Gas Prices

[pussylicker]

Funny how you say YOU need a bigger vehicle and yet you insinuate that there are some that don't? Just for reference some of the bigger SUVs get better fuel economy that lots of regular passenger vehicles from the 70's and 80's. For eg: My F150 uses 3 times less fuel than my old 77 chev van.

I'm sorry, but I can't haul plywood, tiles or rolls of flooring in a Prius. I drive a Ranger right now, and it's not big enough for my needs. I've driven compact trucks since '90.

Sorry about your 77 Chevy, but what can I say. It's a Chevy. Actually Chev trucks get better gas mileage than Fords. As far as big SUVs getting better gas mileage, only EFI has helped that, and big SUVs don't get better mileage than most 80s passenger vehicles. Secondly, it comes down to driving habits.

Why do I see young kids driving Escalades, Yukons, Expeditions etc thumpin' around town? They don't need to be driving them. I started out with a 4banger Civic.

 

[pussylicker]

No one likes the gas prices, but to bitch that companies are making money..............man I am so sick of the line here on TERB. No one in the free world is allowed to make any money according to the people here at TERB and if they do, let's boycott. You guys are a joke. Don't like the pricees, buy a bike, car pool, move closer to work, don't drive the SUV. I pay maybe 40-60/week in gas that is good. It works and I am happy. I truly feel sorry for you guys, life must just be unbareable at times. Gas prices, SP's prices...........How do you all live life every day?.......

How is this slagging on hobbyists? Coming down on idiots maybe.. Why is it that on TERB no one is allow to make a buck without the cries of boycott??? Not SP's, Not gas companies, not rogers, or bell, or home depot or walmart. Not even Tim Horton's. Can we say jealous much..........

Please show my various threads of slagging hobbyist where what I have said it directed towards hobbyists firstly and secondly where what I am saying is not truthful. Why does it have to be some unemployed boyfriend??? You think I would deal with one of those, LOL. You think I would deal with a man who couldn't take care of his own transportation, and at 30 I am going thru menopause right???? Whatever! LOL.

Better yet, don't find the threads, cause in the immortal words of all the hobbyist on TERB, I am simply stating my opinion, don't like.......... don't read it.

KWI

Do you like getting raped?

Actually, if you don't like what we say, don't reply. Why can't we voice an opinion about being hosed at the pumps. It cuts into my earnings, and EVERYONE else who drives. You want to take another step backwards in your level of lifestyle, keep supporting the BIG oil companies. It will only get worse unless we join together and speak as ONE.

 

[pussylicker]

Well said. BTW until gas prices are high there is no incentive for us to stop killing each other through greenhouse emissions. Blaming the government or expecting the government to do something is so low rent.

The only thing the government can do is increase subsidies for hybrids through direct levies on sport utilities.

What about all the methane gasses produced by cattle, rotting leaves and dead trees?

The only thing the Gov't can do is reduce the friggin taxes. Hybrids(gas electric) will cost you more over the long haul unless you only drive in the city. Battery replacement will be expensive, and the extra weight doesn't give you better gas mileage. Nobody has really thought through what the automobile does to the environment every time there is an major accident.

 

[pussylicker]

Studies have been done on price fixing and it has been found again and again that there is no funny business going on. The Canadian market is supposed to be highly competitive and the volatile prices are purely a function of supply and demand.

Yah, we all know what Dan MacTeague did. Blowing his horn and all, saying he would get to the bottom of it.

 

[pussylicker]

In a twelve month period. Hmmm, copper is pretty close. Not quite double, but I'd say about 75% - 80% increase.

Once again, supply and demand. There are cycles during the year where prices jump or drop erratically. I know some recyclers hold onto certain metals til the price goes back up. And yes, I worked for a company that maufactured with copper and aluminium, and they would stockpile inventory when it was cheap, and hold onto scrap, waiting for better prices to dump the scrap.

 

[burlboy]

Studies have been done on price fixing and it has been found again and again that there is no funny business going on. The Canadian market is supposed to be highly competitive and the volatile prices are purely a function of supply and demand.

However I don't fully buy this. How can prices in EVERY station in the GTA bump up by nearly identical amounts within a few hours? How can a 15% increase be caused by a supply or demand? Did all the stations suddenly get short of gas, or did everyone suddenly start driving more?

When I decide to buy a chocolate bar it's pretty much the same price at all the variety stores. Should we investigate them for price fixing? The reality is if your competitor lowers the price you have to try and match otherwise you will lose market share to him. That is what keeps the market at similar price(on the same corner anyway). Across the city the price varies and when I travel town to town I see price differences.

 

[burlboy]

Do you like getting raped?

Actually, if you don't like what we say, don't reply. Why can't we voice an opinion about being hosed at the pumps. It cuts into my earnings, and EVERYONE else who drives. You want to take another step backwards in your level of lifestyle, keep supporting the BIG oil companies. It will only get worse unless we join together and speak as ONE.

Actually, this is an arena of Ideas not your own personal bitch box. You voiced your opinion, please have the courtesy to allow others to do the same. It's all part of that pesky free society thing. Not everybody is going to agree with you that does not mean they are attacking you. OK so you don't like big oil and you take great offense that a corporation or and industry should make a profit. Others disagree, driving is a privilege not a right. therefore you are not entitled to cheap gas. It's a commodity if you use it you have to pay for it. The corporations are not charity they and their shareholders are entitled to a profit for the goods and services they provide. If you think the profit is gross then you have two choices

Beat'em --Don't buy oil based products

Join'em --Buy shares and participate in "the Rape" of John Q Citizen.

FAQ Reply

For the record I do not work for "Big Oil" and I do not own shares in any oil company

 

[burlboy]

Oh I forgot the 3rd or Liberal Alternative

Do nothing and wait for the Government to bail you out

 

[mmouse]

The reality is if your competitor lowers the price you have to try and match otherwise you will lose market share to him.

That's true, but what happens when your competitor raises his price? You already have inventory, so why not keep your price the same and grab market share from him?

Show me another open, free and competitive market where prices amongst all sellers gap up by 10-15% on a regular basis and also without any corresponding price move in raw material.

 

[booboobear]

Actually, this is an arena of Ideas not your own personal bitch box. You voiced your opinion, please have the courtesy to allow others to do the same. It's all part of that pesky free society thing. Not everybody is going to agree with you that does not mean they are attacking you. OK so you don't like big oil and you take great offense that a corporation or and industry should make a profit. Others disagree, driving is a privilege not a right. For the record I do not work for "Big Oil" and I do not own shares in any oil company

First of all who said driving is a privilege you , I determine what is my right .
Secondly if you like getting screwed by oil cartels then you are an idiot.
It's not about making a profit , companies must make a profit to survive , it's about paying .90 c today and $ 1.20 next week because you are a captive market. In my business we raise prices when we have legitimate cost increases not on whim and speculation driven by greedy cartels . If you can't see the point then you are a moron.

 

[burlboy]

actually the constitution determines what is your right. When your are driving you are actually operating heavy equipment. The law requires that you be licensed to operate motor vehicles. If you abuse the privilege or you do not have the innate ability to safely operate a vehicle then you can't get a license. The only group that considers driving a right is the UN. In every jurisdiction in North America you have to be evaluated for your fitness to drive. If you pass you are given the privilege.

Personally I have yet to pay more than a 1$/litre for gas because I buy my gas at night when the demand is low and there is more competitive pricing. When demand is up so is price (no need to shill for customers).

In my business we determine the cost to provide our product, we then factor in a reasonable profit margin. If however our competitor cuts his profit margin to draw customers then we have to follow suit or risk losing that market to the other guy. When He gets tired of not making any money or he thinks he has captured a bigger share he raises the price back and harvest his profit. Now only an idiot would sell at a loss but some guys are willing to lose a little profit to try and grow the business.

As to the name calling and Questioning of character, that is the last refuge of a desperate man in the arena of ideas and ultimately indicates you are unable to defend your position.

 

[booboobear]

actually the constitution determines what is your right. When your are driving you are actually operating heavy equipment. The law requires that you be licensed to operate motor vehicles. If you abuse the privilege or you do not have the innate ability to safely operate a vehicle then you can't get a license. The only group that considers driving a right is the UN. In every jurisdiction in North America you have to be evaluated for your fitness to drive. If you pass you are given the privilege.

Personally I have yet to pay more than a 1$/litre for gas because I buy my gas at night when the demand is low and there is more competitive pricing. When demand is up so is price (no need to shill for customers).

In my business we determine the cost to provide our product, we then factor in a reasonable profit margin. If however our competitor cuts his profit margin to draw customers then we have to follow suit or risk losing that market to the other guy. When He gets tired of not making any money or he thinks he has captured a bigger share he raises the price back and harvest his profit. Now only an idiot would sell at a loss but some guys are willing to lose a little profit to try and grow the business.

As to the name calling and Questioning of character, that is the last refuge of a desperate man in the arena of ideas and ultimately indicates you are unable to defend your position.

I doubt very much the laws re driving are in the constitution although they are governed . Yes we need a license and must be competent to drive but I don't call that a privilege I call that a right and in any case that has nothing to do with cartels ripping people off. I buy gas at night also but I would say the demand is actually higher at night now because people wait and buy at night. Whether you buy at night or day you HAVE to buy , do you really think they lower it at night because they are afraid you won't buy. You are really very naive. We cut prices when we have to in my business due to competetive situations but guess what the oil business is a monopoly get it . I can more than defend my position I already have but you don't get it , the fluctuation of prices is due to greed costs don't change day to day , minute to minute . Do you understand how oil prices are set ?
If you are content to be held captive by greedy cartels I can't reason with you.

 

[mmouse]

Personally I have yet to pay more than a 1$/litre for gas because I buy my gas at night when the demand is low and there is more competitive pricing. When demand is up so is price (no need to shill for customers).

With all due respect you are talking BS! At the gas station by my house, every 3-4 nights or so the price is low, and there are big line ups. During the day you'll never see more than half the pumps being used. So demand is highest at these evening periods. Yet the station holds the price low all evening, usuallly jacking it up at 11pm or so.

According to your theory, prices should fluctuate on a 24 hour schedule - higher during the day, and lower every evening. This is not the case. In the GTA prices decline gradually over a 2-4 day period, then spike up suddenly, usually in the evening or night when according to you demand is lowest.

 

[burlboy]

Unless there is a really big gas war going on in the neighbourhood I haven't seen lineups although lately there has been increased traffic in the evening but not huge lineups. When the price gets high enough we start to adjust our habits. When the gas was cheaper I didn't really pay attention to the day vs night price I just gassed up as needed. now they have reached my phycological limit of 1$/litre so I am paying more attention to the cycles as I suspect most people are. In the evening I have the time to look around and find the best price in my neighbourhood, in the morning I'm always boned for time and can't afford to look around. I'm sure the gas stations know this and price accordingly. I'm fortunate, I don't drive far and I have a job that is convieniently located for public transit to work for me so I can pick an choose when and where I gas up. The price always seems to be lower in the evenings and in the middle part of the week.

 

[burlboy]

I doubt very much the laws re driving are in the constitution although they are governed . Yes we need a license and must be competent to drive but I don't call that a privilege I call that a right and in any case that has nothing to do with cartels ripping people off. I buy gas at night also but I would say the demand is actually higher at night now because people wait and buy at night. Whether you buy at night or day you HAVE to buy , do you really think they lower it at night because they are afraid you won't buy. You are really very naive. We cut prices when we have to in my business due to competitive situations but guess what the oil business is a monopoly get it . I can more than defend my position I already have but you don't get it , the fluctuation of prices is due to greed costs don't change day to day , minute to minute . Do you understand how oil prices are set ?
If you are content to be held captive by greedy cartels I can't reason with you.

Is it really a monopoly? You could buy an electric car. If there is an alternative then there is not a monopoly. The other options are just more expensive than using a gas powered car. Your just bent out of shape because you are already using the cheapest convenient option and you think it should be cheaper. As to the price competitions in the local gas market. if one guy lowers the price they all do or risk losing market to the other station. since one company doesn't own all the individual stations that's not a monopoly either. Stations may get their refined material from the same refinery but if you don't like monopolies then petition the government to make it easier to build some new refineries their hasn't been a new one for years even though usage keeps increasing. Costs do change day to day, the price of the raw material is in constant flux. Their was a good article explaining the effect of raw material increase on gas prices and why an increase in the raw material causes an immediate increase in gasoline cost and a gradual decline over days and weeks after the raw material price has fallen off. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[mmouse]

Take a look at the chart for the last month, it lets you compare toronto retail gas price to the crude price:
http://www.torontogasprices.com/retail_price_chart.aspx

See what happened on April 20 - crude fell, retail price went up.
This happened again on April 27.
Was demand especially strong on those days? And did it stay strong ever since? Unlikely.

 

[biog]

With all due respect you are talking BS! At the gas station by my house, every 3-4 nights or so the price is low, and there are big line ups. During the day you'll never see more than half the pumps being used. So demand is highest at these evening periods. Yet the station holds the price low all evening, usuallly jacking it up at 11pm or so.

According to your theory, prices should fluctuate on a 24 hour schedule - higher during the day, and lower every evening. This is not the case. In the GTA prices decline gradually over a 2-4 day period, then spike up suddenly, usually in the evening or night when according to you demand is lowest.

But here's another problem. If it was a monopoly and price gouging and all those great buzz words. Then why would the price fluctuate at all? The competition bureau has absolved the gas companies of collusion a number of times. What is their incentive to lower prices throughout the day?

 

[Meister]

Actually driving is a right not a priviledge. Once you obtain a license everybody can drive and nobody can take that right to drive away unless you drive drunk, crazy or are handicapped.

A priviledge implies that some people have it and others not.

 

[mmouse]

Good point. I don't believe there is classic price fixing going on - no secret meetings of executives etc.

However there would appear to be some "soft" fixing going on. There is a fairly predictable pattern to retail pricing in the GTA, in particular the fast gaps up. When one retailer jacks up the price, others will follow. Not because they all have a secret agreement, they just know that every other station in the GTA is going to do the same thing from past experience.

Now there's nothing illegal in that. However it is only possible because the market is dominated by 4 retailers who set their prices in central offices. If some little guy doesn't follow the unwritten rules, it doesn't matter because the big 4 control enough of the market to hold the prevailing price up. So the little guys just follow suit and cash in too.

What is harder to prove is whether this semi-fixed price reults in higher average margins for the gas companies. Since the supplier, not the level of demand, decides when the big price increases occur, it would be naive to assume it doesn't.

 

[tboy]

Actually driving is a right not a priviledge. Once you obtain a license everybody can drive and nobody can take that right to drive away unless you drive drunk, crazy or are handicapped.

A priviledge implies that some people have it and others not.

Sorry, that's where you are mistaken. Driving isn't a "right" at all. No where in our constitution does it state "each and every citizen has the right to drive a motorized vehicle"....Many think like you do that is why we have so many people on the road and so many idiots (not saying YOU"RE an idiot at all).

Sure there are independent gas stations out there, but hmmm, lemme think, if there are only 4 companies producing gasoline, where do these independents get their inventory? FROM THE BIG FOUR and you might like to know that if independant station A, starts selling their inventory below the current market value, his delivery from the supplier will a) be late b) not show up at all and c) the contract could be cancelled. So of course they follow suit.

You can show me all kinds of studies, charts and what not but if you think the oil companies are not gouging us at every oppurtinity, you're naive. No matter who says what, if gas station a has their tanks full of inventory and that inventory was produced when crude was $70.00 a barrel, there is NO way in HELL that the cost of that inventory will rise if the price of crude goes up to $75.00 a barrel. The reason the price goes up? BECAUSE THE INVENTORY OF ALREADY PRODUCED GASOLINE IS MORE VALUABLE NOW.

Again I will state, it is gouging that raises the price so. For eg: milk sells in the store for about $4.00 for 3.0 litres. You don't see the retail price of milk flucuate daily because the commodities market price changes. The only time you see an increase is if the commodity price increases dramatically.