Gave an ugly woman $2.00

[The Fruity Hare]

It seems to be the latest scam technique these days for pan handlers to scam money.

I have been approached many times with one sob story or another.

"Excuse me sir, but my car broke down and I need to get 25 dollars together for bus fare back to Barry, I was wondering if you could help. I've never done anything like this before and I am really embarrassed"




I am not joking if I say that I have had 10 people come up to me in the last couple of years with one BS sob story or another. Always looking for big cash, not like a quarter or spare change, but 10 or 20 bucks or more.

Fuck right off.

I was in Canadian Tire parking lot about 2 weeks ago and this guy comes up to me and starts a sob story and I knew where this was going.

I cut him off in mid first sentence with "Whatever you want, I don't want - get the fuck away from me"

I know it sounds heartless, but I am sick and tired of pan handlers, bums, mooches, squeegee bums, etc. on every block. Every time I come down the Gardiner, I know they will be there with their Tim Horton's cup.

3 words

Get a job.

I used to throw cash at bums far more than the average guy, but the bum population of Toronto has exploded in the last few years. You can't walk 20 metres down a main street without getting approached for cash.

I could go broke supporting all the bums I run into.

Now - never, ever do I give cash to any pan handlers. There's no need in this society to be mooching money. Giving money just encourages them to sit on their asses. If no-one ever gave a dime, the pan handlers who dry up.

Sorry for the rant.

I had that EXACT situation occur tonight. At about 2:00am, a guy cycles up to me and asks if I am familiar with the area.(I guess the story changes for locals and tourists) He says he imagines I saw all the police cars near the Hilton hotel(Actually I didn't), and says he and his brother were in town from Peterborough for a stag and his brother crashed their car into a barrier in the underground parking, still holding a beer in his hand.
Curses his brother, says he needs money for gas. Says he is embarrassed etc...

Hmmm, brother had a spectacular crash with your car, you are cycling the streets of Toronto looking for money for gas while the cops are busting your brother. This story has so many holes in it it's not worth trying.

Another is the guy who just got back into town got off the bus at the wrong stop, needs cab fare to get to his wife who is a nurse working night shift at a downtown hospital. Shows me his empty pill bottle, says he needs fresh medication. Funny thing is, he has been getting off that bus at the wrong stop for about 5 years now!
Annessa, these people are con artists, they are the reason many people stopped giving. They are not as needy as the desperate people you are talking about, they go for the big $$$ and after a while people feel everyone is trying to scam them.
The shaky lady conned many people until she was exposed, another woman on Yonge St. claims to be collecting for a children's charity... almost daily for the past ten years.

My ex and I used to buy pizza and pop for a couple of girls in their early twenties begging on Yonge. Years later one of them is still there, we can't help people who won't help themselves. I am sure many of them are truly needy, others are just lazy.

After a while, just like Capt Kirk, I had to say enough.

 

[ackack]

The Fruity Hare, when I was reading your post you got me thinking of the Shaky Lady, and then you mentioned her. That was a big eye opener to me and probably alot of people. She had an apartment, with some family, big screen tv etc. If she could do it, how many others are there?
I'm not from T.O., but when I come in off the Gardiner there's always at least 1 guy there with a cup. And on Yonge street how many others? How do you choose who to give to and how much?
I've wondered though, if some of the people can't get a job through a temp. service. You don't really need a resume, just a basic desire to work. I've worked for these places before. The temp services advertised in the Sun can pay $8-9 and well above. I know half the homeless(or so, no stats), due to age, mental wellness, addiction, etc. can't work. But the younger people should be able to work. I gotta work a crap job...
It's a complicated problem with no easy solutions. Like somebody said feeding and clothing the homeless makes them stay around. But with Annessa's feelings, I agree. It is something we almost Must do. How can we not? Annessa, good for you.


BTW, what if you had offered her a ride instead of money? What would have been her reaction?:}

 

[HafDun]

In our society, needy people are by far the majority.
I find this thread offers an interesting cross section of how we deal with it.

Those who offer help and assistance without questioning motives. (great work Annessa. I trust your Karma will be your ultimate reward)

Those who have no interest in charity. (I believe that giving is a basic component of human nature so I would like to think this group is the minority. Many people don't feel they have the capacity to help but even your time can be a valuable gift as Vannessa so aptly illustrates) I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't show compassion for anyone less fortunate.

Those who just don't understand. People are homeless and jobless and destitute for any number of reasons. Whether it be mental health or just bad luck, who are we to judge. It is a sad reality that there will be 'shaky ladies' & scam artists but if we use that as an excuse to quit caring and helping we truly are in sad shape. At the very least,we can all offer a bit of dignity rather than pass judgement.

Merry Christmas

 

[DonAngelo]

Secondly, how are these people that have no home, no address, no phone, no clean clothes, no computer to do a resume and on top of that are sick are suppose to get a job?

A weird thing happened to me in Yorkville. As I was walking by a beggar on Bloor Street his cell phone rang and he answered it. Begging seems to become organized and takes away from the homeless, who are truly in need.

 

[great bear]

I think a new, novel approach is needed to scoring money. Why ask for chump change when you can go for broke? Approach a well heeled looking gentleman. Tell him you only have $200.00 in your pocket. Then direct his attention to a very sweet, charming knockout standing about 20 feet away. When you have his attention, tell him you need only another $50.00 to get into her pants.

 

[red]

I always offer them a job instead of money. no takers yet

 

[tzahal]

i would have offered her the chance to make $6.00 the hard way

 

[antaeus]

This haranguing the street youth, beggars, whatever name you call them really bugs me. I frequently give to them all, even the poor sods outside liquor stores, because I believe that regardless of reason their life is horrible compared to mine. Admittedly sometimes I am ambivalent or suspicious, but so what. I asked my brother who works social welfare - refugees, immigrants, street youth - all his life. This is what he told me:

1. Most street youth are on the street because it is preferrable to the situation at home.
2. System abuse is 1 - 3%. According to him this is consistent from sources including Stats Can, EI, HRDC, RCMP, municipal police and frontline agency providers.
3. Generally there are more facilities for young females, consequently it is the street boys who regularly pimp themselves.
4. It is difficult to get a job when you have no skills, no high school, no address, are unclean and unhealthy.
5. Street youth are ripe pickings for the criminal element and their nefarious purposes (a reason why a Halifax SY is on the street in Vancouver, and the RCMP are collecting stats.)
6. He generally praises United Way for lowest overhead/reasonable programs.

I think it's a pretty convincing case to give and to not be mean-spirited.

 

[KBear]

I always offer them a job instead of money. no takers yet

They already have a great paying job. the guys working the stop lights could make $1 per light change, if the lights change every 3 minutes, that’s $20 per hour, cash. think they are going to take a $8 - $10 per hour job, pay taxes, working for someone else. add to that the free food delivery, and it starts looking pretty good.

There are certainly people who need help, and they should be helped, and removed from the streets one way or another, but it is not the people working the streets that are the ones in real need.

Problem is, with all the do-gooders out there, it is getting harder and harder to separate the people who are in real need of help, verses the people who are just exploiting the charities and crusaders.

 

[booboobear]

Re: 80% of the homeless are mentally ill??

80% of the homeless are mentally ill? Where did that figure ...City officials and homeless advocates estimate more than a third of the people on the street suffer from mental illness.

But a Centre for Addiction and Mental Health study shows that only 6% of the homeless had spent any time in a psychiatric hospital in the year preceding their homelessness.

."

The study researching "Pathways into Homelessness" interviewed 300 people who rely heavily on the shelter system and found about 67% of them suffer from some type of mental health issue. But the majority (61.7%) have what researchers refer to as non-severe mental health problems, including stress and mood disorders that range from feeling blue to clinical depression. That's about double the rate of the general population.

Youv'e just made a case for the street peple . Do you really think that 67 % that suffer from some type of mental illness can hold down a good enough job that they can stay off the street. You should be thankful that you are lucky enough to have a decent job. Some people just can't cope and while they might not have to be hospitalised could use financial assistance.




The findings have drawn the ire of many shelter workers who claim the mental health issue among the homeless is far more prevalent, says Dr. George Tolomiczenko, one of the study's authors.

"We got a lot of flak. People kept saying the number should have been much higher," Tolomiczenko says. "We can understand that because the people they see who suffer from psychosis are going to be more obvious and they will be in your shelter longer and in your sight more often."

Tolomiczenko says the belief that the growth in the homeless is attributable to "deinstitutionalization" is largely influenced by sensational, misinformed accounts.

Although homelessness in Toronto has grown in the past decade, the percentage that are mentally ill has been static, Everett says. "It's not people with mental issues that are driving the problems."

Everett says advances in treatment have meant far fewer people need to be hospitalized.

By their own account, less than 4% of the homeless felt that their housing loss was directly attributable to symptoms of mental illness, according to the study.

Many more felt that their housing loss was due to job loss or inadequate income (36%), conflict with others (21%), divorce (11%) or as a direct result of eviction (17%)....[/color]

 

[flyingdgn]

Knocked on my apartment door saying her mother died in hospital and needed cab fare to get there.

I would have offered to drive her to the hospital.

I had one guy come up to me in a parking lot and ask for gas money so that he could get home to Cambridge. I offered to drive him there and he just walked away.

I also had someone wash my windshield while I was stopped at a red light. I was about to give him a few twonies when I noticed that he was wearing a pair of $150 Nikes. I changed my mind. What really got me was that I saw the same dude later in a club doing e's.

I don't mind helping others. All my old clothes go to the Fire Department, I give blood every chance I can, I will give money to anybody sleeping in the streets and I will buy any needy person a hot meal, but I am very weary of most people asking for free money. I found out that a successful beggar will make more than $300/day. That is just wrong.

Don't put change in the paper donation boxes at the variety stores.
Don't give money to people that call you on the phone. People will claim to be working on behalf of the Police or the Fire Dept. If you want to give them donations, do it at the Station.
Don't buy chocolates from kids unless you know the school they are selling them for.
I stopped giving money to Unicef when I found out that most of the money is used for 'administrative' costs.

Be nice and give when you can, but be smart about where your money goes.

 

[jwmorrice]

Reply to Booboobear

I almost missed your reply since you put it inside the original quotes. Hey, I was waiting for annessa to find that. Here's a link. http://www.camh.net/hsrcu/html_documents/pathways_proceedings.html

Now here's the relevent part of the study:

"The study looked at the prevalence of lifetime diagnoses of mental illness in the homeless population. Two thirds (approximately 66 percent ) of the homeless population have a lifetime diagnosis of mental illness, which is 2-3 times the prevalence rate of the general population. Depression is the mental illness most reported, understandable given the extent of unfortunate circumstances in these people's lives.

A sub-sample (29 percent ) met the criteria for anti-social personality disorder, often in addition to an Axis I diagnosis (diagnosis of psychotic disorder, depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder). About 25 percent of the sample had received psychiatric outpatient services in the year leading up to the interview, and less than 20 percent had received any kind of services for substance abuse problems.

There are low prevalence rates for the kind of mental illness that tends to stereotype homeless people: hearing voices, being delusional, extremely excited, or behaviourally disinhibited. Severe mental illness (psychotic disorders, primarily schizophrenia) had only a 5.7 percent lifetime prevalence rate. With the addition of people suffering from Amania, a bipolar Type I disorder (5 percent ), there was a lifetime prevalence rate of only 10.7 percent of severe mental illness in the homeless population.

Only 6 percent of the study sample had been in a psychiatric in-patient unit in the year preceding the interview. The idea that large numbers of people are being discharged from psychiatric inpatient units and comprising a significant proportion of the homeless population in Metro Toronto is not supported by our data. About 50 percent of the people who had been in inpatient units had found this experience to be unsatisfactory, which brings into question the creation of more beds in psychiatric facilities as part of the solution.

Very few people in the sample identified mental illness as a precipitating reason for loss of housing. Only 3 percent of those interviewed said they lost their housing because of mental illness.

Substance abuse (alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in particular) is a major problem in this population. When prevalence rates of substance abuse (drug and alcohol abuse) are added to prevalence rates of mental illness, the overall prevalence rate rises to 86 percent . Only 14 percent of the study sample had no diagnosis of either mental illness or substance abuse. The prevalence rate of alcohol and substance abuse is almost identical to the prevalence rate of mental illness; roughly two thirds of the entire homeless population. This is 4-5 times the prevalence rate in the general population. Almost everyone with a lifetime diagnosis of mental illness also had a diagnosis of substance abuse. Three quarters of the people in every diagnostic category of mental illness also had substance abuse disorders. In contrast to mental illness, about 20 percent of the study sample identified substance abuse as the primary reason for loss of housing, and it was found to be an important perpetuating factor in maintaining homelessness."

It would have been less confusing had they reserved the term 'mental illness' for psychotic disorders or what they term 'severe mental illness'. Grouped in with what they call 'mental illness' are such things as personality disorders (borderline, antisocial, narcississtic, etc.), non-psycotic depressions, and whatever else was in the DSM IV(?) at the time. And yes, most such people can and do work....sometimes in the mental health field! We ought not to reinforce the behaviour of those who plunk their asses down on the sidewalks and beg. It isn't good for them and it isn't good for our society.

jwm

 

[Esco!]

I live in a not so good neighbourhood. People just walk in behind when an apathetic tennant opens the door.

I live in an supcale building and that still happens here as well.
The concierge downstairs is useless IMO

 

[shinyam]

Would anyone want to receive a bbj from a really ugly homelss woman for only 5 bucks?

 

[red]

with or without teeth?

 

[strange1]

I follow the "give a man a fish" theory. We need to find ways to encourage the needy to participate in society and develop some kind of skill besides the fast con or playing on peoples misguided sympathy. All that begging does is to continue their ostarcism from our society. The system needs to have some way to help those in actual need while making it unprofiatable for those who could perform other jobs.

I had a guy pull the bus ticket scam on me. He didn't look like he lived on th street and sold it well so I gave him a couple of bucks. I was working downtown a few weeks later and had the same guy come up to me 4 of the 5 days I was there, with different places he was going before his ticket was stolen/lost. At that point, I became more cynical.

On the other hand, Over the course of a few months, I gave one guy about $30. He was high as a kite and did a hillarious 5 minute impromtu comedy routine as we were waiting for a bus. A friend screamed at me for feeding the guy's habit but hey, how much money did Robin Williams make? IMO, same thing.

 

[Annessa]

Re: MENTAL ILLNESS

I almost missed your reply since you put it inside the original quotes. Hey, I was waiting for annessa to find that. Here's a link. http://www.camh.net/hsrcu/html_documents/pathways_proceedings.html


It would have been less confusing had they reserved the term 'mental illness' for psychotic disorders or what they term 'severe mental illness'. Grouped in with what they call 'mental illness' are such things as personality disorders (borderline, antisocial, narcississtic, etc.), non-psycotic depressions, and whatever else was in the DSM IV(?) at the time. And yes, most such people can and do work....sometimes in the mental health field! We ought not to reinforce the behaviour of those who plunk their asses down on the sidewalks and beg. It isn't good for them and it isn't good for our society.

jwm

You read my mind JWM, *hugs* I was going to go on the CAMH website as I have spent some time there and have spoken to a few people that work the inpatient mental wards.
You guys/gals need a reality check and if you want one go and see these people that live on the inpatient ward from 1 month to 10 months. With only 18 beds on the ward it makes the waiting listing system a joke.
Again... there are not enough treatment centers to take care of the mentally ill and bring them back to recovery so they can begin to rebuild their lives again with community support programs. The community support programs won't work until people's mental illness is stabilized
1 in 5 Canadians suffer from Depression. That makes 6,413,610 people suffering with Depression RIGHT NOW!. That's beyond heartbreaking and should make many of you angry that the government is not putting any money into creating more treatment centers for these over 6 million people battling everyday with this crippling illness.

Look... I lost a friend back on July 31st that had been battling depression for 9 years and falling through the systems cracks (365 days a year) that she couldn't take the daily pain anymore. So... she jumped infront of a train and took her own life then waking up 1 more day with the same pain.
It took me 3 weeks to get the courage to go and see her and tell her how sorry I was that I let her down and couldn't keep her holding on, as I cried like an uncontrollable child sprawled across her grave plot.
And I still have days where I suddenly breakdown and cry because I know I will never see her sweet face ever again and that she really is gone.


THAT IS REALITY!
STOP LIVING IN A BUBBLE AND HAVING THIS "WELL... AS LONG AS IT'S NOT HAPPENING TO ME" ADDITUDE!




Annessa
xoxo

 

[Paladium]

Well this has been a very interesting topic and as such this will be my first post to the board.

First off I would like to say that Annessa looks at people in a positive light and appears more than willing to help people whom she considers worse off then her, in any way she can. I am also willing to bet she would help those people who are better off than her. She seems to have a heart of gold Kudos to her.

I am not naive enough to believe that everyone I see begging really needs the money but more often then not I will give a few dollars out to people whom I encounter who look like they are in need or come up with a good story. I too at times become a bit jaded. However, I normally give money because I can. I waste so much money in other meaningless ways why not try to help somone.

On the other hand there are other people who won't give a penny to save a soul. I canvass for the united way and other charities and what do I hear? Sorry I don't believe in the United Way....like it's Santa or something!? How baked is that?

Hey go to the grave with every penny you've ever earned, more power to you. I certainly won't end up a millionaire, but my philosophy about life in general, kinda mirror's Jimmy Stewart's in A Wonderful Life. The rich man is the one with many friends or is willing to help.

I have a sign on my desk that says a true friend is someone who walks in when the rest of the world walks out.

I try to live by that

Paladium

 

[pineappleguy]

I would have

Offered to drive her to the hospital. If she was legit, it would have been a good deed. If she was a scammer, she would have refused or hit you up for money on the ride to the hospital.

 

[rama putri]

So far, I've given about $4.00 away to beggars in the past 5 years. What would you have done?

Why you're quite the philanthropist! To give away THAT much and be so worried about it to ask of it here....