thomas a HOF player???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Thomas_(AL_baseball_player)

Yup!!!

 

[shack]

Oh by the way ... You forgot to mention that the A's got him for dirt cheap .... You see JP you can win with a 75 million dollar payroll .. You
just have to have great amateur scounting and pro scouting ....

Other teams passed on him as well. In fact hardly anyone was willing to sign him. If other teams wanted him he wouldn't have had to sign for such a measly sum.

The A's got lucky.

 

[shack]

sorry if I highjack the thread but in my opinon the big hurt is a HOF and i will take Pete Rose over Barry Bonds as a Hall of Famer any day

That's like picking Jack the Ripper over Hitler.

Both of those assholes (the ball players) can rot in hell as far as I'm concerned. (And the other two as well.)

 

[RTRD]

Nope...not a chance...

sorry if I highjack the thread but in my opinon the big hurt is a HOF and i will take Pete Rose over Barry Bonds as a Hall of Famer any day

Bonds was / is an asshole, but he is also a fantastic player. He was a HOF player before he touched the juice (.300, 400 HRs, 300 SBs, multiple Gold Gloves and MVP awards), and it yet remains to be proven that he did (though no one in their right mind doubts it). What Barry is accused of is something others have done as well - he was not alone - and in addition we will never know how many players juiced who were NOT in the spotlight (in otherwords were not named Bonds, McGuire, Sosa or Palmero). Lastly, while the drugs were illegal, they were not against the rules of baseball...so let me ask you, how many other illegal things do you think pro athletes do that are not against the actual rules?

I would say in summary that while what Bonds did was terrible, and his actions (along with others) have tainted that game, and that I am personally not sure *I* would vote for him...he sins are not on the same order those of Rose.

On the other hand....

Rose bet on baseball WHILE INVOLVED WITH BASEBALL. Not only is this absolutely no question no gray area against the rules, it calls into question the very integrity of the game. Many people cry and lament the steriods era, but that aganst is not universal...not EVERYONE thinks it is that big of a deal. And no one was complaining while the homers were flying out (actually, I was, but that is another story...). What Rose did is UNIVERSALLY recognized as wrong - it is beyond explanation. You gambled on the very game you could influence the outcome of??? (He says he never gambled on Reds games - not only do I not believe him, but it doesn't matter....his actions as manager of the Reds influenced what every other team in the NL did, by defintion).

There is no question in my or in the vast majority of people's minds the Rose's sins are worse. Bonds (and others) unleveled the playing field, but you could argue that would be the case for any athlete who does anything to give himself an edge. Rose CHANGED the playing field - distorting it in ways we will never fully understand.

Rose should never be allowed to enter the hall, even as a guest.

This has nothing to do with which guy you like more....what Rose did was beyond foul....

 

[shack]

There is no question in my or in the vast majority of people's minds the Rose's sins are worse.

I still say it's like comparing Jack the Ripper to Hitler.

 

[RTRD]

Actually...

I still say it's like comparing Jack the Ripper to Hitler.

...if Bonds is Jack, I'm inclined to agree....

 

[RTRD]

More on this topic...

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=behrens/060925