Good employee with bad habits …..

Feb 21, 2007
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Is this employee completing all their daily tasks?

Is their productivity suffering? Are they ignoring customers while surfing the web?

Maybe you need to give them more to do.
 

Keebler Elf

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Aug 31, 2001
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tboy said:
Keeb:

Please indicate precisely where I was inaccurate?
Unauthorized use of company equipment is an acceptable "just cause" reason for dismissal.
Okay, the bolded part is where you're inaccurate. I could go on but pretty much the rest of that post is also inaccurate/wrong.

Arbitrators will likely not find personal use of company computers just cause for dismissal. They may find it just cause if the employee is doing it 50% of the time or if they're surfing porn sites, but just using a company computer to surf the web doesn't amount to just cause. The common law is pretty much reaching the conclusion that it's expected/accepted that employees will use company computers for some minimal/reasonable amount of personal use. Not for porn or other socially unacceptable or illegal activities, but just regular web surfing. If you don't believe me, that's fine and dandy. I've read your posts in this thread and I know the reality so I know who I'm going to trust to make such a decision. ;)

99% of employees use company property for some type of personal use. Spouse calls you at work? Uh-oh, just cause for dismissal! Wrong.

The world is not black and white. You can want it to be as much as you like, but the world will smack your ass as it shows you all the shades of grey there are.
 

Keebler Elf

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Larry_Fyne said:
Data1960 is quite correct in his advice.

You must first of all ensure that you have some policies in place that are 1. written by HR & IT together. 2. That each employee is given a copy of the policies and that they sign them in agreement. 3. The signed copy of each employee's policy is stored in their HR records.
No you don't. This is all bunk.

If this is a non-union job and you're fine with giving notice and possibly severance (which, if it's a small employer of < 50 employees or < $2.5 million payroll, won't be applicable), you can turf their ass with nothing more than a wave of your hand.

All that bureaucratic stuff comes out of large(r) corporations with many employees and more advanced policies and procedures. For small, non-union companies, you don't have to do shit.

That being said, a good employer would do all the things mentioned. But there's absolutely no requirement to do so.

Now if you want to fire for just cause to avoid notice/severance, that's a whole different story...

Be very careful when taking advice from non-HR folks not intimately familiar with labour law. You'll get yourself into a lot of trouble. As is self-evident from a lot of the "advice" in this thread, there's a whole lot of misconceptions and just plain wrong beliefs floating around out there.
 

Keebler Elf

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So back to the original problem, here's what I'd do...

I'm making the assumption that this is a small, non-union company.

First I'd ask myself what I think about the work this particular employee is doing. If they're doing all the work that's asked of them, doing it on time, and doing it well, then I'd probably say, "whatever," and get on with more important things. Some people work more efficiently than others and I'm not going to punish someone for surfing the net if they're getting their work done in an acceptable manner. Don't micro-manage. Employees hate it.

Second, if the employee is not meeting my expectations, I'd sit them down and talk about it with them. Clearly tell them what the expectations are and how to meet them. Ask if they need help meeting them. Maybe the employee doesn't even realize they're supposed to be doing something they're not. Maybe they don't realize they're not supposed to be surfing the net. Maybe they don't realize it's pissing you off. Who knows? You won't unless you have the conversation.

Once you've told them your expectations, monitor them as you normally would. If the behaviour isn't changing, I'd probably give a formal warning and record it on their file (if they even have a file).

If the behaviour still persists, and my original assumption is true, I'd turf their ass. If it's a short service employee, they'd only get a couple weeks notice anyways so I'd either pay it or if they really pissed me off I'd make them sue me just to aggravate them.

If this is a long service employee or if I'm potentially vulnerable to a Human Rights complaint (the employee is a woman, disabled, visible minority, etc.), I'd tread more carefully and would likely turf them with notice. And I'd make the bastard work the notice period. Mwah-ha-ha!

If this was a union job or a bigger company, I would take a very different approach.
 

bsi

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May 19, 2006
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A lot of talk about firing the guy. But that is not what the OP asked. I am guessing that he has an employee who surfs more than the boss would like and the boss just wants a way to make it hard for the employee to succumb to the lure.

I have no idea of the particulars but the IT guys here could give you the details if they focussed on the task rather than the employee. You want to set his machine to deny access to EVERYTHING except the e-mail and network file/application server.

Of course, if the employee is really determined then he will just go to someone elses machine. At that point, you really have a problem because he will be wasting his own time and possibly denying the resource to whoever should be using the machine. But maybe removing the ease of use will cut him back to a level that you can stomach.

My suggestion is to focus on results. If he is actually getting everything done that you want then I would leave it be.

If the surfing is preventing specific tasks being done on a timely basis then I think you have a good case to do the above AND TELL HIM YOU ARE BLOCKING HIM AND WHY. If you tell an employee that he is blocked because he failed to do tasks a, b and c last week and he STILL surfs then you have a probable dismissal issue. But as a boss, I think your first responsibility is to get the tasks done before starting the warning process.

If the boss is perceived as spending a lot of time surfing then disciplining is really tough. So, as a boss I make sure I surf where I cannot be seen.
 

Thousand

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Jan 19, 2002
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bsi said:
My suggestion is to focus on results. If he is actually getting everything done that you want then I would leave it be.

If the surfing is preventing specific tasks being done on a timely basis then I think you have a good case to do the above AND TELL HIM YOU ARE BLOCKING HIM AND WHY. If you tell an employee that he is blocked because he failed to do tasks a, b and c last week and he STILL surfs then you have a probable dismissal issue. But as a boss, I think your first responsibility is to get the tasks done before starting the warning process.

If the boss is perceived as spending a lot of time surfing then disciplining is really tough. So, as a boss I make sure I surf where I cannot be seen.

I second that. If your employee is doing a good job and also have the free time to surf the web, then that mean he has the ability to do more work. Why not increase his responsibilities and see how he develop?

Thousand
 

Moraff

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Danolo said:
Finally, I put him through a warning system designed to either change him or terminate him. This warning system had been set up carefully by the Human Resources people of this large company and I followed it exactly.


Hiring and firing is not fun and can sometimes can be difficult, but if you document everything and take notes of conversations, you'll at least be prepared if you do have to go to court.

Bolded for emphasis. This is key to avoiding/winning those pesky lawsuits (or in a union shop - grievances).
 

Moraff

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Keebler Elf said:
No you don't. This is all bunk.
While not essential to (or required by) a small company, having the formal discipline policy has two advantages:

1) It's a lot easier to win "wrongful termination" lawsuits when you can show the judge documentation that shows you tried to correct the employee's behaviour

2) Employees are happier when they feel that there is some protection about the employer getting in a snit and firing them. Getting severance is fine, but all in all I'd prefer to keep my job. :)
 

Moraff

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Thousand said:
I second that. If your employee is doing a good job and also have the free time to surf the web, then that mean he has the ability to do more work. Why not increase his responsibilities and see how he develop?

Thousand
So my reward (as the employee) for completing the work you assigned to me in an efficient and timely manner is to give me more work? Where's the incentive for me to continue being timely and efficient? You were willing to pay me a day's wage to do X amount of work, now you want X+Y for the same pay?

Not saying that this is how I would look at it (I'd rather keep busy, makes the day go by faster), but I know an awful lot of employees that would take it that way.
 

Tino

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Jul 2, 2008
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spastar said:
One of the big issues for me is, I will have a very hard time replacing him. He is for the most part a good employee- minus the internet surfing at the wrong times. If I fire him I will be back logged with work and it will ultimately hurt me financially.
This is what I do with my staff both old and new....I always let them know that I am lenient with what they do during office hours but the bottom line is at the end of the day I want all the work done and I don't want to hear complaints from clients. The moment a client complains about work not being done, that's where I crack the whip. But so far, they are all good and moral has been very high!!!
 

Thousand

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Moraff said:
So my reward (as the employee) for completing the work you assigned to me in an efficient and timely manner is to give me more work? Where's the incentive for me to continue being timely and efficient? You were willing to pay me a day's wage to do X amount of work, now you want X+Y for the same pay?

Not saying that this is how I would look at it (I'd rather keep busy, makes the day go by faster), but I know an awful lot of employees that would take it that way.
I understand your point. There are some people who prefer to just relax and chat with their free time. There are also people who prefer more work and more achievements, to position themselves for future opportunities.

The key is to align the employee's personal goal with the company's goal, and then use it to motivate him.

Thousand
aka Peter Drucker
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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spastar said:
One of the big issues for me is, I will have a very hard time replacing him. He is for the most part a good employee- minus the internet surfing at the wrong times. If I fire him I will be back logged with work and it will ultimately hurt me financially.
You know what, if the guy's a good employee, maybe you need to take the bad with the good. No-one is perfect.

If the guy can get his job done in 6 hours and make you money and keep the customers happy, you're winning.

If he was on line every minute of every day, he wouldn't be a good employee now would he.

I would just speak to him and ask him to keep his surfing down to lunch hours, and after 5 - knock yourself out. Surf whatever you want on your own time, I don't care.

Maybe you could institute a bonus system where if he meets certain very lofty tagets he gets some extra cash. In that way, you both win.

Cracking the whip only takes you so far.
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Another thought crossed my mind here.

Who among us doesn't surf the web from time to time at work?

To all you guys screaming out to fire his ass - ask you're self if you yourself don't bend the rules at work?
 
Jun 19, 2007
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james t kirk said:
Another thought crossed my mind here.

Who among us doesn't surf the web from time to time at work?

To all you guys screaming out to fire his ass - ask you're self if you yourself don't bend the rules at work?
That would depend if I had a desk job, that gave me computer access.

Ever try and surf the net, while in an excavator?
 

Larry_Fyne

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Keebler Elf said:
No you don't. This is all bunk.
Says you.....

No matter what the size of your company or whether you are unionized or not, it is GOOD BUSINESS to have these policies in place. No matter how big a company you have, you can be sued for wrongful dismissal and without policies, your chances of winning the suit are diminished.

You tell the OP that he can always turf the employee and pay severance. Why pay severance if you have a policy in place - with proper documentation - that will allow you to terminate the employee with cause?

I know you're trying to help the OP but your advice is out-dated in today's IT/HR/SOX world.
 

punter

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spastar said:
One of the big issues for me is, I will have a very hard time replacing him. He is for the most part a good employee- minus the internet surfing at the wrong times. If I fire him I will be back logged with work and it will ultimately hurt me financially.
spastar said:
The difference is I can do my job while surfing the net… He can’t. My job requires me to stay at my desk- his does not…. and I'm the BOSS
I'm not quite sure I understand, but if he is doing a good job, and you need him, then just let him surf.
 

spastar

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Thanks for all the advise on how to run my business and how to manage my employees. Some of the advise was good.

Now back to the original question: Is there any way to eliminate the browser function with out eliminating the actual functionality of the internet.
 

OddSox

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May 3, 2006
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spastar said:
Thanks for all the advise on how to run my business and how to manage my employees. Some of the advise was good.

Now back to the original question: Is there any way to eliminate the browser function with out eliminating the actual functionality of the internet.
Sure, but the method depends on your particular situation, which I believe was explained way back when. It depends on what equipment you have, what employees you want to block from what service, and how much you're willing to spend.

If you don't know anything about this, then you need to hire a consultant who does...
 

Tower

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Dec 17, 2002
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Just get netnanny on his computer or all your office computers. Set up 'allowed sites' and no one in the company is allowed to go off course except the managers etc.

Most people have computers at home to surf on
 
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